Some Historical Problems

The "Pledge" was written by a Baptist minister in 1892 and was written as part of a Columbus Day celebration. It became very popular nation wide because it was thought to help the healing process of a nation that was still divided in the Civil War aftermath. President Harrison made a proclamation in which the pledge was to be used in public schools. The original pledge was very simple: "I pledge allegiance to my flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." The words "my flag" were later changed to "the flag of the United States of America."

I do not like that the words "under God" that were added in 1954 on "Flag Day" by President Eisenhower. The Baptist minister who originally wrote the words would have not liked the addition either since Baptist historically have  believed in a rigid wall separating religion and state.

In 1943, the Supreme Court of the United States (SCOTUS) ruled that compulsory pledging to the flag in the public schools was illegal.

The "Pledge" was originally saluted with the right hand over the heart for the first two words and then extended to point to the flag being pledged with the palm extended pointing upward as if the flag was being help up by the palm. The Nazi pledge was with the palm downward. The original pledge had nothing to do with Nazism and existed long before the National Socialist Part of Germany. In fact the first salute of the pledge was discontinued because of a fear of it being associated with Nazism during the late thirties.

I find no problems pledging my allegiance to a country that does much for me. If it were not for the United States of America, we would all be saying "Seig Heil" while living under either the "Rising Sun" or the Swastika. Without our help England, the USSR, and China would have fallen very quickly in 1941; with the allies falling before the Axis, the United States would have been forced to sue for a peace with Germany controlling all of Europe and Norh Africa, and with Japan controlling all of the Far East. What kind of world would that have been for all of us who hate tyranny?

by pratliff94 (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 969 comments) on Friday, July 27, 2007 at 12:37:15 PM
 

Dr. Rex Curry's amazing historical discoveries are correct

The "Pledge" was originally saluted with a military salute at the start of the pledge for the first two words and then extended toward the flag being pledged.  In practice, the salute was with the palm down (even though it was originally written to have the palm up, as written by Francis Bellamy, a self-proclaimed American National Socialist). The photos confirm all of this. The German National Socialist pledge was with the palm downward, and the American National Socialist Pledge of Allegiance to the flag was the origin of the salute of German National Socialists decades later. The original pledge had everything to do National socialism and military socialism. And it existed long before the National Socialist Party of Germany, and it was influential upon German National Socialists. In fact, the relationship was so clear that the first salute of the pledge was discontinued because of a fear of it being associated with German National Socialism during the late thirties.

You say that you find no problems pledging your allegiance to a country that does much for me, yet you are like most people in that after you left the daily ritual in government schools, you immediately stopped doing it. Because of the United States of America, we are still robotically chanting daily in government schools (socialist schools) with the same pledge that was the origin of the stiff-arm salute used when German were saying "Seig Heil"  and it inspired their behavior. In 1939, German National Socialists joined with the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics to invade Poland in a pact to divide up Europe, spreading WWII. It was part of the socialist Wholecaust (of which the Holocaust was a part): ~60 million slaughtered under the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics; ~40 million under the Peoples' Republic of China; ~20 million under the National Socialist German Workers' Party.  The USSR and China went on to slaughter even more people than Germany after 1941; Soviet Socialists essentially maintained their part of the pact (with German socialists) to divide up Europe. Soviet Socialists would have been forced to sue for a peace with German Socialists but for the aid that Soviet Socialists obtained from others. What kind of world would that have been for all of us who hate tyranny if the homicidal socialists in the USSR and China had not gained power, lasted so long and killed so many (setting records that they hold to this very day)?

by Tinny Ray (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 8 comments) on Friday, July 27, 2007 at 1:17:58 PM
 

Look at the words and forget the man.

Three things:

1. The words of the pledge themselves whether it be with Bellamy's original words or to the two changes which he opposed have this in common: they each are pledged to a nation which has as her sole purpose "liberty and justice for all."

The words say "one nation indivisible" for which was the primary reason for the Civil War according to President Lincoln-- to preserve the Union. The words are no Nazi or Communist jargon "one nation with liberty and justice for all" which addressed the slave issue and the apartheid issue which followed the Civil War.

Bellamy was so incensed at a Baptist church he later joined in Florida that he protested openly about their racist attitudes and finally just quit going. What we know of Hitler's Germany and Stalin's USSR was just the opposite of that...  "liberty and justice for all." Bellamy defended the blacks while Hitler destroyed the Jew, the Gypsy, and the Slav which he considered far down on the evolutionary chain.

2. Mr. Ray is strongly accusing Bellamy of being a Nazi with Hitler-like intentions. Francis Bellamy was no national socialist in the the sense of German Nazism. German Nazism was not socialism in any kind of stretch of the imaginaton just as the USSR was not real communism:  Nazism was an absolute dictatorship built around the rabid cult of personality worship with fascism as its driving force.

3. Mr. Ray is accusing Mr. Bellamy of being a Nazi before Nazism was ever heard of .  Hitler's greatest hate after the Jews was socialism. It is why he stabbed Stalin in the back with the June 1940 invasion of the USSR after they jointly divided Poland in half.  Mr. Bellamy would not fit into any right wing group of the last fifty years. He was an avowed national socialist (little "n", little "s" over against an international socialist. He wanted socialism for the United States. That Francis Bellamy was a socialist is made very clear in his writings such as Looking Backward and Equality.

If I could add a fourth observation, it would be this simple remark, our problem is not teaching our children to say the Pledge of Allegiance in our schools, our problem is that there are too many times we do not live up to the words we pledge to ourselves of having one nation with "liberty and justice for all." The Separation of Religion and State is under attack from every direction; we have condoned the torture of human beings and make believe it is not torture; we have thrown the Constitution with Habeas Corpus out of our justice sytem and still call our system justice; we have silenced the workers voice by destroying the unions with such trite slogans as "The Right to Work;" our branches of government no longer serve as checks and balances to each other but are an echo of the  executive branch; almost fifty million of our citizens have no health care when every advanced counrty in the world has universal health care without a health for profit motive and we have topped this mess by allowing the corportations to not only take over all the media where only one voice is heard, but it seems we have now allowed the corporate media to break every anti-monoply and anti-trust law by concentrating the media in the hands of the very few and the very wealthy, and I haven't mentioned the fiasco taking place "no paper trail" for our ballots at election time. Yes, we need freedom and justice for all.

We do not need to end the pledge; we need to start being a nation that lives the pledge.

by pratliff94 (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 969 comments) on Friday, July 27, 2007 at 9:07:17 PM
 

The work by the historian Dr. Rex Curry is conceded.

The words of the pledge have this in common: they each are robotically chanted in government schools (socialist schools) with the same vacuous phrases (e.g. "liberty and justice for all") that meant national socialism to Bellamy when he wrote it, to the National Socialist German Workers' Party, and to their allies, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. It was and is performed as robotic chanting in mass as prescribed by law and the children are kept ignorant of the fact that they can refuse, they are still persecuted if they do refuse, and they are not told the history of the pledge or its stiff-arm salute.  

It is interesting that you concede that the words say "one nation indivisible" for which was the primary reason for the Civil War according to President Lincoln-- to preserve the Union (not to end slavery). The words are no different from the jargon of the National Socialist German Workers' Party or its ally the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. It was the Bellamy concept of Lebenraum and empire over people who wanted to secede or be independent, and it inspired German socialists and Soviet socialists in the same way. 

A common myth is that Bellamy was so incensed at a Baptist church he later joined in Florida that he protested openly about their racist attitudes and finally just quit going.  Not only was that much later after he wrote the pledge, it was ironically, at the same time that Bellamy failed to say a word about government schools imposing segregation by law and teaching racism as official policy. Bellamy failed to ever advocate that people should stop attending government schools due to the segregation imposed by law and taught as official policy.  It is fortunate that he did not also adocate a government takeover of churches (as he had with schools) or the government would have imposed segregation by law in churches and taught racism as official policy in churches, as the government had when it followed his lead in socializing schools. The links in the original article show a segregated class performing that pledge's early stiff-arm salute. It is eye popping.

The policies of segregation by law and racism as official policy, as aided by Bellamy, stood as horrid examples for decades before influencing German socialists and Soviet Socialists, all the while they robotically chanted the phrase you blindly tout "liberty and justice for all." The Bellamys were racists and bigots. You are reqriting history in order to glorify it.  The segregation imposed by law and taught as official policy in government schools in the USA even outlasted German National Socialism by more than a decade. After that the government imposed even more socialism via mandatory busing that destroyed neighborhoods and heightened hositilities.

Mr. Pratliff is strongly evading the fact that the Bellamys (Francis Bellamy and Edward Bellamy) were self-proclaimed National Socialists who influended and inspired German socialists and Soviet Socialists. Francis Bellamy was a national socialist in the sense of German socialism and Soviet socialism. The National Socialist German Workers' Party was socialist just as was the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. They are built around the rabid cult of personality / government worship which is what the robotic chanting of the pledge is to this very day in government schools daily.

Mr. Pratliff is evading the fact that the Bellamys were self-proclaimed National Socialists long before German National Socialism was ever heard of, and thus influenced German socialists for three decades before culminating in the National Socialist German Workers' Party (and in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics). 

Thank you for conceding that Mr. Bellamy was "an avowed national socialist (little "n", little "s") over against an international socialist. He wanted socialism for the United States. That Francis Bellamy was a socialist is made very clear in his writings such as Looking Backward and Equality."

If I could add a fourth observation, it would be this simple remark, our problem is teaching our children to robotically chant the Pledge of Allegiance in government schools (socialist schools), and teaching them that the words "liberty and justice for all" mean national socialism and the worship of government and the Bellamy concept of "Military Socialism." It has led to torture of human beings and make believe it is not torture; we have thrown the Constitution with Habeas Corpus out of our justice sytem and still call our system justice; we have enlaved the workers with socialist slave numbers (social security numbers) that tax and track them for life; our branches of government no longer serve as checks and balances to each other but are an echo of the  executive branch; almost fifty million of our citizens have no health care due to socialized medicine in the USA, similar to the destruction of health care in other countries where the government has taken over on the same path as in the backward countries in the world, and under the National Socialist German Workers Party, and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. It continues to create a socialist health care system under which everyone loses and no one gains, and people die waiting for government, and we have topped this mess by allowing the bureaucracies  to not only take over all the media (e.g. via the FCC) where only one voice is heard (the government's voice), and we have allowed the government to create more socialist monopolies by concentrating the control in the hands of the very few and the very wealthy, the very powerful, just as under German socialism and Soviet socialism.  

We do need to end the pledge and government schools (socialist schools) an we need to start being truly free people who end the many forms of socialism that still haunt us and grow. 

Thank you for conceding that research by Dr. Rex Curry is correct in showing that the "Pledge" was originally saluted with a military salute at the start of the pledge for the first two words and then extended toward the flag being pledged and that, in practice, the salute was with the palm down (even though it was originally written to have the palm up, as written by Francis Bellamy, a self-proclaimed American National Socialist). The photos confirm all of that. The German National Socialist pledge was with the palm downward, and the American National Socialist Pledge of Allegiance to the flag was the origin of the salute of German National Socialists decades later.

The original pledge had everything to do National socialism and military socialism. And it was in use long before (three decades before) the National Socialist Party of Germany, and it was influential upon German National Socialists. In fact, the relationship was so clear that the first salute of the pledge was discontinued because of a fear of it being associated with German National Socialism during the late thirties.

You say that you find no problems pledging your allegiance to a country that does much for you, yet you are like most people in that after you left the daily ritual in government schools, you immediately stopped doing it.   You do not arise each morning to gather with your neighbors to chant, and you have no intention of doing so (unless the government coerces you to do so).

Because of the United States of America, we are still robotically chanting daily in government schools (socialist schools) with the same pledge that was the origin of the stiff-arm salute used when German were saying "Seig Heil"  and it inspired their behavior. In 1939, German National Socialists joined with the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics to invade Poland in a pact to divide up Europe, spreading WWII. It was part of the socialist Wholecaust (of which the Holocaust was a part): ~60 million slaughtered under the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics; ~40 million under the Peoples' Republic of China; ~20 million under the National Socialist German Workers' Party.  The USSR and China went on to slaughter even more people than Germany after 1941; Soviet Socialists essentially maintained their part of the pact (with German socialists) to divide up Europe. Soviet Socialists would have been forced to sue for a peace with German Socialists but for the aid that Soviet Socialists obtained from others. What kind of world would that have been for all of us who hate tyranny if the homicidal socialists in the USSR and China had not gained power, lasted so long and killed so many (setting the worst records that they hold to this very day)?

by Tinny Ray (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 8 comments) on Saturday, July 28, 2007 at 1:14:14 AM
 

Edward Bellamy wrote "Looking Backward" and "Equality"

And to clarify a point: Edward Bellamy (cousin to Francis Bellamy) wrote "Looking Backward" and "Equality," both horrible books that touted the  National Socialist dogma of the Bellamys and that influenced people under the National Socialist German Workers' Party and under the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

by Tinny Ray (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 8 comments) on Saturday, July 28, 2007 at 6:35:26 AM