Remember what the French did to their "collaborators" after WW2?They did everything but burn them at the stake.
Forgive the hyperbole, but this American is starting to smell blood.Impeachment, hell. IMPRISONMENT for the rest of their hateful, neo-Nazi lives; how about that?
Are you listening, neocon cabal?Yes, you, you un-American filth who have NEVER been loyal to the United States of America, you were/are so obsessed with licking the jack boots of Israel's lunatic fringe right wing.
And what about our "press"?You know, that army of traitors who sold their souls for far less than 30 pieces of silver.Breaking the back of these corporate propaganda machines should be our moral imperative.The only problem is that there are so many cockroaches it's going to be hard to decide which one to step on first.
About 9/11 there are no words.Most of the planet is now totally convinced it was an "inside job", so these Bush/Republican traitors should be treated according to their crime (which doesn't mean "imprisonment").Book after book and monograph after monograph and picture after picture PROVE that the neocon party line is something straight of the German 3rd Reich.And let's not drift off into thinking the Bushivicks were simply inept.No, no, no, it goes far deeper than that, and according to all of the polls (national and international), the human race now believes these Bush/Republican monsters actively facilitated the event.You know, a little greasing of the wheels with vampire elite money and turning the other way about EVERYTHING (e.g., learning to fly in Florida -- good name of a song), and using intelligence organizations (not just ours!) not to protect our beloved Democratic Republic, but to destroy it utterly.Nothing like crooked cops in high places in more than one country to massacre the American Dream.
And what should we do with people who defecate on our Constitution and Bill of Rights at every opportunity?Bush calls it a "piece of paper".Only an evil insect would think that.Or a literal anti-Christ.The point is these murderous psychopaths are contemptuous of laws, constitutions, and most of all "morality." But humans without morality are evil incarnate, and evil is a 12 gage shotgun aimed at the bleeding heart of America.We've already taken several hits, but perhaps for all the doubters, there really is a Loving God, because we are still standing and keeping the moral faith to the end.Tiny Tim was right, God Bless us all every one.
We could go tragically on and on, but the moral is that these monsters of evil (most of all, the vampire rich), MUST NOT BE ENDURED, and if rationality and morality are reborn in 2008, we must not be tolerant of these mountainous historical evils.
Conclusion:these people must be punished (yes, that's the word), and they must be punished to the limit of justice.
Politics is a meaningless game invented by the 0.5% vampire rich to manipulate the human race into cattle pens and hamburger factories, but THIS time we may be able to exert our will in spite of Hillary Clinton, the DLC and their fascist Bush Republican counterparts.
THIS time we may be able to go all the way with the wheels of justice, so for God's sake, let's not lose our nerve and get forgiving and forgetting.The Clinton's, of course, will want to do that after they've been swept into impotency.And while we at it, we shouldn't be forgetting and forgiving of the DLC and the Clintons.These people must be dealt with against the background of what they did and are still desperately trying to keep doing to America.
Just keep remembering the French and their WW2 collaborators.They weren't forgiving or forgetting.
We must never forget EVEN A DAY of these last 7 to 8 years.This will keep us focused on how to deal with these devils from hell.
Have you recently been to the town of Bagnolo and visited the family palace and castle and spent your nights there reading far too many of the Bagnolo poetic family curses? This post is purely Apocalyptic. Whomever the writer of John's Apocalypse was, he must be doffing his hood to Bill Epler this day.
You are right, but these Nazi's are even now, facing a timeless horror from which they will never emerge. The Bushite solution is to kill and destroy, trust me Bill, Trust me mes ami, for the life of luxury they seek, for the hate they purvey, for the suffering they inflict our notions of Hell do not begin to suffice.
I will tell you Bill, though you may know, there is nothing on this planet to compare with what they are facing. When they hear that the scorn and laugh because they truly do not believe, but even now, as we write, there is being prepared fro them an eternity of far worse things than we can imagine.
There is a place and I have seen it, far away but a physical place in a Universe attached to this one, but with a less populated with stars and planets, where what their prisoners and victims will be their masters, and they will never die, over and over, and over for as long as this Universe exists, they will suffer what their victims have suffered .
Starting with David Rockafeller and moving on down the line to the current Faux Religious Political Military Medical Industrial Complex, worldwide, their screams will shatter the air and die in the atmosphere of the world that each of their evils has metaphysically created, stone by stone.
They will laugh saying our comments are impotent as they laugh all the way to the bank of Oil funds, but they have sown their own eternal destruction. But nothing we could do to them on earth will suffice for their crimes. Worse are those who enabled them: the apathetic, the media, the wealthy who stayed out of it, the 60% of single, working women who failed to vote, the idiots whose days are spent ravaging the mall shopping for ringtones, Prada and Gucci, the fools who voted for Nader and Nader himself. Woe is those guys.
Wonderful piece, but despite it, I think to Obamaites have a far different agenda, but I hope I am wrong. we can put our faith only in the Universal Power, there are no more FDR's, or DeGaule's.
The purge will ravage most of the corporations on the planet, Bill, an dour sources of power, oil, electric, gas, will all be rendered inoperative and no one will know why. The huge buildings and stadia will be infested with Jungle growth and here, the world will start over. Anyway, the cereal I ate this AM my have come from a backyard in Big Sur.
by
Professor Emeritus Peter Bagnolo (144 articles, 1 quicklinks, 95 diaries, 1220 comments)
on Saturday, April 12, 2008 at 7:10:52 AM
I have never been so amazed at the language used. However, I believe your zealous need for blood or imprisionment isn't what we need. We need to prevent this from ever happening again, by removing those in power from power and electing good honest folks. As for punishment, vengence is mine saeth the Lord whom you claim to believe in. The Lord, or your Lord, also says.unto ceasar...you know the rest. My point, you may not know what part this has to play. Let those who will, do it. But don't root for an angry mob.
by
Dody Bush (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 2 comments)
on Saturday, April 12, 2008 at 9:01:07 AM
Justice isn't (or doesn't have to be) vengence. To the contrary, it's more like exercise and eating healthy food. It's that without with a nation is sick or dying. It's the "moral imperative". The ESSENCE of the American Constitution is about human justice and it has contempt for views which are tolerat of crime and cruelty. It's like being tolerant of organized crime (remember J Edgar?). When you do things like that the "criminal element" takes over EVERYTHING like a cancer -- and you don't make a cancer go away (e.g., the Israeli/Palestinian conflict) by saying "please".
by
W. Christopher Epler (Bill) (202 articles, 44 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 438 comments)
on Saturday, April 12, 2008 at 12:03:16 PM
The nearest cockroach works for me. I know this piece was intense, but dear God these last 8 years have been an absolute horror. One can only bear so much without expressing your pain and rage. Justice, justice, justice.
Bill
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W. Christopher Epler (Bill) (202 articles, 44 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 438 comments)
on Saturday, April 12, 2008 at 9:42:57 AM
I think this post runs counter to the tone of the Obama campaign.
"IF" Obama becomes president will largely depend on a LOT of moderate support. Obama's success so far has been based on his ability to reach out to the right, left, middle, and first-time voters.
Your post assumes Obama is far more left-leaning, suggesting that if he won, the far left would suddenly have the political capital to start punishing the NeoCons, balance the wealth distribution and regulate the press (among other things).
This kind of talk will be used against Obama in the election by the right, the press and the rich, to prevent him from becoming the next president. They'd use your words to smear him. Obama has given no indication he'd pursue impeachment or criminal prosecution of NeoCons, and he's never used such an angry tone as we see here, for example calling the rich "vampires" or Bush the antichrist. If you think this will help Obama win, you forget many people you share this country with.
Much of your frustration is well documented and justified, but the US is composed of less then 1/3 leaning left, less then 1/3 leaning right and a majority somewhere in the middle. An Obama win would NOT be a pure left wing victory and would mean many painful compromises on all sides. He would have to represent all 300 million Americans, not just angry liberals.
I suggest we calmly do what we can to help Obama win first, building bridges and welcoming former Bush voters to unite for a common good. Only after he is the president, would be the time to make the case that the DOJ should prosecute NeoCons, and even then, name-calling would only polarize the debate. With all the evidence available already, insults are not necessary. Ideally, justice should not be personal and I hope the next generation of Americans hold higher moral ground then the current angry, polarized one.
by
Gustav Wynn (47 articles, 33 quicklinks, 5 diaries, 224 comments)
on Saturday, April 12, 2008 at 10:01:52 AM
Alas, I take your point. But hopefully just putting into words the infinitely justified moral outrage will push the Obama bunch closer to post-Bush/fascist justice. My fear is that if the dems win, we'll slide back to DLC type business as usual and nothing wil be undone. That's the key word, we have to UNDO what these monsters have done and we will never do that if we suck our moral thumbs and settle for "oh well". This is NOT the time for "oh well".
Bill
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W. Christopher Epler (Bill) (202 articles, 44 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 438 comments)
on Saturday, April 12, 2008 at 11:23:31 AM
So Madame DeFarge is alive and well and in the body of Bill Epler.....
By all means let us light torches, sharpen stakes and prepare for the coming slaughter, however symbolic it might be meant. The real pity, Bill, is when you discover, should the course of events bring you the 'victory' you seek, that you have won nothing at all....
by
ardee D. (6 articles, 4 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 2388 comments)
on Saturday, April 12, 2008 at 10:28:51 AM
I don't always say what I want to say clearly enough. I really don't want to think "violoence", I want to think "justice". That's all. Just God given justice. I confess it's hard to talk about this without 8 years of Earth & America rape and murder staring me in the face. It's hard to talk about monsters as if they really aren't monsters. Justice seeking (and yes, with no holds barred) is NOT being a clone of a monster. And how tragic that DEMANDING LEGITIMATE JUSTICE can be heard as "over reacting"! Sigh.
Bill
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W. Christopher Epler (Bill) (202 articles, 44 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 438 comments)
on Saturday, April 12, 2008 at 11:29:52 AM
That would mean courts and proper procedure and testimony given truthfully and without rancor. What your article posits, with its overweaning anger and thirst for blood, is simply not justice but vengeance.
To extend the argument for "justice" one might consider how we might administer such considering there are currently no good guys in our government. If you believe justice will come from either of the current democratci candidates winning the White House, or from the Democratic party winning a greater majority in the legislature, well, sorry but not a chance.
by
ardee D. (6 articles, 4 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 2388 comments)
on Saturday, April 12, 2008 at 7:08:15 PM
Even Jesus Christ didn't show "magnaminity" to the money changers. We need to do likewise.
It's not pathology to demand justice for monsters. It's pathology if you don't. After 8 years of UNDER reacting, it's time to be true to our Constitution. That's all that's required.
by
W. Christopher Epler (Bill) (202 articles, 44 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 438 comments)
on Saturday, April 12, 2008 at 11:36:56 AM
You are saying that no matter how great the crimes -- whether they include mass murder, initiating a war based on lies, corrupt cronyism on a historic scale, torture, stealing elections, etc etc -- that one should simply "turn the other cheek" to all evidence of wrong-doing?
The Constitution itself specifies a procedure for impeachment --a procedure clearly intended for use in cases where the powers of high office are egregiously abused, & the citizenry thereby harmed. Your suggestion that forgiveness & magnanimity are always the way to proceed is at odds with the Constitution.
by
Richard Mynick (2 articles, 3 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 1026 comments)
on Saturday, April 12, 2008 at 2:00:44 PM
This BS OF moderation in the sight of atrocities is incomprehensible, it is exactly what the people of Germany gave Hitler in response to his evil and it is exactly why we are in this pickle today, too damned many people, alibiing their fear of just actions with a Façade of false moderation.
Maybe the traitors in Washington and in Industry, need to be taught that God-hating is displayed by, contempt for fellow beings, and extreme sadistic violence just begging for Justice. The Bushites are crying for IMPEACHMENT by their very actions. Only a coward when faced with just a portion of the enormity of their crimes replies with the provocative, "SO?" That alone should have been greeted by a slap in Cheney's slimy, cowardly, mouth.
If that fruitcake, shotgun toting, killer of domestic animals, torturer of crows and men, is not a traitor then we ought to raise General Benedict Arnold to sainthood and open the doors of all the prisons and release those incarcerated, for there rests nowhere in any American prison anyone who has murdered 1.5 million people, defecated on the Constitution and Bill of Rights, caused millions unemployment, withheld healthcare from tens of millions and destroyed the economy of two nations. And then stuck in right in the face of those whose money he has stolen to do it. If you are not moved to emotion by his atrocities, then you are ill-informed about the nature of his having blown $8.9 trillion dollars of your money, which your descendents will be paying off for the next 375 years-if you doubt that, do the math. If he is ever convicted, I would suggest that we give him an alternative choice, if that craven, pig, Cheney agrees to a duel with the first American citizens to challenge him, on the streets of NY, which the traitor bombed with airplanes, if he wins he can go free.
Better still dueling is legal in Uruguay, I am sure that many American patriots would pay for his ticket there and meet him there now. It bwould be a sell-out on ESPN! Box seats would cost a fortune, all to go to the poor.
Cheney is all ready to renounce his citizenship anyway, desert and move to Dubai anyway, where his new home is being furnished as we read this article and Bush has set up a homestead which is a replica of Crawford in South America, if a Liberal gets elected.
Remember, though Bill, Democrats passed on everything the anti-Christ they asked for, so I doubt you will see any Undoing parties.
I am glad you wrote this and I am going to publish a an email I sent to Obama asking him how he stood on a number of issues, two weeks ago to which I have had no reply.
I say make dueling Legal, let us have the Scaramouch Legacy be fulfilled. To quote a once Liberal Democrat, who rose to President of the NRA, out of disgust for the Dems lack of Liberal action and their war on Viet Nam, "I'll give up my gun when you pry it from my cold dead hands."
LaFarge may be a step overboard but Epler is not. Enraged by the horrors of the last 8 years, he has vented harmless, honest anger and cries for justice. If one has no soulful emotions, that one is near to dead.
No personal offense meant to anyone of our allies or those who commented, because I am sure you are all good haters of evil.
by
Professor Emeritus Peter Bagnolo (144 articles, 1 quicklinks, 95 diaries, 1220 comments)
on Saturday, April 12, 2008 at 1:02:18 PM
Democracy CANNOT afford to allow the Bush Crime Family to es
Democracy CANNOT afford to allow the Bush Crime Family to escape.
We let Nixon escape justice and got Iran Contra.
We let Reagan and Bush I escape Justice and got a judicial Coup-de-tat and the first INSTALLED 'president' in our history and the beginnings of Fascism in this country
We let Bush II and the judicial Coup escape justice and got 9-11, invasion and occupation of Iraq, endless war, the destruction of Democracy, the Constitution, our Economy, our privacy, and our Military, possibly Treason committed in the oval office, war crimes committed by the President and his staff and a list of additional crimes too long to continue here.
We cannot keep making this same mistake over and over!
The ONLY way we can take our Nation back is to enforce the Rule of law by trial of EVERY ONE responsible for the destruction of this country and, if guilty assure they see serious jail time or......
by
Phred42 (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 14 comments)
on Saturday, April 12, 2008 at 1:18:46 PM
Bless you. I'm practically sobbing in agreement. I LOVE my country and I KNOW the TV sitcom enablers will find hundreds of ways to literally "justify" these 8 years of horror so as not to have to change their bloody Duh-brained TV channels. Why? How easy! Because they themselves are living in a 100% sitcom reality. What's a sitcom reality? One where people go "oh well" at assassinations, the infinite treasons of 9/11, a masacured Bill of Rights and Constitution, a greater percentage transfer of weath in a fixed time period in all of American history, stolen election after stolen election (all PROVEN by the international standard of election fraud -- significant discrepancies between talled results and the exist polls), money cow oil wars fought with our cannon fodder children, astronomical tax breaks for multi millionaires and billionaires, a raped and murderd planet (our only one!)and on and on and on . . .
And for ALL THIS we're supposed to "turn the other way" and say "boys will be boys" or God knows what other dipstick rationalization for EIGHT YEARS OF HORROR.
So, thank you my in touch with reality commentator. 100% agreement! We can't make that mistake again. This is almost certainly our last chance to stand up to satanic evil. If we go "oh well" again, it's game over. Even God will think we're so suicidally stupied, he'll probably just think, "oh to hell with humans". You can't be THAT stupid and cowardly and still be a child of God. I wanted "hearts", not androids."
And if there IS a God and he doesn't think that, then he thinks something a thousand times worse.
by
W. Christopher Epler (Bill) (202 articles, 44 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 438 comments)
on Saturday, April 12, 2008 at 2:10:04 PM
I Have told Professor Bagnolo that even under an eye for an eye justice, eternity in Hell would be a grossly disproportionate for any amount of finite evil that a finite being could commit, although he pretended to not understand me. I am glad that I do not live in a universe in which your EVERLASTING TORTURER exists. The Christian-Jewish-Islamic-Zoroastrian God is just the ancient oriental despot written large. A Despot who is imagined to have an EVERLASTING TORTURE CHAMBER instead of a mere, finite earthly torture chamber!
Second, if any sort of omnipotent, just God existed, He would have intervened long before. He would not have allowed Bush-Cheney and the neo cons to steal the 2000 election. He would not have permitted the attack on the World Trade Center and the murder of 3000 people. In fact, he would not have permitted any evil to exist in the universe at all. We cannot depend on any imaginary God to get us out of this mess. We will have to do it ourselves.
I do agree with Bill Epler that the criminals responsible for the stolen elections, 9/11, the assault on the Constitution, and the war crime of invading Iraq should be punished. Life in prison without parole is the appropriate penalty. Although you indicate that you advocate the death penalty for them, and I would agree with you if it were not for the probability of executing innocent people, the percentage of people on death row who were subsequently exonerated is in the single digits. That percentage is too large to accept. And the conditions in our prisons violate human rights law. But life without parole in a humane prison is the appropriate penalty.
And when you advocate going after the news media responsible for covering up 9/11. remember that the Constitution mandates freedom of speech. Only if you can prove that a member of the press KNEW about 9/11 and the stolen elections and was consciously covering them up will legal penalties be appropriate.
I do not want to replace the society in which Bush-Cheney and the neo cons could commit their many crimes with a society in the midst of a witch hunt. Punishment of ALL the guilty after a fair trial is necessary but nothing more.
Robert Halfhill
by
rhalfhill (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 257 comments)
on Saturday, April 12, 2008 at 6:18:59 PM
I remember walking to jr. high school and talking with my friend about ideas for how to punish Eichman. Slowly dripping acid was discussed.
We know, from Bob Parry's writings, that Bill Clinton, by failing to prosecute Bush Sr., enabled Dubya to run for the presidency. If Bush Sr. had even been prosecuted, the Bush name would have been tainted.
Another questions is, do Hillary or Obama intend to inherit the obscene new range of presidential powers that Bush grabbed.
The idea that we turn the other cheeck is pathetic, stupid nonsense. Consider the source a newbie who quotes the bible WAY too much.
I'm with you Chris. The only suitable punishment would entail solitary confinement with no communication with the outside world. No torture, but no benefits from all the criminal actions. And make the punishment for life-- no easy escape by execution. Oh... one more thing. I've been saying for years that both Bush and Cheney should each share a cell with a six foot four gay biker.
by
Rob Kall (728 articles, 3775 quicklinks, 311 diaries, 1521 comments)
on Saturday, April 12, 2008 at 7:03:24 PM
As always, if a dialogue gets going on this site, I learn more than I wanted to share in the first place. Yes, yes, yes, life imprisonment is the proper response to these filth. God know, there's been too much killing already, so let's just get the the legal bottom of these last 8 years and LOCK THEM UP (and throw away the key).
One thing is certain. If we "oh well" away the horrors and treachery of these un American monsters (to me, they really ARE monsters), they have won everything. What better environment for neocon traitors and murders than one in which most of the public just doesn't want to be bothered. Remember THAT'S EXACTLY HOW HITLER CAME TO POWER. From deadbeats come devils. No deadbeats, no devils.
by
W. Christopher Epler (Bill) (202 articles, 44 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 438 comments)
on Saturday, April 12, 2008 at 7:24:05 PM
Mr. Kall, I find your comments in this post absolutely offensive on many levels.
If you knew anything about prison rape, you'd know that it is not necessarily, nor even mostly, committed by homosexuals. It is something called "situational homosexuality" and is not at all related to actual homosexuality. In fact, it is often used against homosexual inmates. And you propose this as a punishment. Or, were you joking? In which case it is even more offensive!
But more than that, to use an anti-gay stereotype is beneath contempt. Especially on a site which calls itself progresive. Is this what we have come to? That we use anything and everything to express our anger? No matter who it hurts or demeans? No matter how it pulls down the progressive movement?
As a gay man, I find your attitude in this post to be far less than I expect of someone who professes to be a progressive. It's appalling.
I also find your lack of regard for the Constitution to be alarming. Our Constitution not only calls for due process under the law for everyone (no matter how offended you may be by their actions) but it also prohibits cruel and unusual punishment. Or, is it OK to mete out cruel and unusual punishment when you just don't like the other guy, or if the other guy is seen as some kind of serious threat. (Isn't that why the administration sanctioned torture?)
Are you advocating that progressives become that which we have so long been protesting against?
by
fou (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 88 comments)
on Sunday, April 13, 2008 at 12:18:14 AM
