|Copyright © Rob Kall, All Rights Reserved. Do not duplicate or post on youtube or other sites without express permission. Creative commons permissions for this site do not apply to audio content or transcripts of audio content.|
Occupy Wall Street... De-centralized, bottom up democratic, no leaders...
I did a film, Plunder, the crime of our Time, have written three books and did two films on this.
Went to Zuccoti Park with Jesse Jackson yesterday. The night before Jackson talked NYPD out of tearing down the medical tent.
Dr. King was working on this poor people's campaign, which came to fruition a year after his death. They were going to do an occupation of the Mall in DC, called ressurection city.
There were also Hoovervilles, which were protesting against the depression and the lack of support for them.
They had a bloombergville here in NY. He didn't like it.
Occupy Wall Street has taken it to a whole new level. It's something that's very exciting.
Was talking to Andrew Young, King's aide. Bull Connors' actions, brutalizing demonstrators, helped stimulate sympathy for people.
Donny Deutch mentioned that this movement needs a Kent State moment.
We're in a situation where there's a l ot of escalating tension.
History has its own way of happening, When four students sat down at a greensboro NC lunch counter, no-one saw that it would be historic. The actions of a few people can lead to a tremendous reaction.
anti-semitism-- right wing has been desperate to find any issue they could to discredit this thing. The more they attack, the more desperate they seem.
Tea Party founder Karl Denninger is now supporting Occupy Wall Street.
The Republicans want the public to blame the government for everything that's wrong. Of course they don't acknowledge that they've been a part of the government and Bush ran the economy down for eight years.
They are focused in this monomaniacal way on this (attacking government and taxes.)
"Cain's function was really to knock out Rick Perry-- but last night the whole republican team ganged up on him.
What we've learned in t he last few years is that power does not reside in the white house or political offices because he's up against entrenched interest groups, wall street, the mlitary complex " he's fighting for his political life. But anybody else gets into office the same thing is going to happen.
The problems are structural. They're built into the whole system-- more and more economic inequality, fewer jobs, outsourcing...
it's better to have this calculated ambiguity.
Malcolm X was asked how many muslims there were. He replied, "Those that say don't know. Those that know don't say."
They're fighting for their selves for their rights, that's what gives it a moral force.
Unions are paying or food down in Zuccoti park--
Once you enunciate an issue, you give something for people to say "no" to so you end up with people fighting among themselves. At the same time there's a lot of informed discussion taking place in the park, a lot of debate...
My experience in watching movements develop is sometimes things develop in ways you can't predict-- in the sixties there was rock and roll, the youth culture, the hippies became yippies. none of this was predictable, but it evolved.
Agents Provocateurs-- there's a truck recording everything, audio and video, opening up files-- there's the NYPD anti-terrorism dept that's spent a billion dollars, working with the CIA...
As long as they (OWS) continues to have public support, I don't think the police are going to move on them .
Rob: It's just a matter of time until a cop in plain clothes punches a cop in uniform.
Danny; or a crazy goes postal.
Rob: OWS has raised over $300,000 online, not including cash donations or donations of goods and food. The food is gourmet vegetarian. OWS offered to provide funds to help Occupy Trenton replace some of the computer goods police took.
it's an example of the kind of society we might want to live in.
Danny: Like the anarchist communities in Spain and Tahrir square. The amazing thing is it seems to be working. People are not being talked down to.
if there were money, where would it go to further the movement.
Danny, "I was told someone offered a lot of money and they turned it down. There are a lot of puristic attitudes. They don't want to be bought or co-opted. The decisions have to be made by the people's assembly. There's a newspaper coming out. There's a radio station down there as well. A lot of TV coverage, every independent filmaker. It's developed a visibility instantly that's a part of this media culture. There's a live stream so you don't have to rely on the mainstream, lame brain media That's part of what makes it exciting.
This message is getting out. The people being interviewed are smart. There's a lot of sympathy for what they are saying.
I'm worried about what happens when ti gets really cold. The city has not made it any either, without any portapotties.
Rob: Can the movement evolve to a point where people are not sleeping at public areas?
Danny: Having the people there keeps the idea of an encampment going. This is something that has made them all defensive.
Today one of the newspapers in NY criticized OWS because all these celebrities who are part of the 1% were there.
Jesse Jackson was very well received and people had a lot of respect for him.
We do live in a celebrity culture. If celebrities are involved, more people are likely to come. I think what we're seeing is something really unique in my experience and really overdue. I've been calling for
Rob: How did it feel doing the human mic?
it's very unique and people respect.
Anybody can go up there and say "mic check." But if you want to give a lecture it's harder to do it in that form.
We're all impressed by the dedication of the people, all concerned abou the lack of specificity. But the park, in the last week is more organized, there's a code of conduct-- it's getting more savvy and sophisticated. Is it going to be allowed to remain there.
The idea that people against capitalism are mouthing off against capitalism in the center of capitalism upsets people.
The police have been given millions from Morgan Stanley. Commanders set the tone of counterproductive policing that will backfire on them. Some police are making $100,000 because of overtime.
Police are reacting to people going to their turf.
kids are not really baiting or attacking cops.
Infrastructure-- how it is working, how is it working-- that to me is the most interesting.
people are in these work groups that are very decentralized, sharing of responsibilities.
There's this spirit of this is our thing, we want to preserve it, we want it to be a livable space, we want it to be comfortable. it's not easy. there's no bathrooms. It's a challenge. people are willing to put up with it They believe in it.
What will happen in the next week or two?
a lot of people don't like it. The media don't like it because there's no one spokesman.
There's a lot of people who find it bothersome and they don't want it to end.
You can do a community without hierarchy.
lack of hierarchy encourages more participation, involvement, identification, community
King talked about beloved community.
People are taking initiiatives
It's done in a collective manner. There's a mix of a lack of hierarchy combined
This is not an organization. This is a movement. There's a difference between a movement and an organizations. Movements tend to grow and evolve. Organizations tend to solidify. organizations tend to calcify, running things in a top-down way.
Alot of people are not into
Announcement that there's going to be a national convention in 2012.
There's something fragile about this also. People get burned out. People are p utting their lives on hold. They have rent to pay, etc. Will they have to start paying the organizers?
Danny cites a quote from his blog:
We are not aimless; we simply speak a different language -- a language of mutual respect, participation, self-management, and action. We make our demands in this language that screams we are here for the long-run, that our goal is not merely reform, that our vision is deep and radical, that we will not be bought off or co-opted, and that we are prepared to struggle in order to win not only those gains we can pronounce not but also those we can't even fully articulate yet".
Yotam Marom, OWS activist, October 13, 2011
From A new Essay By Bill Bowles (WilliamBowles.info) in London called "Occupy the World Comrades:"
"The Middle Class Proletariat -- The middle classes could become a revolutionary class, taking the role envisaged for the proletariat by Marx. The globalization of labor markets and reducing levels of national welfare provision and employment could reduce peoples' attachment to particular states. The growing gap between themselves and a small number of highly visible super-rich individuals might fuel disillusion with meritocracy, while the growing urban under-classes are likely to pose an increasing threat to social order and stability, as the burden of acquired debt and the failure of pension provision begins to bite. Faced by these twin challenges, the world's middle-classes might unite, using access to knowledge, resources and skills to shape transnational processes in their own class interest." -- "UK Ministry of Defence report, The DCDC Global Strategic Trends Programme 2007-2036' (Third Edition) p.96, March 2007
Before all this happened, the defense Dept in England produced this. Expect to see more of this.
Danny's email is firstname.lastname@example.org
Size: 30,957,850 -- 1 hrs, 5 min, 0 sec