And please, for once get the facts straight.

When it comes to agriculture in particular we need immigration reform that allows American farmers to jobs most Americans won't do.

The wages being paid by farmers in the current legal H2A system averages $9.50 per hour and includes housing for the immigrant worker. It also includes transportation to and from their home country, visas, paperwork, transportation while they are working in the US, etc.

America's farmers are already willing to pay a premium for workers who want to work. So this is not about slave wages as most try to use.

Additionally there are NO subsidies for specialty crops which includes ALL fruits and vegetables. The American Farmer has to also compete with third world countries selling produce in the American market.

Agriculture is a global business and a global marketplace.

It should also be noted that there will ALWAYS be a need for hand labor for the picking of fruits and vegetables. The plants mature at varying rates and are picked as many as 15 times before the plant is through bearing fruit.

What will the rural communities do to support their economy when farmers go out of business? What businesses will replace them? Who will support the tax bases in these communities when the farmers are gone?

We all need to appreciate the American farmer and all the do. Before it's to late.

The biggest question of all is, what will the United States do in 30 years if China becomes THE world's superpower and puts a trade embargo on us that includes food?

Angelo Mancuso
Director

http://www.americanharvestmovie.com

by Angelo Mancuso (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 2 comments) on Saturday, Nov 24, 2007 at 1:37:30 PM

  (0+)

University of California at Davis just released a study on the availability of agricultural workers. You may want to check it out. They concluded there are enough workers, but that growers would have to pay more for legal employees.

by Margaret Browne (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1 comments) on Saturday, Nov 24, 2007 at 3:52:29 PM

  (0+)

I did not get any such bias from the article against the American farmer who, by the by, is increasingly an agribusiness and not a family farm. These are disappearing rather rapidly you might understand. The problem is not at all the family farm but the hiring practices of the Hunts, Del Montes, United Fruits et al. Not only do these businesses drive out the family farmer but they insert themsleves in the legislative process through large contributions that encourage legislators to continue the subsidies and refuse tariffs that might level the  playing field world wide.

Is rice not a vegetable, by the way? There are huge subsidies on that water intensive crop. In fact, Charles Schwab ( yeah that guy) owns a ten thousand acre duck hunting club outside of Sacramento and, because he grows rice to attract the ducks, receives a huge government subsidy because of that, even though he isnt by any means a farmer.

by ardee D. (6 articles, 4 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 2377 comments) on Sunday, Nov 25, 2007 at 9:20:49 AM

  (0+)

Anyone interested in a very different story (and analysis) on illegal immigration should try:

http://goupstate.us/index.php/lanefiller/2007/11/14/the_illegal_immigrant_next_door

by lane filler (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 12 comments) on Saturday, Nov 24, 2007 at 3:19:28 PM

  (0+)

Illegal Aliens and Immigration is NOT the same thing. 80% of the American people want an end to anarchy! This is NOT a Democrat, Republican, Independent issue. It's an American Issue.

Illegal aliens are criminals, those who hire them are criminals and those who aid-and-abet them are criminals.

Illegal aliens in America have NO rights.  We are required by law to arrest and prosecute, deport them. (Title 8 U.S. Code) To report illegal aliens call the DHS National Hotline 1 866 DHS 2ICE. (1-866-347-2523)

by DrColes (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 23 comments) on Saturday, Nov 24, 2007 at 6:11:06 PM

  (0+)

and whether it is consistent across the board. Do you believe in the letter of the law in all matters or just where it involves spanish speaking folks? Be honest now.

I do not believe that your statistics are at all accurate nor do I believe that this so-called "problem" is really as portrayed. It is simply a tool used by evil men currently in power to distract the simple minded from the very real problems this nation faces.

by ardee D. (6 articles, 4 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 2377 comments) on Sunday, Nov 25, 2007 at 9:24:18 AM

  (0+)

If you start from the assumption that every nation has the right to determine who is a citizen and who is not, who may enter legally and who may not, and who resides here legally and who does not, then the words illegal immigrant and immigrant are not synonymous.

That being said, it makes no sense on two levels to say that American companies should enforce the wage laws equally for legal and illegal workers. First, employers who hire illegal workers do it to save money, period. They do not want to pay minimum wage if they do not have to, period. If they are not afraid of the consequences of hiring illegal workers, they will not be afraid of the consequences of paying less than minimum wage either, unless the penalty of the former is trivial and the penalty for the latter is substantial. If the penalty of the former is trivial, then the penalty need only be increased and enforced until it hurts.

Second, even if farmers paid minimum wage, Americans do not want to work for minimum wage if they do not have to. So, it is not likely the illegal workers would be displaced with legal workers at the minimum wage. Illegal workers already displace Americans in jobs other than farming at the minimum wage. Instead, even more throngs of illegal farm workers would come to get U.S. minimum wage. The resulting influx of illegal workers from Mexico and Central America would exacerbate the existing problem in the U.S. and the failure of Mexico and Central America to provide worthwhile opportunities for their own people by providing them with a safety valve for their poor and unemployed.

No, what Americans really want is something contradictory, cheap farm products without illegal workers. They cannot have both, barring dramatic and unforeseen improvements in mechanization. If foreign workers are kept out, the only solution for farmers will be to raise wages, first to minimum wage, then in excess of minimum wage to attract workers. American workers would like this but consumers and farmers would not, because prices of farm products would have to increase. Americans would clamor for lower prices, and farmers would lobby government to increase legal immigration. Also, farmers would be pressured economically to mechanize. This would be the proper course, provided that the border can be controlled or that the workplace can be controlled, neither of which can happen if the Immigration and Naturalization Service does not do its job.

The only other course that could solve both problems is the distasteful "guest worker" system. Let workers in the country legally, but do not grant them the protection of U.S. wage laws. Pay only enough to compete with wages in their home countries, just enough to make it worthwhile for them to come and work for a specified time, and then make them go home, unless they meet additional requirements set by the INS. I do not recommend this, because it produces human rights problems and abuses of its own, but it has been done in other countries.

Unlike you propose, there are no easy answers to this problem. 

by Paul Rye (7 articles, 2 quicklinks, 22 diaries, 500 comments [44 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Saturday, Nov 24, 2007 at 9:31:02 PM

  (0+)

Rev. Rob,

Your information is confusing and in many cases incorrect. Your agricultural reform idea is 180 degrees from where we should be going. Having government subsidize machinery to put more people out of work is a viable plan?

Agriculture and manufacturing (our only two sustainable areas) are shrinking daily without any further help from government.

Moving agriculture away from the U.S. to help foreign nations is a GOOD THING? I don't even know how to respond to such ill conceived ideas. Your plan should be entitled, "How to wipe out the remaining agriculture in the U.S. with one simple document."

Paying illegals at least minimum wage? They're illegal Rob, there are laws against hiring them in the first place. WOW!

Tax loopholes for basing U.S. Corporations overseas? (take a look at the map, Mexico is actually attached). These loopholes are called NAFTA, GAT, WTO, and a host of other ageements that are LEGAL ROB.

Your understanding of basic economics is poor. And now you try to undertake macro-economics?

I am confident that you are a good man and mean well, but please write on the subjects that you understand. Misinformation can never be totally retracted .

The U.S. is on the brink of a servere recession, that is the area that we must address. We cannot help others if our own economy fails. The domestic labor pool will grow as layoffs occur throughout our economy. Many Mexicans will return to Mexico, as the job market slows and unemployed U.S. citizens reach the reality that they must work.

by Mike Folkerth (120 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 566 comments [1 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Nov 25, 2007 at 9:18:36 AM

  (0+)

I continue to be amazed at the number of people who are unaware that it is their own purchases that are the driving force for illegal immigration, just like voltage drives electricity or pressure drives the flow of water.  The same people who are hardliners against the horrific crime of picking their vegetables will have a meltdown when farmers raise their prices due to the high cost of using "legal" labor practices.  I find it hypocritical. 

If a person feels that all migrant farm workers who do not hold US citizenship are indeed illegal, then they should investigate where their food comes from and not buy from any source that has such labor.  Of course, that would be difficult, because I'm not sure anyone could stay in business that did not use non-citizen migrant workers.

If a person is willing to buy and eat food supplied by non-citizen workers, then that person should have the decency to see that the workers who supply their food have human rights equivalent to their own.

by Steve Slocum (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 21 comments) on Sunday, Nov 25, 2007 at 10:19:56 AM

  (0+)

In some parts of the country crops rotted because there were no workers to harvest the crops.  My own relatives in Kentucky had major problems finding workers this year.

The agriculture industry is changing, with many family farmers being driven out by a series of forces, which include allegations of financial sabotage in the form of counterfeit loans, farm program corruption and undue influence by mega agribusinesses.

Americans neglect farm policy at their peril: oil runs our cars, food runs our bodies.  Which one can you give up?

by M. Davis (63 articles, 3 quicklinks, 17 diaries, 221 comments [4 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Nov 25, 2007 at 10:39:45 AM

  (0+)

snip:

Unskilled laborers will be able to find work in their own countries, and the next generation that they produce might not be so unskilled as their parents.

If all things in South America were equal, that might be true, but they are not. The rise in gasohol production around the world is seeing a revolution in agriculture and demographics.  Mega-agriculture corporations are buying massive amounts of forest and jungle, clearing the land with slash and burn techniques, displacing under force of arms tens of thousands of indigenous people.

In South America, those people are on the move, forced out of their homes, wandering north to Mexico, and beyond. As I have written in several OPEDNEWS articles, these people are winding up in towns in Indiana, Michigan and beyond.

All the way to Indiana from the Andes. Wow--what a road trip.

Unless we address the issue of corn and what gasohol does to the world corn industry and agriculture as a whole, how the displacement of native crops and jungles by corn growers in South America is fueling northward migration, we'll just be spitting in the wind.

The knee jerk jingoism and economic illiteracy which fuels much of the alleged debate on  "illegal immigration" deflects realistic discussion and decision making. Agriculture is changing--often for the worse, as it becomes mired in empty  headed, jingoistic politics, whose practitioners cant see the dying forests for the burning trees.

by M. Davis (63 articles, 3 quicklinks, 17 diaries, 221 comments [4 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Nov 25, 2007 at 10:51:10 AM

  (0+)

Professor David Pimentel, Cornell University has been waving this flag for years to no avail. Dr. Pimentel calls ethanol production, "The biggest boondoggle ever bestowed on the American people." He also refers to it as "the subsidized burning of food."

If every available acre of productive land in the U.S. were planted and converted to ethanol (no food) it would produce approximately 14% of the auto fuel alone, that we currently consume. If that is not a show stopper, maybe it will take food shortages or corn flakes at $20 per box.

by Mike Folkerth (120 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 566 comments [1 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Nov 25, 2007 at 11:44:13 AM

  (0+)

Your article made some good points but I don't agree with all of them. Illegal immigrants reside everywhere in the U.S. not just in agriculture areas. It is getting very hard for agriculture to hire illegals because most of them have found that non agriculture jobs pay better and are not as hard.

My solution for solving the illegal immigration problem is prison time for employers who hire illegal immigrants. If agriculture cries about not being able to attract workers let the greedy bastards pay more wages. Its time wages went up across the board for the working class, If this does not happen the distribution of wealth will be unfair and the top 1 percent of the population will own almost everything.

America is now at a point in history were wealth resides in the top three percent, much like it was in the 1920s just before the great depression. Allow the shortage of labor to work in a free market manner and raise wages. They let the oil companies raise prices for shortage of oil in a free market manner, why not labor?

by Gary Denson (2 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 283 comments) on Sunday, Nov 25, 2007 at 2:38:35 PM

  (0+)