A boyish, inquisitive face with an innocent look peered out from the Washington Post’s lead story yesterday on torture. It was well groomed, pink-shirted John Kiriakou, a CIA interrogator who could just as easily pass for the local youth minister
The report by the Post’s Joby Warrick and Dan Eggen, which describes Kiriakou’s experience in interrogating suspected terrorists, raises in an unusually direct way an abiding question: Should the United States of America be using forms of torture dating back to the Spanish Inquisition?
Nowhere is the mood of that infamous period better portrayed than in the famous Grand Inquisitor chapter of Dostoyevsky’s Brothers Karamazov. Dostoevsky was unusually gifted at plumbing the human heart. While it has been 127 years since he wrote Brothers Karamazov, he nonetheless captures the trap into which so many Americans have fallen in forfeiting freedom through fear. His portrayal of Inquisition reality brings us to the brink of the moral precipice on which our country teeters today. It is as though he knew what would be in store for us as fear was artificially stoked after the attacks of 9/11.
In the story, Dostoevsky’s Grand Inquisitor (the Cardinal of Seville) ridicules Christ for imposing on humans the heavy burden of freedom of conscience, and explains how it is far better, for all concerned, to dull that conscience and to rule by deceit, violence, and fear:
“Didst thou forget that man prefers peace, and even death, to freedom of choice in the knowledge of good and evil?...We teach them that it’s not the free judgment of their hearts, but mystery which they must follow blindly, even against their conscience.... In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet [and] become obedient...We shall tell them that we are Thy servants and rule them in Thy name.... we shall be forced to lie.... We shall tell them that every sin will be expiated if it is done with our permission.” The Grand Inquisitor, in Brothers Karamazov
Kiriakou was one of the first interrogators to interview suspected terrorist Abu Zubayda in a Pakistani military hospital, where Zubayda was recovering from wounds suffered during his capture in early 2002. When he refused to provide information about al-Qaeda’s infrastructure, he was flown to a secret CIA prison where, according to Kiriakou, the interrogation team strapped Abu Zubayda to a board, wrapped his nose and mouth in cellophane, and forced water into his throat. In just 35 seconds, viola! Abu Zubayda starting talking. That is called waterboarding.
The 15 & 16 Century Spanish inquisitors were not squeamish, and had little need for circumlocutions or euphemisms like “alternative set of procedures” that are part of President George W. Bush’s lexicon. The Spanish called this procedure, quite plainly, “tortura del agua.” Lacking cellophane, they inserted a cloth into the victim’s mouth, forcing the victim to ingest water spilled from a jar starting the drowning process. Four centuries later, the Gestapo put out several technically improved releases of this operating system of torture, so to speak.
Quick; someone please tell newly confirmed Attorney General Michael Mukasey, who told reporters yesterday he still cannot decide whether waterboarding is torture.
Abu Zubayda: Poster Child
The information from John Kiriakou confirms what has long been a no-brainer but not definitively established before; namely, that President George W. Bush’s “alternative set of procedures” for interrogation by C.I.A. includes waterboarding. Zubayda was given pride of place in George W. Bush’s remarkable speech of Sept. 6, 2006, in which he bragged about the effectiveness of such procedures and appealed successfully for passage of the Military Commissions Act. That law allows a president to define what set of interrogation procedures can be used by the C.I.A. This is Bush on Sept. 6, 2006:
We believe that Zubayda was a senior terrorist leader and a trusted associate of Osama bin Laden...[and that] he had run a terrorist camp in Afghanistan where some of the 9/11 hijackers trained...We knew that Zubayda had more information that could save innocent lives, but he stopped talking...And so the CIA used an alternative set of procedures...The Department of Justice reviewed the authorized methods extensively and determined them to be lawful.... But I can say the procedures were tough, and they were safe, and lawful, and necessary. Zubayda was questioned using these procedures, and soon he began to provide information on key al-Qaeda operatives, including information that helped us find and capture more of those responsible for the attacks on September the 11th. For example, Zubayda identified one of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed’s accomplices in the 9/11 attacks -- a terrorist named Ramzi bin al Shibh. The information Zubayda provided helped lead to the capture of bin al Shibh. And together these two terrorists provided information that helped in the planning and execution of the operation that captured Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.
Bush claimed that his interrogation program had saved lives, and Kiriakou says the use of waterboarding “probably saved lives.” We cannot know for sure if this is true. Off-the-record interviews with intelligence officials strongly suggest that there is much prevarication and exaggeration in president’s claims about lives saved and operations disrupted, and that the his assertions merit no more credulity than other claims—for example, that Iran’s nuclear weapons program poses a threat to the U.S., even though it has been stopped for four years.
Other U.S. intelligence officials take issue with the C.I.A.’s version of the questioning of Zubayda. Some say that initially he was cooperating with F.B.I. interrogators using a nonconfrontational approach, when C.I.A. assumed control and opted for more aggressive tactics. After that experience, the F.B.I. reportedly warned its agents to avoid interrogation sessions at which harsh methods were used.
As for credibility, never has a U.S. president’s word been so cheapened as it is today. In late July 2007, we Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity joined with Justin Frank, MD, psychiatrist, professor at George Washington University Hospital, and author of “Bush on the Couch,” to search for insight on how President Bush thinks. See “Dangers of a Cornered Bush,” http://www.consortiumnews.com/Print/2007/072707a.html, from which we excerpt the following:
His pathology is a patchwork of false beliefs and incomplete information woven into what he asserts is the whole truth...He lies—not just to us, but to himself as well...What makes lying so easy for Bush is his contempt—for language, for law, and for anybody who dares question him.... So his words mean nothing. That is very important for people to understand.
This Is Oversight?
The past few weeks have witnessed an unseemly square dance in Congress, highlighting conflicting claims about what those who are supposed to be overseeing the intelligence community knew and when they knew it—about torture, about Iran, about many things. It is nothing short of an insult to the Founders that members of the House and Senate can find nothing more useful to do than wring their hands over their largely self-inflicted powerlessness.
Lawmakers have been so thoroughly intimidated by the White House that I get physically ill watching the likes of Nancy Pelosi, Jane Harman, Bob Graham, and Jay Rockefeller moan about how secretive and nasty the Bush administration has been. Harman complained recently that when she was ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee some of the material (on interrogations) was so highly classified that she had to take a “second oath” to protect it.
What about the solemn oath they all take to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic? Should not that oath transcend and govern others that an administration might require for access to secret materials?
Ray McGovern works with Tell the Word, the publishing arm of the ecumenical Church of the Saviour in Washington, DC. During his 27-years as a CIA analyst, he chaired NIEs: he is now on the Steering Group of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS).
I repeat here my sermon on Torture from 11/2005-again!
The topic of torture is back on the first page considering the CIA secret places in Eastern Europe. As usual all sides have that in common that all of them exhibit a genuine surprise as if they never knew about what CIA was ever doing. As if we all thought until today that CIA consists of Jack Ryans, degree et al. As if we never knew of Chile and the Dignidad colony. As if we never knew about other nice deeds of the CIA people in Guatemala, for instance. No, Sir. We have just found out that they are professional torturers and by God, here comes the split: the liberals are appalled by the fact itself and the so- called conservatives are appalled by.. the fact that it was revealed. Go figure who is more insane. I guess the former are deliberately stupid and insane and the latter are evil and insane. What a choice!
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One of the most insane statements I have read recently was a liberal argument that “ ..Torture does not work. We don’t get needed info ..”. Mea Culpa, in the Y2003 I myself used that argument because… I thought we were rational people and have just gone astray. But by today I know better. So, here is a question; What if it did work? Then the liberals would say OK, let’s go for it? I have news for you, folks. Torture does work. It does exactly what it is designed for- it makes people inhuman. All people but the victim. That is what the torture is for. No other purpose is sought. By the Providence of God torture of the human being for whatever reason is an inhuman act and that’s how God distinguishes between the humans and ..others. Thus here is something else for you all, my darlings:
The definition of torture is simple- it is inflicting on the other what you don’t want to be inflicted on thyself unless you are a psychopathic masochist (those do not qualify as torturers, they are just sick). As such:
· Anyone who does torture directly is evil and has to be destroyed. · Anyone who willfully orders torture is evil and has to be destroyed. · Anyone who sees torture and does not stop it even by killing the torturer is not human anymore. · Anyone who helps to perform torture professionally (doctors, lawyers, technical personnel) have lost their humanity and are to be put into tar and feathers. · Anyone who justifies torture by any argument whatsoever is sick and has to be committed to the mental hospital. · Anyone who considers torture as a possible part of the police or any other interrogation is subhuman and cannot be trusted with any job or entrusted to become a parent. · Anyone who promotes torture or pain on the human being for money is a rabid dog and has to be treated as such. · Anyone who ‘discusses’ torture in any way other than absolutely negative statement is a damned demagogue and will burn in Hell with the shoe in his mouth. · Any member of the Christian denomination who does not curse the torturers in his prayers every day is not a real Christian and has to be excommunicated. · Any parent who does not tell his children that torturing people is out of the question under any circumstance has to be stripped of the parental rights. · Any person who pretends to be deliberately naïve and performs torture when given direct orders is a damned fool because those people are witnesses and are the first target for elimination. · And last but not least: Any nation which openly discusses torture from the position whether that thing is “useful or not, works or not, helps or not” is not a nation but a mob. And the mob does not deserve a democracy.
There is no excuse for torture. No discussion, no limits, no small, no big, no plus, no minus, no pro, no con. Joking about torture is evil. Listening to the discussion of torture is evil because there is nothing to discuss. Considering it as an option is evil. A person can kill another human being and still remain human. But torturers become inhuman as soon as they do it once and there is no way back. Torture is a Devil's invention and everyone who somehow touches it becomes a Devil's brood. End of the story.
When I wrote my first essay on torture in the Y2003 some people said that I was too angry. Damn right I am. I don't like the Devil's brood. And I especially don't like people who knowingly embrace the Devil while pretending that they do not know what the Hell are they doing. That's a spiritual stupidity of the worst kind. Shame on you, people. How can you? How can you be so stupid?
PS. There is a persistent statement in the media that ' if someone planted a nuclear device and a person in custody knows where it is you can torture this person because of the circumstances' I am not even discussing this kind of lunacy. ' If someone planted and you know..."If you know all that- just go find it. Now, how do you know a person in custody has the info? He told you? He is willing to die? All of that is not relevant. Such situations happened many times and the real humans know how to deal with them: you put the person responsible in the same situation as the victims. That means you ask a question about a whereabouts of the device. Then, if a person refuses to answer you calmly tell this person that after the blast occurs you will execute him/her. That is that simple. If the nuclear blast takes place the real, normal life on this planet is off anyway. So you will exercise justice if you are a real human being. That is all. But you will remain a human until the end.
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Mark Sashine (44 articles, 19 quicklinks, 228 diaries, 3254 comments)
on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 at 1:08:12 PM
I'm still flabbergasted. When the word "torture" first reared it's ugly head I couldn't even believe it was being discussed, let alone practiced and preached as a "necessary evil" openly, as though it were something we kept on the shelf and used on rare occasions. NOOOOO - never, it shouldn't even be in the house. Not even considered, not even thought. I simply don't understand why anyone can miss the point that one does not defeat the beast by becoming the beast.
Now, not being naive, one knows that in the dark corridors there are those, when left to their own devices with no oversight, will torture. Spend a week in any of our penal institutions and you'll find that out in short order. In every war and conflict, the throwing of prisoners from helicopters in Vietnam is well documented, torture can be found in isolated or not so isolated instances. None of this makes torture right. In a just world the inflicter would feel the pain of the inflicted times two.
But we don't live in a just world, not even a just country, not anymore, if it ever was one. But that doesn't negate us from suspending our conscience or getting away from the reality that we must at all times be vigilant and seek to root out the evil that lurks within ourselves and society. If we stop that, we're doomed to continue down the path of ruin.
And it seems we've already passed that gate. What we are witnessing now are politicians who unwittingly and/or knowingly did not blink when made aware long ago that the beast was loose and did nothing to stop it. So each is looking to the other for an answer as to how they can best cover their asses rather than take the punishment they so richly deserve. Some have gone as far as to say that a practice that has been defined as torture for centuries, really isn't torture, but akin to swimming backwards in a swimming pool. I weep for this country.
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Mr M (4 articles, 0 quicklinks, 5 diaries, 1056 comments)
on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 at 2:03:15 PM
Get involved and stand for a righteous America again.
Torture is just plan wrong.The only problem is America is becoming morally bankrupt.We have violent programming on just about all the TV channels.Teenagers play video games that are almost lifelike killing and maiming other humans.
Movies like Hostel and Saw are desensitizing and getting our teens to accept that type of violence.
What is the answer?We must as parents teach and guide our children toward righteousness instead of watching too much TV do something as a family.Get involved and stand for a righteous America again.
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Michael Chavers (40 articles, 0 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 165 comments)
on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 at 4:07:00 PM
Why would they bother? Why would they spend all those man-hours and resources on you? The fact that you were the one that contacted them for a job, I don't find it suspicious that they would do some covert investigation on anyone requesting to work within the Agency, after all they are a "spy" agency, but to send all these different agents to all these different places to - do what? - check-up on one potential employee?
Look, don't get me wrong. I'm been an activist in one form or the other most my life. Helped start one of the first environmental research institutes and knew back then that we had to do screening of potential "plants". Rooting out agitators posing as peaceful demonstrators was also part of what we watched out for. You start to organize anything in this country that even looks like it might have political fallout and you can pretty much be assured someone from one of the agencies is going to investigate you and/or infiltrate the group. I have no doubt they have agents that monitor these sites. I think they'd be remiss if they didn't. I'm not condoning it, I'm just saying they most likely are. Indeed some of the methods the authorities would use were comical in their obviousness, but to the extent that one person would draw so much attention just for applying for a job?
I have no doubt that you received some scrutiny by apply for a job in a spy agency, but to have half a dozen agents following you around seems a little over the top.
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Mr M (4 articles, 0 quicklinks, 5 diaries, 1056 comments)
on Thursday, December 13, 2007 at 11:54:20 AM
We citizens of this nation who listen to the smarmy and untruthful rantings of George Walker Bush regarding torture and refuse to speak against him, we who listen to our elected officials debate the merits of such actions and do nothing, we who would vote again for any seated member of Congress who has refused to take a firm stand against illegal invasions, torture and the cycle of death, not only of human beings but of principles and moral values, we are guilty as hell.
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ardee D. (6 articles, 4 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 2388 comments)
on Thursday, December 13, 2007 at 11:04:28 AM
First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist; Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist; Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist; Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew; Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out. -Martin Niemöller
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memary (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 70 comments)
on Thursday, December 13, 2007 at 2:45:44 PM
