Broadcast 1/11/2015 at 16:20:00 (370 Listens, 241 Downloads, 4530 Itunes)
The Rob Kall Bottom Up Radio Show Podcast
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Ross A. Rosenberg, is a national expert in codependence, sex and love addiction, narcissism and borderline personality disorders. He is the owner of Clinical Care Consultants, a counseling center in the northern suburbs of Chicago and author of the book The Human Magnet Syndrome; Why We Love People WHo Hurt Us
Book Site: humanmagnetsyndrome.com/
Rough Interview Notes
Rob: Human Magnet syndrome-- tell us about that.
co-dependents always seem to be with narcissists
Rob: Any statistics on the different populations you write about and talk about in your video blog?
1-2% narcissistic personality disorder
emotional manipulators all have pathological narcissism,
I call them
Rob: So that's the connection between them all-- between Emotional manipulator, narcissist, borderline Personality disorder, sociopath, psychopath
Rob: so, on the one hand you have the co-dependent and on the other, you have the narcissist. Can you describe how the puzzle pieces fit together?
co-dependent finds themselves in relationships where they do all the care taking and the partner does almost none.
The pathological narcissists needs someone to take care of their needs while not reciprocating or being mutual.
Rob: this sure sounds like constituents and politicians--
it's the perfect dance
you absolutely need some amount of pathological narcissism to make it in today's politics
What about balanced people?
continuum of Self Theory
Caretakers would be eaten alive in politics.
healthy, balanced people cannot survive in an environment where self-centered, power grabbing and self promoting creates success.
We all want Mr Smith goes to Washington,
Rob: How does a healthy person survive in a world where you can't avoid narcissists
They learn to play that game
Rob: how does a healthy person deal with a pathological narcissist, say, at a job, where a new manager is brought in who is a narcissist.
Narcissists get angry when confronted
narcissists try to get into positions of power
Rob: How does a person who is working for a narcissist cope?
Observe, don't absorb technique.
When a narcissist gets you angry or upset, they have power over you.
By observing the narcissist" try to manipulate you, without letting them in emotionally, then you have control. Observe and disconnect emotionally and watch the narcissist manipulate you.
Best way to manage the situation is to not let the narcissist get you mad. Decide that they have no power over you.
A narcissist enjoys when you get upset.
Rob: You talk about Dysfunctional People and Dysfunctional relationships. Can you talk about that?
someone is dysfunction person either doesn't know they have a problem or knows and doesn't try to get help for it.
Dysfunctional relationship-- two people the way they interact, they are having problems and don't seek help.
Rob: Again, that sounds like politics:
When we learn about the mechanics, the systems of relationships--
Rob: Let's talk more about the politics aspect--
In politics there's a relationship. Someone has to elect the politician.
Rob; 90% of people are unhappy with congress- That sounds like a dysfunctional relationship to me.
let's talk about my book--
narcissists will always spot the other narcissist in the room.
Rob: I talk about how Republicans and Democrats are both corporatists
well, they're both narcissists.
When two narcissist interact they're projecting on each other.
Rob: Most voters seem to be codependent. They're in an abusive relationship with the politicians and don't do anything about it.
Why does a co-dependent stay with the alcoholic or pathological narcissist-- because they keep believing the excuses.
I am not saying that people who vote are co-dependent" but
Rob: So let's talk about co-dependency and how people become co-dependent
CDs and Ns have the same kind of parent-- at least on is a narcissist. If you are a child of that kind of parent you will never get unconditional love. if you are a child of a narcissist -- you are going to figure out how to make that child love yo-- and be pleasing, learning that love is conditional, and learning to repress your own needs" and get the child to take care of you, or, if you can't do that, you will be rejected, ridiculed, deprived, and you learn that the world is unsafe, you can't trust anyone and the only one who can take care of you is you and you are on the path to becoming a pathological narcissist.
Rob: so a co-dependent finds a narcissist and you get what you describe as "magnetic-like love force attraction"
Co-dependents are not going to be found to be attractive to a healthy person.
Rob: so you were in a family where there was a narcissist?
I always found m myself more comfortable and at ease when someone talked about themselves.
The cloud of euphoric love goes away and you end up with a narcissist.
Rob: So you were suffering in that situation and you got out and you no longer suffer?
A healthy person needs self confidence, need to heal the old wounds that keep bringing them to the dysfunctional relationship.
Rob: So what did you do to get out of the cycle
Get out o f the cyle of attachment trauma. Humans, even primates, need our parents to take care of us. That is what we call attachment trauma. To solve dependency-- people need to resolve the trauma that they experienced as a trial-- they learn early on that love equals taking care of others while sacrificing your own needs. If you learn that you are lovable when you take care of someone".
Rob: When someone changes what does it look like.
Narcissists-- you have to realize there's something wrong with you for you to get help. Narcissists are less likely to see the need for help.
Co-dependents are able to see that they need help.
they are repeating the narcissistic relationship with their narcissistic parent over and over again.
Rob: Does that mean that the shift on the continuum of self?
The more you learn to care for yourself"
Rob: How does a person recognize a person as being a narcissist?
They do not handle criticism or constructive feedback, they talk about themselves.
Rob: How about covert narcissists? How do you detect them?
the covert narcissist pretends to be CD, caring-- they project this image that is all manufactured, but behind the screen they are deeply narcissistic.
Eventually, they fail because their narcissism puts them in a situation where they can't hide anymore.
Narcissists want to be in relationships, want to be loved. Sociopaths and Psychopaths can't be in relationships. They are completely manipulative and incapable and doesn't care.
Rob: I was hoping you could talk m ore about borderlines.
Borderline Personality Disorder BPD
go from love to hate very easily
When they meet someone it's big, euphoric.
BPDs struggle with issues of abandonment.
They really do love you when they love you, probably more than any person can, but then they hurt you, then they go through this
Book: Stop Walking on Eggshells-- being in a relationship with a Borderline is walking in a minefield.
Rob: I would assume that borderlines don't see themselves as needing help.
Therapists avoid working with borderlines-- they replicate what they do in relationships.
There are therapies-- dialectical behavioral therapy-- works very well with borderlines.
Rob: It must take a very patient kind of therapist to work with borderlines.
Rob: are there different Varieties of co-dependents?
active and passive co-dependents
Passive-- like Edith Bunker
CDs can also be manipulative, dishonest, and keep pursuing people, like spouse of an alcoholic-- trying to control.
Rob: you've mentioned alcoholics as another population of narcissists
an addict behaves like a narcissist-- drug, gambling, etc. But you can't diagnose with longterm
Rob: You talk in the book about unconscious relationship factors
You play out the relationship template that you learned as a child-- be a human doing instead of a human being.
Rob: What is the first step to take if someone realizes that they are in one of the dysfunctional relationship?
Get help. Find a therapist.
Rob: Why do people continue with dysfunctional relationships if they know something is wrong?
Rob: Do co-dependents develop dysfunctional relationships with other people and organizations besides their mates,
Absolutely-- CD is generalized in all other relationships.
Rob: It almost sounds like co-dependents won't be tolerated by people who are balanced, in the middle of your continuum.
Rob: Why doesn't it work for a healthy person to be in a relationship with a co-dependent.
the healthy person is going to be repelled by the co-dependent person.
Rob: Where do corporations fit into this?
Absolutely-- narcissists know how to rise in corporations.
Rob: it seems like corporations function like narcissists.
Environments that " breed narcissists.
Ross Rosenberg's Counseling Center Site: clinicalcareconsultants.com
Sex Addiction Site: www.help4sexualaddiction.com/
Huffington Post Articles: www.huffingtonpost.com/ross"a"rosenberg/
Size: 32,150,832 -- 1 hrs, 6 min, 58 sec
Rob Kall is an award winning journalist, inventor, software architect, connector and visionary. His work and his writing have been featured in the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, CNN, ABC, the HuffingtonPost, Success, Discover and other media.
He is the author of The Bottom-up Revolution; Mastering the Emerging World of Connectivity scheduled for release May 22, 2019
He's given talks and workshops to Fortune 500 execs and national medical and psychological organizations, and pioneered first-of-their-kind conferences in Positive Psychology, Brain Science and Story. He hosts some of the world's smartest, most interesting and powerful people on his Bottom Up Radio Show, and founded and publishes one of the top Google- ranked progressive news and opinion sites, OpEdNews.com
more detailed bio:
Rob Kall has spent his adult life as an awakener and empowerer-- first in the field of biofeedback, inventing products, developing software and a music recording label, MuPsych, within the company he founded in 1978-- Futurehealth, and founding, organizing and running 3 conferences: Winter Brain, on Neurofeedback and consciousness, Optimal Functioning and Positive Psychology (a pioneer in the field of Positive Psychology, first presenting workshops on it in 1985) and Storycon Summit Meeting on the Art Science and Application of Story-- each the first of their kind. Then, when he found the process of raising people's consciousness and empowering them to take more control of their lives one person at a time was too slow, he founded Opednews.com-- which has been the top search result on Google for the terms liberal news and progressive opinion for several years. Rob began his Bottom-up Radio show, broadcast on WNJC 1360 AM to Metro Philly, also available on iTunes, covering the transition of our culture, business and world from predominantly Top-down (hierarchical, centralized, authoritarian, patriarchal, big) to bottom-up (egalitarian, local, interdependent, grassroots, archetypal feminine and small.) Recent long-term projects include a book, Bottom-up-- The Connection Revolution, debillionairizing the planet and the Psychopathy Defense and Optimization Project.