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Podcast    H4'ed 6/15/12

Deanna Zandt; author of "Share This! How You Will Change the World with Social Networking"

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Broadcast 6/15/2012 at 19:51:21 (23 Listens, 17 Downloads, 793 Itunes)
The Rob Kall Bottom Up Radio Show Podcast

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Deanna Zandt
Media Technologist and Author, "Share This!"
Deanna Zandt is a media technologist and the author of "Share This! How You Will Change the World with Social Networking" (Berrett-Koehler, June 2010). She is a consultant to key progressive media and advocacy organizations, and her clients have included The Ford Foundation, The Daily Beast/Newsweek, and Jim Hightower's Hightower Lowdown. She is a Research Fellow at the Center for Social Media at American University. Zandt specializes in social media, is a leading expert in women and technology, and is a frequent guest on CNN International, BBC Radio, Fox News and more. She works with groups to create and implement effective web strategies toward organizational goals of civic engagement and empowerment, and uses her background in linguistics, advertising, telecommunications and finance to complement her technical expertise. She has spoken at a number of conferences, including Netroots Nation, SXSW Interactive, Personal Democracy Forum, the National Conference on Media Reform, Facing Race, Web 2.0 Expo, Bioneers, America's Future Now (formerly "Take Back America"), Women Action & The Media, and provides beginner and advanced workshops both online and in person.

I connected with Deanna at the Personal Democracy Forum 2012 Conference-- Her talk was:
We started talking about that presentation, which was about the response to the Komen Foundation's anti Planned Parenthood "episode."  
Rough notes for and from the interivew

created a tumblr site to collect stories re Komen Foundation and planned parenthood-- traffic from Facebook, twitter and tumblr

How we think about power. 

Have been focused on Hierarchical power-- talk about top down vs bottom up organizing. 

Hierarchical power, Network power, 

Deanna Zandt


Don't Mess With Our Boobs

Susan G. Komen vs Planned Parenthood episode.

created Tumblr site "how planned parenthood saved me. 

Within a day or two Rachel Maddow was reading from it on her show. 

More than  half of it came before any major media mention-- came from Facebook, twitter, tumblr

IN the past we've been focused on traditional top down, hierarchical power. 

Deanne describes three kinds of power

then networked

vs hierarchical 

then adhoc

visualized below:

Hierarchical, the classic old, Top-down power CAN be overcome

Deanna: " What we're starting to see is networks are starting to replace dismantle and break apart hierarchies.  "

Komen was hierarchical power, with Planned Parenthood putting out calls. 

network pose with people activating on their own. People had an emotional connection to the work that planned parenthood does. PP has been effective at working with that relationship

Then there were ad hoc people who were moved by what was happening-- who spread news of defunding of PP to their own networks (I don't normally forward emails like this, but breast cancer is important to me. 

The power of the ad hoc was these people were able to reach beyond the choir. 

First we think that ad hoc power always needs to be transformed into network power. Not true. it actually ignores the power of the ad hoc to reach the unreachable. 

Networks are starting to wrap around hierarchies and starting to break them down altogether. 


People have this very linear way of thinking-- I have power and if we get together then We have power" but there's more".

Susan G. Komen fdtn decided not to fund Planned Parenthood-- 

There systems of power that can be in play at any given moment in political organizing on the web

Ad Hoc power--- comes together in response to the moment. 

Networked power-- people who have a shared identity and experience with one another and more solid relationship with one another-- related to relational power. 

Hierarchical power-- traditionally what we think of when we define power and the social structures around us--- generally a small number of people around us at the top

We talk about top down and bottom up power But this can be limiting. 

Ad hoc power gives us a chance to reach people who are not touched by traditional activism and can help us spread messages. 

We'd like to turn every person in an ad hoc moment into a solid relationship. 

people think of network power to get people together at the bottom of the pyramid so they can influence people at the top of the hierarchy. What we're starting to see is networks are starting to replace dismantle and break apart hierarchies. 

I would like to see people leave behind this  idea of going up and down and think about how we can get around and beat the system. Networks can do this. It's so much easier via the technology to have expertise and have influence. 

These models are not flat, they are very much 3-D. 

Mentions Germany's Pirate Party that uses a tool, Liquefying Democracy.

It's not just kicking out the people that are in power and replacing them with the people we like. If you look at that over the past 40 years, that hasn't been so successful in the US. 

Here is our opportunity for re-thinking these systems altogether. 

created a story site about Komen and Planned Parenthood on tumblr. 

Ended up on Rachel Maddow Show. 

Got more traffic from social sites like Facebook, twitter, etc, than from mainstream media. 

searchers in twitter-- 

seeing who was re-sharing off of that

had installed google analytics" and there are alternatives to google analytics-- 

also a great tool, which is very low cost metrics tool that can help people. 

Language that was used were largely women-- saying things like, "I'm not usually one to do this kind of stuff, but"" 

Largely, after they did their piece about planned parenthood, since they are not normally sharers, 

Rob: So, activating this ad hoc group of people who are not usually political users of social media-- is very powerful"

activating people who aren't usually political can be hard to do, but it can totally transform a campaign. 

Rob-- how do you wake up the boiling frog?

On the left we tend to think is if we just give people the facts, the facts will set them free. 

Caine's Arcade 

 11 minute viral video

The way that the story is told, every single one of us who watches that video sees ourself in Caine. Here's an opportunity to reclaim that moment, when we were a kid. 

If we can think about how we tell our stories designed in a way that actually touch us--- that's what we need to be doing.  -- organization in Oakland, bringing women's voices and stories back into the reproductive justice movement-- about abortion-- and they talk about ethical storytelling, teaching people how to have agency with their stories. 

Agency is really important to consider when talking about storytelling and emotional connection. What was so problematic about the Coney 2012 about the child soldiers in Uganda-- it was a white person talking to a white child about something in africa. And they were trying to use storytelling in a way was that kind of unethical-- Rwandans were not involved, it was done in this white savior kind of way. A better way to consider using story is when people have agency, when people have informed control and decision making power when their stories are used in a political context. 

If you're enabling people to have agency

Book: Share This; How You Will Change the World with Social Networking

Wanted to talk about how our individual participation is changing our public discourse. Over the last 1000s of years, there have been gatekeepers who mediate. Social media let us share our experiences and stories without gatekeepers. When we do that we infuse them with our values and what's important to us. 

Wrote the book to inspire people to share their own stories".

Rob: What did you base your experience on?

Being a nerd my whole life. I got my first computer in 1982 at age 7.

Rob: How have things changed since the book came out in 2010?

People who participate in social networks are more likely to participate in the offline world"

Rob: In a chapter on Trust, you talk about organic and institutional authority.

organic authority, evolving over time-- people can develop and grow their own authority based on what they share in the world. 

It isn't a pure meritocracy on line. What our job is to go out and discover our community. I believe communities are discovered and not built. 

If you haven't built and worked on the relationships that are going to support that, it's not going to go anywhere. 

Rob: What's your connection with story?

Rob: You're doing consulting on strategy

I have a series of intensive bootcamp workshops in Chicago, maybe DC and New York-- where people can a really intense understanding of social media and tools and metrics.

Helping people their organizational voice on line and which tools to use and focus on. 

I used to do strategy and implementation on campaigns. I'm doing less implementation and more big picture thinking-- I'm of the school of teach


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Rob Kall Social Media Pages: Facebook page url on login Profile not filled in       Twitter page url on login Profile not filled in       Linkedin page url on login Profile not filled in       Instagram page url on login Profile not filled in

Rob Kall is an award winning journalist, inventor, software architect, connector and visionary. His work and his writing have been featured in the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, CNN, ABC, the HuffingtonPost, Success, Discover and other media. 

Check out his platform at

He is the author of The Bottom-up Revolution; Mastering the Emerging World of Connectivity  

He's given talks and workshops to Fortune 500 execs and national medical and psychological organizations, and pioneered first-of-their-kind conferences in Positive Psychology, Brain Science and Story. He hosts some of the world's smartest, most interesting and powerful people on his Bottom Up Radio Show, and founded and publishes one of the top Google- ranked progressive news and opinion sites,

more detailed bio: 

Rob Kall has spent his adult life as an awakener and empowerer-- first in the field of biofeedback, inventing products, developing software and a music recording label, MuPsych, within the company he founded in 1978-- Futurehealth, and founding, organizing and running 3 conferences: Winter Brain, on Neurofeedback and consciousness, Optimal Functioning and Positive Psychology (a pioneer in the field of Positive Psychology, first presenting workshops on it in 1985) and Storycon Summit Meeting on the Art Science and Application of Story-- each the first of their kind.  Then, when he found the process of raising people's consciousness and empowering them to take more control of their lives  one person at a time was too slow, he founded which has been the top search result on Google for the terms liberal news and progressive opinion for several years. Rob began his Bottom-up Radio show, broadcast on WNJC 1360 AM to Metro Philly, also available on iTunes, covering the transition of our culture, business and world from predominantly Top-down (hierarchical, centralized, authoritarian, patriarchal, big)  to bottom-up (egalitarian, local, interdependent, grassroots, archetypal feminine and small.) Recent long-term projects include a book, Bottom-up-- The Connection Revolution, debillionairizing the planet and the Psychopathy Defense and Optimization (more...)

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