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August 23, 2007 at 14:23:09

Socialism in America Equals Hope for the World

by Paul Donovan (Posted by Jason Miller)     Page 1 of 6 page(s)

www.opednews.com

 
 
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Thomas Paine's Corner 

http://www.bestcyrano.org/THOMASPAINE/?p=230 

“The only thing most American know about socialism is they don’t like it. They have been led to believe that socialism is something to be either ridiculed as impractical, or feared as an instrument of the devil.”

–Leo Huberman

It is in fact difficult to shed light on what a socialist United States will look like, mostly because many think socialism, or other forms of publicly owned, and democratically controlled economies is an impossible goal to achieve in our country, mostly due to the hyper capitalist mentality of our nation, the strength of our ruling classes, and the overwhelmingly successful propaganda apparatus of the corporate system, which comprises the media, educational system, and many other venues, including the religious and political pulpit, and is reflected in the apathy, alarming confusion, and at times, indifference of our nation’s citizens, many of whom simply don’t know, don’t want to know, or don’t care where this country is headed (for a terrific insight into this puzzling and exasperating mindset I strongly recommend Deer Hunting with Jesus, by Joe Bageant, who also happens to be one of Cyrano’s senior contributing editors).

However, the capitalist systems own irrepressible dynamics and “make up”—which easily translate into a bill of indictment—are bringing about yet another wave of global repulsion and re-awakenings. In this framework, when I speak of this dynamic I am referring not so much to the more technical aspects of this phenomenon, but to its mass-perceived aspects, such as the following (in no particular order):

• the intense class stratification of the capitalist system itself, and the sharp and rising polarization in domestic and global wealth;

• the inherent exploitative nature of business with its constant siphoning off of surplus value from labor, and the system’s parasitic necessity to transform all living nature into commodities with near complete disregard of the environmental consequences;

• the unrelenting wars between capitalist nation states spawned by the age-old compulsion to grab new markets, and which issue from the constant need by the core ” industrialized nations” to meddle in nearly all political and economic affairs of the world’s sovereign “periphery nations” (there has never been a war between socialist states as such, other than those instigated by Western meddling, as in Indochina);

• the extensive commoditization of human culture;

• the implantation of usurious trade institutions, such as the WTO, IMF, and World Bank which serve as a supranational unelected government for the corporate elite , often nullifying local and national policies;

• the despair and ” atomization” felt in the souls of people as a result of pinning human against human in an eternal and inescapable predatory battle for basic subsistence, better jobs or to simply outdo or out perform our neighbors, something that inevitably leads to a sense of depression among many resulting from the loss of community and the working together for the common good;

• the outsourcing of jobs by our so called “American companies” at the first sign of a potential cheap labor market, the corporate crime, and political lobbying of invidious special interest groups, the purchasing of our so-called democratic elections; the alienation people have from the goods they create with their own hands, hearts, and minds, and the constant job insecurity in conjunction with often being over worked and underpaid;

• the outrageous health care costs in all of the medical system’s dimensions, from the extortionate cost of drugs, perhaps the biggest rip-off in the history of the American republic, to the corrosion in hospital care induced by the relentless pursuit of profit instead of the duty to serve the population;

• the booms, busts, and constant recessions of the market, along with the crime brought about by joblessness, a social blight that gives way to helplessness, addiction, domestic violence, ghettos and gang violence, and many other totally avoidable factors and expensive social costs whose burden is borne by the people;

• an educational system that trains and conditions young people to value material success above a humanistic education, something that, as Joe Bageant points out, makes untold numbers of people mere members of the economy, but not citizens of society or the nation in any real sense;

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8 comments

My name it means nothing, my age it means less. My deeds of activism are mine to enjoy and share as I feel necesary, not as some clown in a small forum's administration thinks I must..This place gets worse each and every visit.
Member banned on June 3, 2008 for repeated abuse of editors.

ardee D.My name it means nothing, my age it means less. My deeds of activism are mine to enjoy and share as I feel necesary, not as some clown in a small forum's administration thinks I must..This place gets worse each and every visit.
Member banned on June 3, 2008 for repeated abuse of editors.

The inevitability of Socialism

Capitalism eats itself and thus will bring about its own demise. I know not how many folks will take the effort to wade through this overlong (sorry) article. I myself skimmed it and may very well go back and read it in depth, or not. The short attention span is rather typical of an American these days, myself included apparently.

I am inclined to a system wherein capitalism has its place, though more controlled than currently noted, and socialism belongs as we find in Scandinavia, to such as health care and other essential to the citizen endeavors.

Debs was cited a couple of times and I will do so as well:

"While there is a lower class, I am in it. While there is a criminal element, I am of it; and while there is a soul in prison I am not free." 

There might be widespread resistance to socialism among those who simply do not understand what it brings or even its essential nature, believing it to be communism, which of course it is not.

Debs again:

"When great changes occur in history, where great principles are involved, as a rule, the majority is wrong."

by ardee D. (6 articles, 4 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 2388 comments) on Thursday, August 23, 2007 at 6:21:26 PM
 


I was born in Los Angeles and raised in Mexico City. I have travelled throughout Latin America, Europe and Arfica. We're all the same.
GuajolotlI was born in Los Angeles and raised in Mexico City. I have travelled throughout Latin America, Europe and Arfica. We're all the same.

THE WORM IS TURNING

The American ruling class has for generations ground its heel into the faces of its working people--of all colors---and left them to fend for themselves. As things get worse, as the economy falters, the oligarchy shows its true colors-- they are the ones who dont give a damn about their own country as long as they can make a buck. Flag-waving "patriots" and their mentors are the ones who are the greatest danger to this country--- from alienating and impoverishing its people to wrecking the environment. People are getting tired of it. Capitalists will have to pay for their crimes, and I think they too, in spite of their utter dimness, are beginning to see that people are not buying crap any more. This makes them desperate and dangerous and very very afraid. Lets all sit back and enjoy watching them squirm as their precious economy rushes down the toilet.

by Guajolotl (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 132 comments) on Thursday, August 23, 2007 at 7:32:21 PM
 


Politically, I lean Libertarian. When discussing issues, I will slam Dems and/or Republicans.

Now, when it comes to really irritating me, just make an unfounded charge; I will clobber whomever makes the charge if there are no facts to back it up! Another version of this is when I see something that is just plainly silly/ridiculous.

An example could be something stated which could be very easily disproved. Another example, and I see this frequently: Rather than...

to see more of bio, click on member name

steve scheetzPolitically, I lean Libertarian. When discussing issues, I will slam Dems and/or Republicans.

Now, when it comes to really irritating me, just make an unfounded charge; I will clobber whomever makes the charge if there are no facts to back it up! Another version of this is when I see something that is just plainly silly/ridiculous.

An example could be something stated which could be very easily disproved. Another example, and I see this frequently: Rather than...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Socialism in America equals DOOM for America

It is in fact difficult to shed light on what a socialist United States

Um, not really...  let's look at France, whose political system is socialistic, in nature...  It's unemployment rate is off of the charts high, the tax burdon takes away all motivation for anyone to do anything other than live off of the government, and oh yeah...  With the Socialistic form of government, we will have universal health car, where a government bureaucrat, who can not be fired, can tell you if, in fact, you are ALLOWED to have that operation...

 The rest of the world would be happy to see the US economy crash, right??  Well, maybe, maybe not.  what happens to their money (which is heavily invested in the US economy) if the US economy fails?  Think their money would be worth anything then?  

If the US Fails, the world fails right along with it..  it is the laws of simple economics..

 

However, instead of the third world being miserable, everyone will be miserable..  then, I guess, everyone will be happy since we will be all, equally miserable... 

 

 Ciao, CZ

by steve scheetz (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 494 comments) on Friday, August 24, 2007 at 11:59:20 AM
 


Been around the block a few times.
Blue PilgrimBeen around the block a few times.

Sweden

is doing OK, and it's rather socialistic. France has it's own problems, but socialism doesn't mean a country never has problems -- yet France is hardly bankrupt -- the US is in terrible trouble however, as the largest debtor nation in the world.

You just don't understand what socialism is. Nor universal health care -- which is excellent in France, and the other nations which have it. Here we have some insurance company clerk who tells you can't have an operation, but that's not really the way it works with universal health care, and you always have to option of paying for it yourself like all the uninsured and underinsured have in the US now.

by Blue Pilgrim (0 articles, 3 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 998 comments) on Friday, August 24, 2007 at 2:35:48 PM
 


Richard Mynick is a US citizen who, despite the best efforts of the corporate media, noticed something disturbing about how the 2000 election was decided, & felt it augured poorly for democracy.
Richard MynickRichard Mynick is a US citizen who, despite the best efforts of the corporate media, noticed something disturbing about how the 2000 election was decided, & felt it augured poorly for democracy.

Unintentionally hilarious response. You demonstrate in your

first sentence not only that you have no idea what socialism really is, but also that you can't spell or write grammatically correct sentences.

If you think France is an example of "socialism," you just don't know enough to even be in this discussion. // Standards of living in several of the Scandinavian countries are just as high as in the US, and they also (like France) have social-democratic forms of government. (Notice the word "social-democracy." Do you know what it means? Do you think it's the same thing as "socialism"?)

You then further embarrass yourself with your ignorant remark about universal health care: "...where a government bureaucrat, who can not be fired, can tell you if, in fact, you are ALLOWED to have that operation."  If you took yourself out to see the movie "Sicko," you'd realize that in the USA, bureaucrats at insurance companies & HMO's do exactly the same thing. (There's interesting footage in Sicko of an insurance company bureacrat testifying before Congress that she was given bonuses & promotions for denying people coverage for various medical procedures -- in some cases leading to their death.)

Finally, though it's unrelated to the article, you toss out this non sequitur: "The rest of the world would be happy to see the US economy crash, right??...If the US Fails, the world fails right along with it." What does that have to do with socialism? Why did you even mention it? Is it supposed to prove how "big and strong" capitalism is?

by Richard Mynick (2 articles, 3 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 1104 comments) on Friday, August 24, 2007 at 8:04:19 PM
 


Politically, I lean Libertarian. When discussing issues, I will slam Dems and/or Republicans.

Now, when it comes to really irritating me, just make an unfounded charge; I will clobber whomever makes the charge if there are no facts to back it up! Another version of this is when I see something that is just plainly silly/ridiculous.

An example could be something stated which could be very easily disproved. Another example, and I see this frequently: Rather than...

to see more of bio, click on member name

steve scheetzPolitically, I lean Libertarian. When discussing issues, I will slam Dems and/or Republicans.

Now, when it comes to really irritating me, just make an unfounded charge; I will clobber whomever makes the charge if there are no facts to back it up! Another version of this is when I see something that is just plainly silly/ridiculous.

An example could be something stated which could be very easily disproved. Another example, and I see this frequently: Rather than...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Then move to Scandinavia ...

If I saw the movie Sicko...  Oh that has got to be the best source of facts ever, right?  I don't seem to recall suggesting that our system is good, did I say that?  Ummm  NO, I did not...  In fact, our system sucks!  It is working on a universal healthcare style, only we have insurance company paid bureaucrats instead of government bureaucrats..  Oh that is so much better right?

 If the Universal healthcare system is so great, Why do the people in England all have bad teeth?

Why do the older people, in England, who can afford to come to the US, Come here for operations or to have procedures done?

 Your points  really demonstrate a lack of any sort knowledge about anything...  For example, you compare Scandinavia to the US...

you compare 5 countries with the combined population of New York City... However, beyond that, let's take the best of the bunch, Sweden.  1/3rd of its population of less than 9 million people are employeed by the Swedish Government.  The Swedes pay less in taxes that we do, here in the US, they have 7% unemployment compared to our 4.5% unemployment...

 

Health care?  Why don't I let a Swede tell you about their healthcare??

Actually, when taking a closer look at Sweden's healthcare system, it becomes evident that it really works as a Soviet economy. One of the most obvious symptoms of communism is queuelines. The demand for a good becomes significantly larger than the supply of it. A good which is priced at zero will be overused, at the same time, the supply side will be reduced since there are no incentives to rationalize or move into the market. You know the scenery: empty shelves, people queueing up for rotten bread. Or rotten healthcare. In Sweden, our enchanted, beloved communist healthcare system lets people wait for more than two years before they can get certain surgeries. Welfare state? Hardly, except for the politicians and bureaucrats of course, who somehow manage to pass by the queues and enrich themselves at the expense of others. It almost sounds too Soviet to be true.

 

The issue with about socialism, can be directly translated to the way our own government works...  Let's take a failed policy and try it again, because it has been some time since it has been proven a failure, maybe when we do it again, it will work..  We can't try something different, because we don't know if the something different will work..  However, since we know this program failed, we should try it again instead..

Socialism and socialistic policies (universal health care) are failing all over the world, but some people want to try it in the US because it will be better since WE are doing it, and we can do it much better than the rest of the world! 

That is the most absurd style of thought I have come across!  There are ways to improve our health care system...  First of all, our Insurance Companies have limited our choices as to what doctors we are "allowed" to go and see...  Maybe, if we could choose doctors, doctors who would have to compete for business, would lower the cost of services..  Oh wait, we don't care about costs, because the insurance is paying for it..  Hmmmm  Well, our insurance companies have no motivation for changing the way they do business, so that is a problem..  

I do know that our insurance companies have been donating to the politicians in DC so that they would not have to conform to the same standards as other businesses in this nation.. Same with the Drug Companies.  Our drug companies are allowed to sell drugs to Canada for so much less that it pays people to buy the drugs from Canada instead of their local Walmart!  

Currently, these problems have been caused by politicians, but you think that putting a politician in charge of more of the health care system will solve the issues I have raised??  Our friend from Sweden begs to differ..

 

Ciao, CZ   

 

by steve scheetz (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 494 comments) on Saturday, August 25, 2007 at 12:24:43 PM
 


Politically, I lean Libertarian. When discussing issues, I will slam Dems and/or Republicans.

Now, when it comes to really irritating me, just make an unfounded charge; I will clobber whomever makes the charge if there are no facts to back it up! Another version of this is when I see something that is just plainly silly/ridiculous.

An example could be something stated which could be very easily disproved. Another example, and I see this frequently: Rather than...

to see more of bio, click on member name

steve scheetzPolitically, I lean Libertarian. When discussing issues, I will slam Dems and/or Republicans.

Now, when it comes to really irritating me, just make an unfounded charge; I will clobber whomever makes the charge if there are no facts to back it up! Another version of this is when I see something that is just plainly silly/ridiculous.

An example could be something stated which could be very easily disproved. Another example, and I see this frequently: Rather than...

to see more of bio, click on member name

I am sort of at a loss...

nobody commented on a socialist bashing a socialist system...  Some of you..  Scratch that..  MOST of you here claim to be the gurus of socialism, particularly when you tell someone else that he does not.. 

 

Reality is very simple...  I DO understand what I am talking about when it comes to socialism..  The disconnect happens when you are trying to compare the utopian ideal of socialism to how reality plays in the world today...  Socialism will NEVER work, unless you are able to somehow abolish the human ego.

You gentlemen have proved this point right here, on this very thread...  Dignity and reputation?  What is the point of the human experience if not to learn and teach?  If we have a disagreement, and I keep silent, so as to "keep my dignity"  I will lose my self respect...

 

Something to think about.

 

Ciao, CZ 

by steve scheetz (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 494 comments) on Monday, August 27, 2007 at 7:17:15 AM
 

 

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