JUAN GONZALEZ: How does the U.S. compare to other countries in the world? I think most Americans would be shocked. I mean, we mentioned in the lede to this piece, 36th in water quality in the world? Talk about comparing it to other major advanced -- especially advanced industrial countries.
PHILIP ALSTON: Well, the United States is, of course, one of the very richest countries in the world. But all of the statistics put it almost at the bottom -- doesn't matter what it is. Whether it's child mortality rates, whether it's the longevity of adults, whether it's the degree of adequacy of healthcare, the United States is very close to the bottom on all of these. What's really surprising is that when I go to other countries, the big debate is that "We don't have the money. We can't afford to provide basic services to these people." And yet, in the United States, they've got a trillion or a trillion and a half to give to the very rich, but they also don't have any of the money to provide a basic lifestyle that is humane for 40 million Americans.
AMY GOODMAN: Professor Alston, you were in Alabama right around the time of the December 12th special election between Doug Jones and Roy Moore. And why were you talking about poverty at that time? Why did you see it as so significant, weighing in in this election?
PHILIP ALSTON: I didn't weigh in in the election. I was very careful not to do that.
AMY GOODMAN: No, why poverty weighs in.
PHILIP ALSTON: Oh, right. Well, I think that -- I mean, one of the best quotes I got during my two-week visit was from an official in West Virginia, where voting rates are extremely low. And I said, "Why is it that no one votes in West Virginia?" And the response was: "Well, you know, when people are very poor, they lose interest. They just don't believe there's any point." And, of course, one begins to wonder if that's actually a strategy, that you make people poor enough, you make them obsessed with working out where their next meal is going to come from, they're not going to vote, and so you can happily ignore them.
AMY GOODMAN: You talked about a massive sewage crisis in rural Alabama and also talked about meeting people there, like Pattie Mae Ansley McDonald, who told you about how her house was shot up by white neighbors when she voted in 1965 after the Voting Rights Act became law.
PHILIP ALSTON: Right. That was a very touching meeting. I was meeting with people who really are struggling to make it. But the main focus was actually on water and sanitation. What's shocking is that in a country like India today, there's a huge government campaign to try to get sewerage to all people, make it available. In Alabama and West Virginia, where I went, I asked state officials, "So, what's the coverage of the official sewerage system?" "I don't know." "Really? So, what plans" --
AMY GOODMAN: That's what they said to you, they didn't know.
PHILIP ALSTON: "So, what plans do you have then for extending the coverage, albeit slowly?" "Uh, none." "So, do you think people can live a decent life if they don't have access to sewerage, if the sewage is pouring out into the front garden, which is what I saw in a lot of these places?" "That's their problem. If they need it, they can buy it for themselves." In Alabama, where the soil --
AMY GOODMAN: The authorities said.
PHILIP ALSTON: Yeah. In Alabama, where the soil is very tough, it can cost up to $30,000 to put in your own septic system.
JUAN GONZALEZ: I wanted to ask you about Puerto Rico, which is grappling with a $74 billion debt and as much as $100 billion in storm damage. The Republican tax bill includes a 20 percent excise tax on goods produced there. This is Congresswoman Nydia Velazquez, originally from Puerto Rico, talking about that.
REP. NYDIA VELAZQUEZ: Now, with the potential passage of the Republican tax scam bill, Puerto Rico faces an economic hurricane. ... Under this bill, American subsidiaries operating in Puerto Rico will now face a 20 percent tax when they move their goods off the island. If this becomes law, you can expect to see more than 200,000 manufacturing jobs disappear from the island. And the government of Puerto Rico could lose one-third of its revenue.
JUAN GONZALEZ: You visited Puerto Rico during your trip. The idea that even with an unemployment rate that hovers around 16, 17 percent, depression levels, that there could be even greater unemployment as a result of this tax bill?
PHILIP ALSTON: Puerto Rico is getting what it deserves. In other words, you don't have any votes in the Congress, you don't get anything. There is just no willingness on the part of members of Congress to be seen to be giving anything to Puerto Rico. The result is, you've got extremely high levels of people on welfare, but those welfare payments [are] significantly lower than they are on the mainland. You've got a whole series of measures that are being proposed, in the tax bill and elsewhere. And you've got the PROMESA, the fiscal oversight board, poised to really impose a draconian austerity package. So, the situation is grim. But when you don't have democratic representation, it's very hard to defend yourself.
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