that the government hasn't told us the truth.

Do I like the way space beam theories sound to those who may be new to the movement...of course not, but thermate and controlled demolition alone would not explain all the toasted cars in neighboring  parking lots...I believe that there is much we can not possibly know...we may not even have access to all the weaponry available to our government...as a matter of fact, I would put money on that.

We mustn't discount the work of any scientists until we have all the facts...all theories must be considered.  All that matters is the government's theory has undoubtedly been disproved...beyond that-is anyone's guess.  

Let us not judge until we know...through an independent investigation. 

by sherry clark (47 articles, 0 quicklinks, 4 diaries, 116 comments [4 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Tuesday, Sep 11, 2007 at 3:16:11 PM

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"All that we need agree on is...that the government hasn't told us the truth."

Wrong.  That leaves open the possibility that they are merely covering up "incompetence," which has been the liberal (bogus) critique since day one. 

As for your acceptance of deliberate disinformation as "science," you should see Dr. Steven Jones' response to Fetzer et. al. at the Arizona conference earlier this year.  Jones begins about 30 minutes in:

http://www.911blogger.com/node/6451?page=2 

by johndoraemi (17 articles, 12 quicklinks, 6 diaries, 166 comments [3 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 12:00:51 AM

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but not for any well researched scientific reason.  At a talk by Bob Bowman earlier this year I got to meet him.  (WT) and he was quite unimpressive, as actually bob himself also came across.

He was not in favor of impeaching cheney via HR 333 and that struck me as odd, his reasoning being facile, circuitous and cowardly.   This was in Takoma Park Maryland, and I was out for bear.  In Tarpley and Bowman I got mostly warmed over chicken.

I didn't know until now that he was leaning to the Buck Rogers, Langley authored Super Duper Death Ray comic strip diversion.  But as destructive as such silliness can be to our cause the first commenter has a point that it does not matter so very much if we can agree to get real investigations started.   We do not know exactly what happened.  We know forces within our government are complicit and we know we will not rest until they and all of their enablers(a very long list indeed)  meet the fate that is their due. 

by CamusRebel (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 100 comments [29 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Sep 11, 2007 at 9:06:34 PM

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Do you Remember THIS????  
? Thought you might be interested in this forgotten bit of 
information........  

 It was 1987! At a lecture the other day they were playing an old news video of Lt. Col. Oliver North testifying at the Iran-Contra hearings during the Reagan Administration.

There was Ollie in front of God and country getting the third degree, but  what he said was stunning! 

He was being drilled by a senator; "Did you not recently spend close to  $60,000 for a home security system?" 
 
Ollie replied, "Yes, I did, Sir." 
 
The senator continued, trying to get a laugh out of the audience, "Isn't  that just a little excessive?" 
 
"No, sir," continued Ollie. 
 
"No? And why not?" the senator asked. 
 
"Because the lives of my family and I were threatened, sir." 
 
"Threatened? By whom?" the senator questioned. 
 
"By a terrorist, sir" Ollie answered. 
 
"Terrorist? What terrorist could possibly scare you that much?" 
 
"His name is Osama bin Laden, sir" Ollie replied. 
 
At this point the senator tried to repeat the name, but couldn't pronounce  it, which most people back then probably couldn't. A couple of people laughed at  the attempt. Then the senator continued. Why are you so afraid of this man?" the  senator asked 
 
"Because, sir, he is the most evil person alive that I know of", Ollie 
answered. 
 
"And what do you recommend we do about him?" asked the senator. 
 
"Well, sir, if it was up to me, I would recommend that an assassin team be  formed to eliminate him and his men from the face of the earth." 
 
The senator disagreed with this, and that was all that was shown of  the clip. 
 
 
By the way, that senator was Al Gore! 
 
Also: 
 
Terrorist pilot Mohammad Atta blew up a bus in Israel in 1986. The
Israelis  captured, tried and imprisoned him. As part of the Oslo agreement with the  Palestinians in 1993, Israel had to agree to release so-called "political  prisoners." 
 
However, the Israelis would not release any with blood on their hands, The  American President at the time, Bill Clinton, and his Secretary of State, Warren  Christopher, "insisted" that all prisoners be released. 

Thus Mohammad Atta was freed and eventually thanked the US by flying an  airplane into Tower One of the World Trade Center . This was reported by many of  the American TV networks at the time that the terrorists were first identified.  It was censored in the US from all later reports. 
 
I think the American public should be made aware of these facts .
. 

by Dom Jermano (20 articles, 0 quicklinks, 40 diaries, 930 comments) on Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 7:02:26 PM

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Like so many contradictions I found this:

FROM THE DESK OF LTCOL OLIVER L. NORTH (USMC) RET.

NOVEMBER 28, 2001

OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST SEVERAL WEEKS, I HAVE RECEIVED SEVERAL THOUSAND E-MAILS FROM EVERY STATE IN THE U.S. AND 13 FOREIGN COUNTRIES IN WHICH THE ORIGINATOR PURPORTS TO HAVE RECENTLY VIEWED A VIDEOTAPE OF MY SWORN TESTIMONY BEFORE A CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEE IN 1987.

A COPY OF ONE OF THOSE E-MAILS IS ATTACHED BELOW. AS YOU WILL NOTE, THE ORIGINATOR ATTRIBUTES TO ME CERTAIN STATEMENTS REGARDING USAMA BIN LADEN AND OTHER MATTERS THAT ARE SIMPLY INACCURATE. THOUGH I WOULD LIKE TO CLAIM THE GIFT OF PROPHESY, I DON'T HAVE IT.

I DON'T KNOW WHO SAW WHAT VIDEO "AT UNC." (OR ANYWHERE ELSE) BUT, FOR THE RECORD, HERE'S WHAT I DO KNOW:

1. IT WAS THE COMMITTEE COUNSEL, JOHN NIELDS, NOT A SENATOR WHO WAS DOING THE QUESTIONING.

2. THE SECURITY SYSTEM, INSTALLED AT MY HOME, JUST BEFORE I MADE A VERY SECRET TRIP TO TEHRAN, COST, ACCORDING TO THE COMMITTEE, $16K, NOT $60K.

3. THE TERRORIST WHO THREATENED TO KILL ME IN 1986, JUST BEFORE THAT SECRET TRIP TO TEHRAN, WAS NOT USAMA BIN LADEN, IT WAS ABU NIDAL (WHO WORKS FOR THE LIBYANS -- NOT THE TALIBAN AND NOT IN AFGHANISTAN).

4. I NEVER SAID I WAS AFRAID OF ANYBODY. I DID SAY THAT I WOULD BE GLAD TO MEET ABU NIDAL ON EQUAL TERMS ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD BUT THAT I WAS UNWILLING TO HAVE HIM OR HIS OPERATIVES MEET MY WIFE AND CHILDREN ON HIS TERMS.

5. I DID SAY THAT THE TERRORISTS INTERCEPTED BY THE FBI ON THE WAY TO MY HOUSE IN FEB. 87 TO KILL MY WIFE, CHILDREN AND ME WERE LIBYANS, DISPATCHED FROM THE PEOPLE'S COMMITTEE FOR LIBYAN STUDENTS IN MCLEAN, VIRGINIA.

6. AND I DID SAY THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAD MOVED MY FAMILY OUT OF OUR HOME TO A MILITARY BASE (CAMP LEJEUNE, NC) UNTIL THEY COULD DISPATCH MORE THAN 30 AGENTS TO PROTECT MY FAMILY FROM THOSE TERRORISTS (BECAUSE A LIBERAL FEDERAL JUDGE HAD ALLOWED THE LYBIAN ASSASSINS TO POST BOND AND THEY FLED).

7. AND, FYI: THOSE FEDERAL AGENTS REMAINED AT OUR HOME UNTIL I RETIRED FROM THE MARINES AND WAS NO LONGER A "GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL." BY THEN, THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT HAD SPENT MORE THAN $2M PROTECTING THE NORTH FAMILY. THE TERRORISTS SENT TO KILL US WERE NEVER RE-APPREHENDED.

SEMPER FIDELIS, OLIVER L. NORTH

by Dom Jermano (20 articles, 0 quicklinks, 40 diaries, 930 comments) on Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 7:44:02 PM

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for real?  Ollie fuckin North?  Gun runnin', drug smugglin, law ignoring cold war relic???   That wanna be Rambo jarhead a**hole is the terrorist.  How many poor peasants in south and central America were tortured, murdered and disappeared by him and his contra-crack buddies?  How many tons of the white devil was spoon fed our inner cities all supposedly justified by the need to "fight communism".  Atta Osama and all the rest are not real sweetheart, neither is the tooth fairy or Santa Claus, sorry precious.  They are just pretend bad men, its ok, there, there......the boogey men are not real....they are a creation of the CIA....ever since the early 80's in Afghanistan.  Ever hear of Able Danger?   Sibel Edmonds?    Dancing, videotaping Israeli movers?   WTC '93 was an FBI job.......come on, dont u read the NYT???  Why did we create and continue to fund the Taliban and Al-Queada?   Oil, gas pipelines.  Mil-IND-COMPLEX with mOSSAD, ISI, Saudis...its not hard to figure out.   Just read Nafeez Ahmed, "War on Truth"  He explains in extremely well documented meticulously footnoted detail how the entire "War on Terror" was cooked up from 1979 on.  The commies were going down as our only "enemy", the merchants of death were sh*tting their pants by the early 90's hearing phrases like "peace dividend"   wake up little one, the real world is scairy enough w/o believing in pretend monsters.

by CamusRebel (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 100 comments [29 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 7:54:19 PM

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except when he is killing women and children and destroying their societies.

by CamusRebel (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 100 comments [29 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 at 7:57:39 PM

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... wanted you to believe, anyway.

You say: 'Anyone pushing the idea that "no planes" hit the World Trade Center on 9/11, really isn't worth a second of your valuable time. They usually headline their fantasies as "TV Fakery," or some similar "fake," or "hoax" analogy."

If a plane hits a concrete and steel building, it will smash against it - come to a sudden halt, and most of the huge mass of twisted, broken and crumpled mainly aluminium and plastic will fall straight down the building onto the ground. What do we see instead? The buildings absorb the whole of those planes, like a knife put through butter or into putty. Aluminum is soft compared to steel and concrete. Only the engines, which are made of steel, would have had a chance of crashing through. Those videos are fake. So, where were the planes? They weren't necessary to bring those buildings down with explosives. And CNN, Fox News and the rest of them were in on the hoax!

See for yourself (second video):

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/149.html

Robert Hoogenboom
Sydney, Australia

by Robert Hoogenboom (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 234 comments [14 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Sep 13, 2007 at 3:36:11 AM

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Robert,

Whilst I find I agree with the view, we have been lied to bigtime, and the view that the Govt knows far more then they are telling us, even that they are involved with the attack against the WTC, I do have difficulty accepting the idea that "no planes hit them".

Sadly, from my arm chair view down under, I was not privy to a first hand viewing and thus reliant upon repeated transmissions from the U.S.A.

Transmissions that could be doctored and made to look something that it was not, however in all fairness, the folks standing on the streets of New York and in the buildings looking out their windows all had first row seats and saw what they saw. I find it pretty hard to dispute such evidance.

The issue of WTC 7 (OR IS IT 5 ) is a different kettle of fish entirely, as is the Pentagon.

Regards the latter, I am an aircraft afficiondo and am very puzzeled indeed how TWO MASSIVE TURBO FANS and the associated landing gear from such an aircraft could simply vapourise. Sorry, I just don't buy that one at all.

You see I KNOW the type of metal turbine blades are manufactured from, and no way are they ever going to vapourise, what use would they be as turbine blades if they were prone to that ?

So in that regard, YES, there is MUCH explaning to be done, same goes for the infamous WTC 7 that was "pulled" by it's owner at the drop of a hat.

I've heard him say he ordered it on video, and read transcripts, which he later denied. Even the fire authorities early on, stated it was pulled, I'd dearly love to hear, who planted the explosives to "pull it" and when that was done, after all, from my observations of such matters, it takes anything from two weeks or more to plan and insert/wire the explosives.

This clearly demonstrates that previous knowledge was required .

Bottom line is, "WHO STOOD TO GAIN FROM THIS EVENT ?"

Even dime store detectives will ask you that, and from where I sit, it most certainly WAS NOT AL QUIEDA or OBL. Check out the money that's changed hands since this event, how much has found it's way into OBL's pocket ? LOL. Where did the money go ?????? There you'll find the perps of Sept 11. IMHO.

by Eddy Schmid (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 234 comments [17 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Sep 13, 2007 at 10:46:49 AM

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See folks, I deal with these "no planers" so you don't have to.

Genius claim one: a 100 ton mass moving 500 mph would simply bounce off the steel perimeter columns of the towers and fall straight down.

Does anyone out there actually believe this?

Because I have some lovely oceanfront property in Iowa I'm selling at a discount.

Genius claim two: the engines and landing gear "vapourised?"

No one claimed this.  Aircraft parts (including the black boxes) were recovered at the site.  Even "no planers" have located a landing gear assembly in photos that they claim can't have travelled through the core of the building and out the other side.  Well obviously it could, if it didn't get tangled up in the columns.

This "no plane" theory is a non starter.  Five years in the development stage before the script hit the streets.  Only an imbecile would believe such nonsense.  It's not feasible. 

Third claim about "pull it."  Silverstein was obviously referring to pulling the firefighting operation for several reasons, (not the least of which is that he was talking in an interview for national television at the time).  That "pull the building" out of context claim is a bogus/weak/unsupportable claim that I have been disputing for some years now.

by johndoraemi (17 articles, 12 quicklinks, 6 diaries, 166 comments [3 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Sep 13, 2007 at 12:55:29 PM

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Those videos are fake. Hence no planes. Hence no scrambling to intercept them for 45 minutes, which seems to baffle everyone. Those videos are not fake?

Robert Hoogenboom
Sydney, Australia.

by Robert Hoogenboom (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 234 comments [14 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Sep 14, 2007 at 3:12:59 AM

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Gee Whizz John, thanks for your heads up on that, however I have to confess you lost me completely when you spoke of "IDIODICY" of people believeing something YOU don't believe in.

Sorta smacks of the Repugs mantra you know ?

Regards the undercarrage and engine components, SORRY Buddy, you havent the faintest clue here of what your talking about. It may surprise you, that you can park a bloody huge SUV in the engine intake of such a plane, ring any bells yet ? These things are HUGE, not the pissy little things they picked up at the Pentagon. Same goes for the undercarrage. Sorry Pal, you'll have to do a little better then that.

by Eddy Schmid (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 234 comments [17 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Sep 14, 2007 at 8:08:14 AM

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