AMY GOODMAN: I want to ask you about how the media's been covering Trump's racist attacks, and also the broader conversation about racism that's emerged. People were particularly enraged that CNN had Richard Spencer on, the avowed white supremacist, to talk about Trump's comments. In a news conference earlier this week, Congressmember Omar said, "This is the agenda of white nationalists, whether it is happening in chat rooms or it's happening on national TV." Professor Kendi, how can the media be anti-racist instead of complicit?
IBRAM X. KENDI: Well, I think the media should use words. You have words like "racist," which is a descriptive term, which describes people who are expressing racist ideas that certain racial groups are better or worse than others, and people who are supporting racist policies that yield racial inequity. And then you have terms like "anti-racist," which are people who express notions of anti-racist ideas, of racial equality, and support policies that yield racial equity.
And so, when reporters and journalists see people who are expressing racist ideas, they should describe that person as racist. When they see and hear people expressing anti-racist ideas, they should describe people who are expressing -- who are being anti-racist. It is critical for the media to use words, to use descriptive terms, in the way they use it in other ways. I mean, they're going to talk about this weekend as being very hot, as they should.
AMY GOODMAN: I also wanted to ask you about White House counselor Kellyanne Conway defending Trump's racist tweets this week. When a reporter asked her about it, she responded by asking him his ethnicity.
ANDREW FEINBERG: If the president was not telling these four congresswomen to return to their supposed countries of origin, to which countries was he referring?
KELLYANNE CONWAY: What's your ethnicity?
ANDREW FEINBERG: Why is that relevant to this?
KELLYANNE CONWAY: No, no, because I'm asking you a question. My ancestors are from Ireland and Italy.
ANDREW FEINBERG: Kellyanne, my own ethnicity is not relevant to the question I'm asking you. I am asking you a...
KELLYANNE CONWAY: No, no. It is, because you're asking about -- he said "originally."
AMY GOODMAN: So, that's Kellyanne Conway asking Andrew Feinberg, the White House reporter, his own ethnicity. Now, Ibram Kendi, you had an interesting -- you raise an interesting point. You're sort of flipping this around to the luxury of knowing where your family did come from, something many people, enslaved Americans, did not know, as they were forcibly taken from Africa and brought to this country.
IBRAM X. KENDI: Yeah, and I think that's what makes it particularly painful for descendants of enslaved Africans, because I think many of us of course know that our ancestors are from Africa, but we cannot necessarily pinpoint exactly where. When we think of Africa, we think of, of course, Mother Africa, and many of us imagine Africa as, to a certain extent, a place of origin. But at the same time, we can't pinpoint where. So, when you say "go back" to our country, it's hard for us to not respond, "Well, what country?" Even if we were to go back to Africa, where would we go? And I think that's what becomes -- it just sort of reminds us of the slave trade, of the slave trade that millions of people were not only killed, but separated from their ancestors against their will. And now they're saying to us, against their will -- against our will, to go back to our country.
AMY GOODMAN: I'm going to end with Eric Swalwell. He just pulled out as a presidential contender, the congressmember from California. But he went to the House floor on Tuesday, just ahead of the House vote to condemn Trump's attacks on the four Democratic congresswoman of color. He listed a number of Trump's past racist comments. And as he did so, several Republicans interrupted him.
REP. ERIC SWALWELL: We have an opportunity today to condemn or condone. Birtherism is racist. Saying a Mexican judge can't be fair because of his heritage is racist. Saying immigrants from Mexico are rapists is racist. Saying there were good people on both sides in Charlottesville is racist. Calling African countries [bleep]hole countries is racist. And telling four members of this body to go home is racist.
REP. DOUG COLLINS: Madam Speaker, Madam Speaker, point of order.
SPEAKER PRO TEMPORE DIANA DEGETTE: Gentleman will state his...
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