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July 5, 2007 at 15:20:46

A Voice crying in the wilderness . . .

by W. Christopher Epler (Bill)     Page 1 of 2 page(s)

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A voice crying in the wilderness . . .

*****************************************************************

The one (and only) good thing to come from the Bush/Republican/DLC horror show of the last 7 years is that everyone on the planet now knows America is a textbook Dictatorship of the Rich.

Some things in life are so ultimate and terrifying they are not admitted into human consciousness. Death is probably the number one reality which each of us is pretending happens only to the other guy.

But the funny thing about denial is that you have to know what to deny. Denial of death, for example, doesn't "save us" from death; it's much more subtle than that. It's really a kind of double pretending. First we pretend we're not going to die, and then we pretend we're not pretending that we're not going to die.

Indeed, death for Freud was the "reality principle", i.e., not to come to terms with death is not to come to terms with reality itself. However, the heart of this writer feels that death is not the number one repression of our species.

No, our NUMBER ONE repression is the unimaginable agony and sorrow of the human condition. I think (please indulge the first person pronoun -- it's just a semantic convenience) if we opened our hearts to the suffering in, say Africa, our spirits would be burned to a cinder. God in heaven, those diseased and starving children and the monstrous scourge of aids (for openers) is a tsunami of misery that would break the heart of a God.

And beyond Africa is the Middle East and the loathsome clash of religious fanatics. May I say just as bit more? I don't want to short circuit this communication before it gets started, but there's also America's homeless (so greatly increased during the last 7 years) and untreated American patients who no longer have heath insurance, all thanks to the heartless greed of Bush/Republicans.

Also, the obscene rape of Mother Nature by Texas energy companies and the mortal sin abandonment of New Orleans.

Oh, the list is endless. It is literally endless. And it's a variation of suffering (human and otherwise) that is beyond anything we can cope with.

Like many of you, this author is quasi religious (may I put it like that?), but I think if we need a God for anything it's to protect us from opening our hearts too widely to the bottomless pain and sorrow of our human brothers and sisters. Some of us can endure an afternoon in a cancer ward for children, or being around broken middle and lower class families who have taken up the tax burden for the pig, pig rich and who are now supporting (with taxes and their children's lives) the Satanic Oil Wars of the Bush/Republican Administration, but such moral, spiritual heroes are few and far between.

We have learned during these last 7 years that politics is part of the problem. We will get no help from our ONE party system, i.e., the Democratic/Republican Party.

We have also learned that institutionalized religion is the bought and paid for lackey of Greek God like elites. This isn't only apparent in duh-brained religious cults like Armageddon twits who actually think the Earth is going to go boom in the next week or two, it's equally true for infinitely self righteous Zionists, the "invisible" Catholic Church (which never takes a moral stand about ANYTHING), and the Muslim "holy warriors", that ultimate contradiction in terms. A plague on all these murder in the name of God houses.

But the repression, the core, core repression of the human race which even surpasses our terror of death is what?

Oh how easy to talk about this infinitely self evident (and hence so easily repressed) truth. The core repression of the human condition is the infinite injustice between the "haves" and the "have nets".

Old fashioned language or not, this is the very heart and soul of human existence. The pig, pig rich are the literal devils of human existence and for every Paris Hilton, there are (and necessarily are!) thousands of compensating starving and dying children. This 1% (or less) of the human race is the nadir, the essence, the killing floor of civilization.

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A liberal American, PhD mathematician, bipedal Earthling.

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A liberal American, PhD mathematician, bipedal Earthling.
W. Christopher Epler (Bill)A liberal American, PhD mathematician, bipedal Earthling.

heartbreak

Thank you Prof.  Your kind words mean very much to me.  Will I make a fool out of myself if I say when I write things like this I frequently have to fight back tears.  My God, the EVIL of this distinction has defined our existence as vulnerable human beings for thousands and thousands of years, and yet IT CONTINUES.  My God, the beat just goes on with the Paris Hilton's and Rupert Murdochs while literrally MILLIONS of us are dying (children more than adults) to keep that Greek God life style going and going and going.  Jesus saw this so clearly.  IT'S THE MAIN THING HE TALKED ABOUT and it's probably the real reason he was crucified (he got a tad too close the the money changers in the "temple").

And there's the political and religious puppets of these infinitely rich people (of BOTH political parties, as you well know).  Religions have their moments and Godspeed to them, but MOSTLY religion has simply supplied the "moral justification" for the elites ("Divine Right" -- crap like that). 

Oh, I have to come up for air.  This evil is so infinite and "accepted".  As I said in my piece, the Holy Grail is NOW.  We don't have to find it or wait 10,000 years.  It's the planet Earth with all its bounties and glories . . . but the Earth "belongs" to the vampire "haves".  And religion and politics mostly keeps "distracting" people from DEALING WITH THIS DIRECTLY.

What would that mean?  I honestly don't know the big picture dynamics of lhow to change this, but I do know if IF a few billion of us got the message in our quarks, these monsters of greed would be history in a heartbeat and high sanity, rationality, and mutual kindness would reign

by W. Christopher Epler (Bill) (218 articles, 44 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 485 comments) on Thursday, July 5, 2007 at 4:09:28 PM
 


electronic technician, truth seeker
Bob Gormleyelectronic technician, truth seeker

Evil Accepted

Yes....

    Evil is accepted.... People just go to their pool parties and have another

drink. You bring up the 1million dead innocents (mostly innocent) in Iraq and

they just give you a blank stare. Clueless... absolutely clueless.

      

by Bob Gormley (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 915 comments) on Thursday, July 5, 2007 at 4:14:33 PM
 


electronic technician, truth seeker
Bob Gormleyelectronic technician, truth seeker

Yes

Yes Bill,

    Nice piece and I agree with you 100%.

If people would just start using their God-given brain and start thinking for themselves they just might

see what's going on. Politics and institutionalized religion are blockades/buffers that the super rich use to control the masses.

You ever sit around say like a pool party and listen to people talk?

Sometimes it's very depressing. They have no clue what's going on.

All they talk about is things, ie the new house , the new car, their next cruise, etc. That's why we're so easily controlled.... Fat, dumb, and happy

(at least short-term happiness).

Bob

   

by Bob Gormley (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 915 comments) on Thursday, July 5, 2007 at 4:10:56 PM
 


A liberal American, PhD mathematician, bipedal Earthling.
W. Christopher Epler (Bill)A liberal American, PhD mathematician, bipedal Earthling.

Thanks

Yeah, I know about those pool conversations:  sound and fury signifying nothing.   Ugh.

Bill

by W. Christopher Epler (Bill) (218 articles, 44 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 485 comments) on Thursday, July 5, 2007 at 10:48:24 PM
 


Professor Bagnolo is a Renaissance man: Cultural Anthropologist, Architectural designer, painter, writer, novelist, theologian. As a child prodigy, abed with polio for almost two years, with an off the charts IQ, reading at the graduate level by 5th grade, offered an opportunity to skip three grades at age 8.Later He was a recipient of an Art Institute scholarship at age 11, a Ford Foundation Fellowship in Anthropology and in Painting and a merit scholarship in art, and was appointed a Graduate ...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Professor Emeritus Peter BagnoloProfessor Bagnolo is a Renaissance man: Cultural Anthropologist, Architectural designer, painter, writer, novelist, theologian. As a child prodigy, abed with polio for almost two years, with an off the charts IQ, reading at the graduate level by 5th grade, offered an opportunity to skip three grades at age 8.Later He was a recipient of an Art Institute scholarship at age 11, a Ford Foundation Fellowship in Anthropology and in Painting and a merit scholarship in art, and was appointed a Graduate ...

to see more of bio, click on member name

W.BILL

Can't tell how often in my prayers and when I start to write there are also tears that are why at times, I write with such passion that foul language flows freely. How often I have thought, there is enough for everyone to have moderate wealth, everywhere, but here are these thieves, whatever they steal kills children, women, men, the otherwise healthy elderly, somewhere, but the Congress only wants a piece of the pie and could care less.

You see if there was nothing else, Bill, for evidence I would embrace belief in God, not just because the several smartest people I ever met, believed, including Einstein, but because of the evil of men and the way in which they mask their fear of God by pretending at belief and carefully constructing a "belief system" that allows them greed.

They are afraid and they know, but they do not have our confidence and pure faith, and yes, I do certainly look down upon them because they are the epitome' of evil, they know it and they cover it up with false piety and calculated "charity. f the most evil among us. There evil would be the key to my belief even if it was the only clue.

The very fact that we do not go enmasse and drag the bastards out of their board rooms and hang them from their heels as my ancestors did to Mussolini, that we practice restraint because we know, we know, that it is not right to kill for any reason other than man to man if assaulted.

Their evil indicates not just their apparent avarice, but that they cannot or will not control their avarice, and we can. That is why they hate us. As did you today, I have a thousand times hammered away at real evil, lack of empathy and avarice-Jesus had less than nothing, as did God and the Prophets, about sexuality, (See John 4:4-42), the church adopted the short-hairs faux evil sexual adventurism to cover their own addiction to cash.

They ignored the truth and the real reason Jesus was killed, which had NOTHING TO DO WITH THEOLOGY, it had to do with CASH!

Actually, great minds, etc. I was working on a similar piece. So I will put it off for a few days, I have written before about why Jesus was killed, but it was always part of an article about other thing, in this next one it is all about why he was killed.

Recall in the great Robert Redford, directed film, QUIZ SHOW, the Italian Director Martin Scorsese tells Goodwin, that the show is all about people watching the money move.

Jesus did not die because he was in conflict religiously, that was a farce, rabbi's were far more blasphemous in their arguments and so were prophets. Also the rush to judgment was odd, I did years of research and I break the sad news this week, he died because he wanted dot do exactly what you and I want to do, staunch the flow of money to those who need it not. Watch for my article soon and keep the faith and the great writing and ideas flowing, eventually prayer, words, and sacrifice, trump cash and evil. It just takes longer than Bush's remedy, which is mass-murder, mass-murder. Who are those who support him? Avaristic, mass-murderers.

Pete

by Professor Emeritus Peter Bagnolo (144 articles, 1 quicklinks, 95 diaries, 1313 comments) on Thursday, July 5, 2007 at 7:07:31 PM
 


A liberal American, PhD mathematician, bipedal Earthling.
W. Christopher Epler (Bill)A liberal American, PhD mathematician, bipedal Earthling.

sweet winds

You've made my day!   Trust me, I will eagerly look forward to your article about the true whys of Jesus' death (especiallly since I know you have researched this far more than my own heart intutions).  How extraordinary that NO ONE talks about this!  My first clue was when I realized that even though Jesus touched a lot of mystical bases, the thing he talked about most and with such passion (with the root meaning of passion) was this devil/pig have, have not distinction. 

You have helped me to catch my breath to discover that even with respect to the ultimately serious matter of life, soul mates are out there somewhere.

About God and all that mystery, first may I thank you for what you have shared with me.  Basically here too, I think we are flying with much harmony.  My liberation on this subject was to get perfectly clear that religion at it's best has nothing to do with rituals and castrated theologians. It's the God is Love thing and the trashed (and terrifying) truth that Jesus didn't give us an institutional religion (all that dress man business), he shared with us that he IS our own vulnerable hearts.  There is nothing in life I trust more than vulnerability.  Jesus suffered and died but that didn't subtract anything from him, au contraire.  Suffering is the mystery of mysteries.

How tragic that most religions bury these spiritual hints and whispers.  Hints and whispers not because they they are feeble and barely significant, but because you can look at the sun only out of the corner of your eye and very briefly.  But since these spiritual conflagrations are ridiculed or perveted,  trivia and dross takes over life by default. 

 If our species made eye contact with these things, Jesus would be everywhere. 

I take hope that EVEN TALKING ABOUT THESE EVILS AND FREEDOMS has it's own mysterious chemisty.  J. Krishnamurti (a faily contemporary philosopher/mystic and good fried of the quantum physicist David Bohm), said it to perfection:  "It is truth that liberates; not the effort to be free."

Ah, how sweet are the winds when the windows open . . .

by W. Christopher Epler (Bill) (218 articles, 44 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 485 comments) on Thursday, July 5, 2007 at 7:48:29 PM
 


Professor Bagnolo is a Renaissance man: Cultural Anthropologist, Architectural designer, painter, writer, novelist, theologian. As a child prodigy, abed with polio for almost two years, with an off the charts IQ, reading at the graduate level by 5th grade, offered an opportunity to skip three grades at age 8.Later He was a recipient of an Art Institute scholarship at age 11, a Ford Foundation Fellowship in Anthropology and in Painting and a merit scholarship in art, and was appointed a Graduate ...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Professor Emeritus Peter BagnoloProfessor Bagnolo is a Renaissance man: Cultural Anthropologist, Architectural designer, painter, writer, novelist, theologian. As a child prodigy, abed with polio for almost two years, with an off the charts IQ, reading at the graduate level by 5th grade, offered an opportunity to skip three grades at age 8.Later He was a recipient of an Art Institute scholarship at age 11, a Ford Foundation Fellowship in Anthropology and in Painting and a merit scholarship in art, and was appointed a Graduate ...

to see more of bio, click on member name

THE REALITY, BILL...

There are at least 36 of us enlightened here and there-soul brothers.sisters. I will endeavor to get it out by mid-week. Still have a bit of translating to do for it. Stiff upper, whether we die or not, is less important than we will be here for the finale', dead or alive, matters not. they cannot possibly win because once their flesh begins to rot they have to come across the void to us and that seals their doom forever.

pete

by Professor Emeritus Peter Bagnolo (144 articles, 1 quicklinks, 95 diaries, 1313 comments) on Thursday, July 5, 2007 at 8:39:36 PM
 


electronic technician, truth seeker
Bob Gormleyelectronic technician, truth seeker

Flesh, Spirit

The flesh is only temporary as you well know Pete.

It's the spirit that is important.  Physical and spiritual planes.... they exist.

by Bob Gormley (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 915 comments) on Friday, July 6, 2007 at 8:00:23 AM
 


Been around the block a few times.
Blue PilgrimBeen around the block a few times.

A bit of a strange

direction for the comment thread to an essay ending with It’s time to find NON religious, NON political ways to scourge the Earth of the “Vampires of Have”. (Which I think would be a good thing.)

I'm not quite sure how the existence of 'evil' might be a proof of the existence of God, or that many evil people think about religion or God at all -- or, for that matter, other people except as means to their ends: the essence of sociopathy.

by Blue Pilgrim (0 articles, 3 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 998 comments) on Friday, July 6, 2007 at 5:05:16 AM
 


electronic technician, truth seeker
Bob Gormleyelectronic technician, truth seeker

Non- Religious Ways

I don't want to speak for Bill  (and correct me if I'm wrong Bill), but by non-religious ways I believe Bill was talking about institutionalized religion.

I believe it's more a spiritual awareness as Jesus pointed out. If you remember your Bible , Jesus blasted the religious leaders of his day.

by Bob Gormley (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 915 comments) on Friday, July 6, 2007 at 8:04:29 AM
 


Been around the block a few times.
Blue PilgrimBeen around the block a few times.

Would you then say

that atheists and agnostics have no part in this? Or are part of the problem, or not able to grasp the moral and ethical issues?

Why limit religion to only institutional aspects while implying that theistic belief of some sort -- perhaps Biblical or Christian -- is necessary? Is that your position?

by Blue Pilgrim (0 articles, 3 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 998 comments) on Friday, July 6, 2007 at 2:40:44 PM
 


electronic technician, truth seeker
Bob Gormleyelectronic technician, truth seeker

My Position

I believe atheists and agnostics can be moral and ethical.

And by no means are they excluded as part of the solution.

I just believe in a God who is the author of all morality.

Whether you do or not is your decision.

Bob

by Bob Gormley (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 915 comments) on Friday, July 6, 2007 at 3:02:52 PM
 


Been around the block a few times.
Blue PilgrimBeen around the block a few times.

OK

My morality comes unlabeled with 'country of origin', and a fair bit of it is homemade from scratch. I think it's more important to dwell on the practical (utilitarian?) ethics which are fairly universal rather than of religious origin. That removes the religious aspects which can be a source of controvery, and really should not be injected into poltics anyway.

by Blue Pilgrim (0 articles, 3 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 998 comments) on Friday, July 6, 2007 at 4:46:39 PM
 


A meteorologist by trade, I am an ardent Bush, Cheney and (general liar) detractor. When I'm relaxing, I love to camp and fish.
wxman2001A meteorologist by trade, I am an ardent Bush, Cheney and (general liar) detractor. When I'm relaxing, I love to camp and fish.

Spritual versus religious

I've always thought that organized religion and greed are responsible for most of the misery in this world; more people have died as a result of religous wars, and more recently greed wars than any other reason by far. I myself say I'm spritual, with beliefs in line with Native American tribes or wiccan; respect all spirits, whether animal. plant or rock, and only take what you need, thanking the spirit of the fish,m when you catch him with the purpose of eating it. Be grateful to the tree  for its shade, fruit and habitat it creates, and be respectful when you cull it to build something or make room for new trees to grow.

by wxman2001 (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 10 diaries, 108 comments) on Friday, July 6, 2007 at 11:27:07 AM
 


electronic technician, truth seeker
Bob Gormleyelectronic technician, truth seeker

Greed

Greed is such a huge problem.

We get programmed by the TV, magazines, etc. telling us all the things

we think we need.

by Bob Gormley (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 915 comments) on Friday, July 6, 2007 at 12:05:56 PM
 


About me: *I am a Christian. One who believes in the lord, but also respects science (and other peoples beliefs and non-beliefs too). ...and I have no need to add the prefix "True" before the word "Christian", because either you are telling the "Truth" or you are not. *I have been married for __ years. I have a wonderful wife and two wonderful kids. *My web site is the work of one person. *I am a private individual. *I am not funded by any group. *I sincerely value human life (dem...

to see more of bio, click on member name

RCGAbout me: *I am a Christian. One who believes in the lord, but also respects science (and other peoples beliefs and non-beliefs too). ...and I have no need to add the prefix "True" before the word "Christian", because either you are telling the "Truth" or you are not. *I have been married for __ years. I have a wonderful wife and two wonderful kids. *My web site is the work of one person. *I am a private individual. *I am not funded by any group. *I sincerely value human life (dem...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Awesome piece-that makes so much sense, but sigh...so what?

Bill, you make a lot of sense here. And it brings me encouragement and hope when I read "thoughts" like yours and prof. petes as well. Thoughts that often resemble mine in so much depth and detail. But please pardon me for going off on a tangent here, but what does it all mean? I mean, do people like "you" even really exist? I cannot find anyone like you or the prof. pete here in my own neighborhood, city, or state, for that matter. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not lonely - I'm married with two kids - i'm not looking for company, but if indeed there are people out there with like minds (on important matters) to my own - then where the hell are they? Which brings me to my point - how in the heck are we all going to ever get together and RISE up as you suggest? The thought of it almost makes me want to laugh (and cry at the same time). It's a tragi-comedy.

And this may be hard to follow because I don't have time to clarify, but while the internet is bringing so many of us together - it is also keeping us apart. Think about this: If we were communicating via phone, fax, and mail - then by now we would have all (of us here who really care) had somehow, someway, found a way to meet and organize in person. Meet-ups would be happenning all over teh country. And if we don't wise up to this - and if things don't change - if we don't change - then what are we doing here other than sitting around behind our computer screens and bitching and gossiping like a bunch of silly teens or retired folks playing bridge? I'm tired of "talking". You know how the saying goes, "action talks and bullshit walks".

Anyhoo, this is why I'm getting off of the net - for other than worthless expensive time and (limited) resource wasting mass washington protests (protests which are ignored by our corp. gov't leaders/employees and don't media coverage), I never see any concrete action. So other than making people feel good - what good is my (and your) being here?

by RCG (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 352 comments) on Friday, July 6, 2007 at 11:43:17 AM
 


Been around the block a few times.
Blue PilgrimBeen around the block a few times.

the purpose of the net

communications is to help re-establish social norms, pass information, plan, inspire, create and spread memes, talkng points, and arguments, and gauge current public opinion and trends. It can serva as a substitute for the mettings and intercourse which used to take place in the public squate and markets and town meetings -- things which are increasingly rare as people become more isolated. It's a 'field of battle' in the information war and a counter to main stream corporate media.

by Blue Pilgrim (0 articles, 3 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 998 comments) on Friday, July 6, 2007 at 2:47:30 PM
 


A liberal American, PhD mathematician, bipedal Earthling.
W. Christopher Epler (Bill)A liberal American, PhD mathematician, bipedal Earthling.

walking the walk

Wow, said to perfection!  Thank you.  That's exactly the way I see it too.  This IS walking the walk -- just in a brand new way.

Bill

by W. Christopher Epler (Bill) (218 articles, 44 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 485 comments) on Friday, July 6, 2007 at 5:52:04 PM
 


Professor Bagnolo is a Renaissance man: Cultural Anthropologist, Architectural designer, painter, writer, novelist, theologian. As a child prodigy, abed with polio for almost two years, with an off the charts IQ, reading at the graduate level by 5th grade, offered an opportunity to skip three grades at age 8.Later He was a recipient of an Art Institute scholarship at age 11, a Ford Foundation Fellowship in Anthropology and in Painting and a merit scholarship in art, and was appointed a Graduate ...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Professor Emeritus Peter BagnoloProfessor Bagnolo is a Renaissance man: Cultural Anthropologist, Architectural designer, painter, writer, novelist, theologian. As a child prodigy, abed with polio for almost two years, with an off the charts IQ, reading at the graduate level by 5th grade, offered an opportunity to skip three grades at age 8.Later He was a recipient of an Art Institute scholarship at age 11, a Ford Foundation Fellowship in Anthropology and in Painting and a merit scholarship in art, and was appointed a Graduate ...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Awesome

A colleague, a professor of Psychology, asked me once what was the greatest factor in a successful marriage. Whatever I answered he said, "Nope"! So I asked him what after his years of marriage counseling, sexual counseling, study and teaching, was his experience.

"Blind luck!" There may be in all the world 100 or more people who would be a good fit for you, but they may be scattered all over the planet and most couples are lucky if they date, seriously enough to know others, maybe 10, 20, 30 people, all living or working nearby. The sex may be good, or a few other things, but you would need to date thousands of people to get a large enough sample to find a lot of compatible areas of interest.

It is similar with friendships and business acquaintances. I know a good many people, very few agree with what I believe to be the truth. The best way to find people you are compatible with is in a place like this. That is why electronic dating services do probably work for some people. A lot of the people I worked with held similar views, because the environment at many colleges and universities is still fairly liberal, but many of them were ambivalent about a good many things about which I am passionate, and they are passionate about things I find meaningless, like lawns and driveways, and  yards, and stuff I find silly and toxic, like using pesticides.

My pal says that about 55% of marriages fail, and really only 10%-15% are truly great matches.

The wider your area of movement and situations were you can meet large numbers of people, the more those movements involve things you hold dear, the greater the chance of finding compatible friends.

We here have similar interests, but differing education, beliefs in other than politics and we cannot all really say we have the same goals and means of getting where we think we want to. So, even here we often are at each other's throats.

When my great Grand parents came to America they moved to a town and neighborhood where people from their village lived so they could protect themselves and their values and be with like speaking and thinking people. Some of them were happy, some were not. They crossed an ocean and their odds were still not much better than if they'd stayed in Italy. No one ever said this life of ours was going to be easy, but Linda and I have met some dear people, and I try to avoid the toxic folks and make friends with those we are most value.

In our neighborhood there are mostly rich people, conservatives, non-intellectuals, they have money but some of them are not very bright, they don't read much, their taste in films is not like ours, they are very conspicuous consumers, we are not.

Our core group is quite small. That is life.

by Professor Emeritus Peter Bagnolo (144 articles, 1 quicklinks, 95 diaries, 1313 comments) on Friday, July 6, 2007 at 6:11:31 PM
 


A liberal American, PhD mathematician, bipedal Earthling.
W. Christopher Epler (Bill)A liberal American, PhD mathematician, bipedal Earthling.

dumb luck

Dumb luck!  I can dig it. I think we frequently delude ourself into thinking we have have much more contol over the things in our lives than we actually do.  This conjurs up the Heisenberg Indeterminancy Princple (so bugging to Einstein) for openers and on from there.  Randomness also comes to mind, but there's sloppy randomness, which is a kind of synonym of chaos vs. mathematical randomness which the pattern which reveals itself after a great many trials, e.g., flipping a coin has great variablity at the beginning but theoretically converges to the true probabaly of getting, say, a head as the number of flips goes to infinity. 

Gee, I'm all over the place today.  From marriage to randomness.  Wouldn't it have been wonderful to have participated in those Bohr/Einstein discussions (which I think Bohn won hands down)?   Also I have a few tapes of the Bohm/Jiddu Krishnamurti disscussions.  Out there!  Bohm said he was attracted to Krishnamurti's insistance that the observer is the observed, which clearly has quantum as well as mystical meaning.   Bohm seemed to be about the only person Krishnamurti didn't to talk to like an idiot.  He clearly respected Bohm which was rare to the max.

Prof, now I know I'm free associating, but "somehow" this discussion is related to a piece I sent to Op-Ed called "the caR".  It's a surreal short story (4 or 5 pages) which I think you might like.  Surprisingly I can paste it into this window, so here it is:

the caR

by W. Christopher Epler (Bill)

http://www.opednews.com

the caR

 

************************************************************************

Suddenly the doors open and people tumble into the container, the place with seats, not the caboose which yawns for groceries in the shopping mall parking lot, and in due course the car does what it does best which is of course to ROLL, but not as in "row, row, row the boat, gently down the stream", but "roll, roll, roll the car, gently (or otherwise) down the street" -- except there isn't any roller. That's the thing about rolling.

Monique was sitting behind the wheel. Not really behind it so much as under it as she rolled all over the place running errands and talking to Bubba. Bubba didn't like his name since it sounded like he was stuttering when he said it. In fact sometimes he did stutter, a little, when telling people his name, but they acted like they didn't notice, though they always DID notice and mentally classified him as marginally defective even though he had good definition in his biceps.

During the middle of the night seat belts stop being seat belts, but like the light inside the refrigerator which you can never check to see if it really turns off when you close the door, the instant, the very instant, anyone looks inside the car, they WILL see seat belts. Yes, yes, but what if no one's looking. Well . . .

Bubba: I ran into Harrold the other day.

Monique: Yeah? Does he spell his name with one or two r's?

Bubba: Monique, why do ask me questions like that?

Monique: Bubba, why do you ask me questions like that?

[Bubba reaches over with erotic intent, but the smoking tip of his cancer tube drops in his crotch and he starts flapping around like a hysterical penguin.]

Monique: All better?

Bubba: JEEZus, the price you have to pay these days to get lung cancer!

Monique: Funny. You probably will get cancer you know -- and bring down about 14 other people while you're at it, you're such a fucking secondary smoke machine. Doesn't it ever bother you that you're significantly contributing to giving EVERYONE ELSE WHO KNOW'S YOU cancer?

Bubba: Nope, not at all. Not fucking at all. These little babies are my way as saying fuck you to God.

The car rolls and rolls and rolls. And when it's not rolling it's sitting still. When Monique starts the car she always sees herself as in some way 'causing' the rolling, much like moving a paddle boat at the River Club, but of course she might just as well be in front of her (never turned off) television, playing no role WHATSOEVER as she does in the production of rolling, since she's the recipient, merely, of an elaborate chain of effects originating in controlled combustions under the hood.

But this is the game cars and people play. People pretend they're (somehow) "causing" the rolling with will power (maybe thought?) even though cars know better. At least, cars WOULD know better, if cars knew anything, but as to whether or not they do, that's up for grabs. But IF (let's just pretend --