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July 8, 2007 at 17:07:10

The Difference Between Liberals and Progressives

by Jim Arnold     Page 1 of 1 page(s)

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I’m a progressive, not a liberal. No one seems to talk much about the difference, in fact the two are usually treated as being pretty much synonymous. But there are differences, and I believe they’re significant. Not so significant as the differences between liberals and progressives taken together versus conservatives, but significant just the same.

I maintain there are two distinct characteristics of liberalism that explain liberal behavior in a most evident, compelling way. In one characteristic, liberals and progressives are similar. Unlike conservatives, who tend to think only in terms of individuals (themselves) and privilege, liberals and progressives are also concerned with the well-being of society as a whole, and seek to moderate excesses of individual wealth and privilege. Unlike conservatives, who tend to pursue social stability through the exercise of propaganda, police and military power, liberals and progressives seek social cohesion through the establishment of shared benefits and responsibilities.

But what distinguishes liberalism from progressivism is an inherent conflict of interests. People with wealth and privilege might genuinely embrace progressive causes and issues, but so long as they benefit personally from the prevail of conservative policies, their political vigor will naturally be half-hearted. Have the conservatives cut taxes on the wealthy, transferred the burden to the lower classes? Oh well. Have they consolidated the political system so that only the wealthy can effectively participate and exercise meaningful influence? Well oh well.

It’s not that liberals are muddle-headed or weak. They just don’t have a clear and pressing reason to succeed.

Conservatism has its own dichotomy of interests, between the elite and the lower classes. But for conservatism it’s a matter of exploiting fear and stupidity to get the masses of victims to support their own victimization. Stupidity is a worthy topic, but its entanglement with conservative deceit and malice is best left to another discussion.

I don’t claim that liberalism is deliberately deceitful or malevolent, or that people outside the elite are stupid for being liberal. A person of modest means might embrace a liberal ethic due to some personal psychological fixation, or political ambivalence, or insulation from good political information. But that’s an issue of psychology, and education. If we consider the distinctions among clear-thinking liberals and progressives, the factors of psychology and ignorance can be disregarded.

The differences between liberals and progressives, and their common differences from conservatives, are actually quite glaring and clear-cut in practice. A conservative has no problem telling a blatant lie. He might be speaking in front of millions of people and committing an outrageous corruption of truth without so much as a blush. Just think of their recent claim that refusing to continue funding the war would leave our troops in Iraq defenseless. It's a genuine dilemma - what honest argument could they make? In any case, a progressive will confront a conservative for telling a lie, and call it a lie - mainly because, well, it’s a lie. But a liberal would never stoop to such boorish behavior. Not polite. Definitely déclassé. Besides, what would the media say if given a target?

Conservatives will lie because they have to lie to maintain the support of the 49% of voters who suffer from conservative policies, but whose IQs fall somewhere below the 100 threshold. Liberals will tolerate such lies in silence because they can at least sympathize with the obvious dilemma of needing to rally a populace against their own interests. And no one could fail to evoke sympathy from a liberal if they're the parent of a child who goes to the same private school as his own.

A conservative is undisturbed, or oblivious to his own hypocrisy. Fortunately for the conservative, a liberal will be too polite to call a hypocrite a hypocrite. And meanwhile, a liberal will be too sensitive to take a position so forcefully as to appear even remotely hypocritical. Stand up, speak out to defend the Constitution when a President repeatedly violates it? Who is so morally pure that they could, in good liberal conscience, throw verbal stones at others in the same social club?

A conservative will defend a fellow-conservative for just about any conceivable behavior, even treason. Just think of the obvious conspiracy to expose Valery Plame, and collaterally, to blow the cover on the CIA front organization involved with investigating WMDs which she represented, exposing other agents and sources around the world to grave danger, exposing the whole country to the greater danger of another 911. Conservatives are apoplectic that one of their own would be convicted of perjury and obstruction of justice for his involvement in, well, lying and obstruction to protect treasonous co-conspirators. A progressive will confront a conservative for committing treason, or condoning it, and even call it treason – mainly because, well, it’s treason. A liberal would never engage in such extreme behavior, much less deign to dig into the conspiracy. Think of the families in the neighborhood who would suffer if it were to be fully exposed! Think of the children!

A conservative will pursue the impeachment of a liberal President for lying about a BJ with the determination of a raging pitbull, but will protect a conservative President for lying about war, illegal practices, flagrant violations of the Constitution, and apparently just about anything else. Would having sex with a male animal cross the line? Who knows? A progressive will call any of these depraved and call for impeachment for high crimes as a matter of principle, not to mention political necessity. (Beastiality might be distinguished as an incredibly low and apolitical crime.) A liberal will convince himself that other issues are more important, as if important issues won’t be blocked or vetoed so long as a criminal President remains in office. No matter what the issue, moderation is, in liberal circles, synonymous with taste, class and sophistication.

What other rational explanation could there be for the apparent oddities of liberalism?

Liberals are generally well-meaning people with a vision of progress toward a better humanity, but with lots to protect. Progressives are good people with a vision of progress toward a better humanity. We need to empower more of the latter.

 

A member of Democratic Circles (DemocraticCircles.org), responsible for Internet publicity. A former visitant of UC Santa Cruz, union boilermaker, ex-Marine, Vietnam vet, anti-war activist, dilettante in science with an earth-shaking theory on the nature of light (which no one will consider), philosopher in the tradition of Hegel, Marx, and Fromm (no one listens to that either), author of a book on wine clubs (ahem), and cast-off programmer of ancient computer languages.




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Jennifer Hancock runs www.Sumogirl.com, a website that features the thoughts, opinions, and creative pursuits of Jennifer Hancock, gentlewoman. A Humanist, Jennifer has a degree in Cognitive Linguistics from the University of Hawaii at Manoa. She has been a human rights advocate since she was a teenager and focused the majority of her early work on the abolition of the death penalty. More recently, she has been actively promoting Humanist values and progressive activism. She publishes a weekly ...

to see more of bio, click on member name

SumogirlJennifer Hancock runs www.Sumogirl.com, a website that features the thoughts, opinions, and creative pursuits of Jennifer Hancock, gentlewoman. A Humanist, Jennifer has a degree in Cognitive Linguistics from the University of Hawaii at Manoa. She has been a human rights advocate since she was a teenager and focused the majority of her early work on the abolition of the death penalty. More recently, she has been actively promoting Humanist values and progressive activism. She publishes a weekly ...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Liberals, progressives and conservatives

Interesting, I consider myself both a liberal and a progressive and agree that they are different although related.  Although, I tend to think in terms of progressive being a synthesis of a dialectic between liberal and economic conservatives (who are pro-liberty and anti-collectivism).  Religious conservatives are an entirely different animal.

 I think the main reason we need to create space for economic conservatives to consider themselves progressive is because they have more in common with liberals and progressives then they do with religious conservatives (which is why they have broken their ties with that constituency and are fighting with that group to control the republican party).  Economic conservatives can be allies to liberals and progressives, but only if an effort is made to actually understand their concerns and speak to them of their fears and how we can move forward without creating a serfstate.

 Anyway, interesting article.

 

Jen Hancock (aka Sumogirl)

by Sumogirl (4 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 6 comments) on Monday, July 9, 2007 at 6:14:24 AM
 


i am a former teacher of 30 years with a history and political science major.I started getting politically active when Ronnie Regan ended my social security hopes for teahers
liberalsrocki am a former teacher of 30 years with a history and political science major.I started getting politically active when Ronnie Regan ended my social security hopes for teahers

fell for conservative lies

i don't think there is a difference between real liberals and progressives.the author of this article has fallen for a big conservative lie which is anyone slightly to the left of adoph hitler is a liberal.The result is political moderates in the democratic party have been labled liberals instead of moderates.Bill clinton was called a flaming liberal and he worked for big business helping destroy unions.the number of real liberals left in the senate and congress can be numbered on two hands maybe.FDR worked against class to create better living standards for all most so called liberals today wont do that.The Republican liars have madeeverybody a liberal who isnt a facist conservative

by liberalsrock (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 114 comments) on Monday, July 9, 2007 at 6:50:44 AM
 


A member of Democratic Circles (DemocraticCircles.org), responsible for Internet publicity. A former visitant of UC Santa Cruz, union boilermaker, ex-Marine, Vietnam vet, anti-war activist, dilettante in science with an earth-shaking theory on the nature of light (which no one will consider), philosopher in the tradition of Hegel, Marx, and Fromm (no one listens to that either), author of a book on wine clubs (ahem), and cast-off programmer of ancient computer languages.
Jim ArnoldA member of Democratic Circles (DemocraticCircles.org), responsible for Internet publicity. A former visitant of UC Santa Cruz, union boilermaker, ex-Marine, Vietnam vet, anti-war activist, dilettante in science with an earth-shaking theory on the nature of light (which no one will consider), philosopher in the tradition of Hegel, Marx, and Fromm (no one listens to that either), author of a book on wine clubs (ahem), and cast-off programmer of ancient computer languages.

"fell for conservative lies"

I basically agree with you, although the people I'm calling "liberal" would generally call themselves liberal too. So it's a question of saying "you're a moderate, not a liberal" or "you may be a liberal, but you're not a progressive". I think the latter is more effective, as self-described liberals are not going to redefine their label, but might be willing to acknowledge and reconsider some of their differences with true progressives.


by Jim Arnold (12 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 81 comments) on Monday, July 9, 2007 at 10:54:44 AM
 


Joel S. Hirschhorn is the author of Delusional Democracy - Fixing the Republic Without Overthrowing the Government (www.delusionaldemocracy.com). His current political writings have been greatly influenced by working as a senior staffer for the U.S. Congress and for the National Governors Association. He advocates a Second American Revolution, beginning with an Article V Convention to propose constitutional amendments. He is Chair of the Independent Party of Maryland.
Joel S. HirschhornJoel S. Hirschhorn is the author of Delusional Democracy - Fixing the Republic Without Overthrowing the Government (www.delusionaldemocracy.com). His current political writings have been greatly influenced by working as a senior staffer for the U.S. Congress and for the National Governors Association. He advocates a Second American Revolution, beginning with an Article V Convention to propose constitutional amendments. He is Chair of the Independent Party of Maryland.

Some better political realities

We don't have real progressives for the most part.  We have neoprogressives; they are Democrats and liberals who are too ashamed of calling themselves by those labels; they want to appear more radical - but in reality neoprogressives are a disgrace because they consistently work and vote for Democrats; they still delude themselves that electing Democrats will change the SYSTEM for the better.  Real progressives are true dissidents, third party advocates, and condemn both major parties and the economic elites that control both.  What nearly all people share is their stubborn loyalty to the two-party system, and this suits the power elites that run the country.  Of all the Democrat presidential candidates, the only two that a real progressive can justify supporting are Kucenich and Gravel -- if you call yourself a progressive and support any of the others you are a neoprogressive.

by Joel S. Hirschhorn (118 articles, 22 quicklinks, 54 diaries, 472 comments) on Monday, July 9, 2007 at 8:25:50 AM
 



Rasoul Acheh

Liberal, Progressive, Conservative, What's The Difference?

Unbeknownst to most Americans, U.S. politics has always boiled down to a contest between "We the People", and the "Special Interests". As such , political labels, such as "Democrat", "Republican", "liberal", "Progressive", and "Conservative", have little or no, real meaning, today! This is further borne out by the fact, that most politicians, calling themselves by these labels, don't really practice what they preach, anyway! The down side to all this, is that the masses, have been led into the misquided belief, that the foregoing political labels, are synonymous with politics. Needless to say, in the real political contest, now taking place in the U.S., the masses lose big time! They will continue to lose, as long as they remain more concerned with meaningless labels, than genuine political competence!

A good measure of political incompetence today, is the degree to which, the terms, "liberal", "progressive", and "conservative" are taken seriously. The special interests actually calling the political shots in this country, rule, because they understand that genuine political competence, is far more valuable, than mere political labels! On the other hand, they stay in power, due to their ability to keep the people, locked into, the great liberal vs progressive vs conservative, divide! While the masses are thus kept busy, playing with empty political labels, the Special Interests and their stooges, go about the business of accumulating, and maintaining, real political power! As long as "We the People" fall victim, to the mirage of being a "liberal", a "progressive", or a "conservative", the people will continue to be routed, in the real world arena, of U.S. politics! In light of the staggering political reversals now being suffered, by "We the People", in these United States, the utter worthlessness, of our most popular political labels, should be quite evident. They largely serve to keep the people, politically incompetent, needlessly divided, and more or less, useful idiots, for the Special Interests and their stooges, now dominating U.S. politics!

by Rasoul Acheh (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 122 comments) on Monday, July 9, 2007 at 2:35:56 PM
 


About me: *I am a Christian. One who believes in the lord, but also respects science (and other peoples beliefs and non-beliefs too). ...and I have no need to add the prefix "True" before the word "Christian", because either you are telling the "Truth" or you are not. *I have been married for __ years. I have a wonderful wife and two wonderful kids. *My web site is the work of one person. *I am a private individual. *I am not funded by any group. *I sincerely value human life (dem...

to see more of bio, click on member name

RCGAbout me: *I am a Christian. One who believes in the lord, but also respects science (and other peoples beliefs and non-beliefs too). ...and I have no need to add the prefix "True" before the word "Christian", because either you are telling the "Truth" or you are not. *I have been married for __ years. I have a wonderful wife and two wonderful kids. *My web site is the work of one person. *I am a private individual. *I am not funded by any group. *I sincerely value human life (dem...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Just Call Me An American

I am not a liberal, a conservative, or a progressive. I have views that run the gamut; views which if I were to list them, they would piss off the extremists of all these groups. And I'm willing to bet that by and large my views would go along with the majority of Americans. The problem is that none of these groups represent me - nor do they or will they represent the views of the majority of Americans. Now I have to go, my hamburger is cooking and I'm in a hurry to pick up my economy car from the shop - and tonight I'm planning to submit a new anti-bush torrent - tomorrow I'm using my full size truck to clean out my garage and haul some junk away. If I have time after that I am going to work out with my son and daughter to make sure that they keep up their fighting skills in case they should have to defend themselves - because if someone attempts to rob, rape, or physically hurt them, I want them to beat the snot out of the perpetrator, if necessary of course. And...I may have some fun hunting and (perhaps) fishing next weekend. I'm not sure about the fishing as the nearby lake is getting more and more polluted (damn it!)...

Sorry, I guess I'm just a confused liberal? Progressive? Conservative? Oh dear lord, what am I?

by RCG (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 352 comments) on Monday, July 9, 2007 at 3:48:54 PM
 


A member of Democratic Circles (DemocraticCircles.org), responsible for Internet publicity. A former visitant of UC Santa Cruz, union boilermaker, ex-Marine, Vietnam vet, anti-war activist, dilettante in science with an earth-shaking theory on the nature of light (which no one will consider), philosopher in the tradition of Hegel, Marx, and Fromm (no one listens to that either), author of a book on wine clubs (ahem), and cast-off programmer of ancient computer languages.
Jim ArnoldA member of Democratic Circles (DemocraticCircles.org), responsible for Internet publicity. A former visitant of UC Santa Cruz, union boilermaker, ex-Marine, Vietnam vet, anti-war activist, dilettante in science with an earth-shaking theory on the nature of light (which no one will consider), philosopher in the tradition of Hegel, Marx, and Fromm (no one listens to that either), author of a book on wine clubs (ahem), and cast-off programmer of ancient computer languages.

"What am I"

"Sorry, I guess I'm just a confused liberal? Progressive? Conservative? Oh dear lord, what am I?"

Maybe you're someone too busy to form a coherent political outlook. That's fine, and understandable, but I don't see it as something to celebrate. To call myself a "progressive" is to align myself with a general set of goals and policies. If I were to find myself all over the map, in and out of groups that call themselves by various labels, I'd question my clarity, I'd question their clarity (as I have), and in the end I'd be more clear in my own positions - not agreeing entirely with other progressives, but one person, stronger and more self-aware, in a larger political movement that's stronger for being collectively more self-aware.

by Jim Arnold (12 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 81 comments) on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 at 11:04:20 AM
 


About me: *I am a Christian. One who believes in the lord, but also respects science (and other peoples beliefs and non-beliefs too). ...and I have no need to add the prefix "True" before the word "Christian", because either you are telling the "Truth" or you are not. *I have been married for __ years. I have a wonderful wife and two wonderful kids. *My web site is the work of one person. *I am a private individual. *I am not funded by any group. *I sincerely value human life (dem...

to see more of bio, click on member name

RCGAbout me: *I am a Christian. One who believes in the lord, but also respects science (and other peoples beliefs and non-beliefs too). ...and I have no need to add the prefix "True" before the word "Christian", because either you are telling the "Truth" or you are not. *I have been married for __ years. I have a wonderful wife and two wonderful kids. *My web site is the work of one person. *I am a private individual. *I am not funded by any group. *I sincerely value human life (dem...

to see more of bio, click on member name

RE: "What am I"

@jarnold - "Maybe you're someone too busy to form a coherent political outlook."

My political outlook is completely coherent, thank you.  And if you had the guts to even try to logically back this attack up, then I would and I could defend myself; however, as it is, all you have done is to attack me without supplying any reasoning whatsoever. Which is what a troll would do. Please note that I just backed up my reasoning.

by RCG (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 352 comments) on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 at 11:51:12 AM
 


A member of Democratic Circles (DemocraticCircles.org), responsible for Internet publicity. A former visitant of UC Santa Cruz, union boilermaker, ex-Marine, Vietnam vet, anti-war activist, dilettante in science with an earth-shaking theory on the nature of light (which no one will consider), philosopher in the tradition of Hegel, Marx, and Fromm (no one listens to that either), author of a book on wine clubs (ahem), and cast-off programmer of ancient computer languages.
Jim ArnoldA member of Democratic Circles (DemocraticCircles.org), responsible for Internet publicity. A former visitant of UC Santa Cruz, union boilermaker, ex-Marine, Vietnam vet, anti-war activist, dilettante in science with an earth-shaking theory on the nature of light (which no one will consider), philosopher in the tradition of Hegel, Marx, and Fromm (no one listens to that either), author of a book on wine clubs (ahem), and cast-off programmer of ancient computer languages.

RE: What am I?

I'm going to try this again - I tried to post this in response to your statement, not mine:

You said "I have views that run the gamut" 

You said "Sorry, I guess I'm just a confused liberal? Progressive? Conservative? Oh dear lord, what am I?"

I really didn't mean to insult you, I was willing to take you at your words, that you're very busy, and your views are all over the place. That's understandable. Would some synonym for "not coherent" be more satisfactory to you?



 

by Jim Arnold (12 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 81 comments) on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 at 4:28:31 PM
 


A member of Democratic Circles (DemocraticCircles.org), responsible for Internet publicity. A former visitant of UC Santa Cruz, union boilermaker, ex-Marine, Vietnam vet, anti-war activist, dilettante in science with an earth-shaking theory on the nature of light (which no one will consider), philosopher in the tradition of Hegel, Marx, and Fromm (no one listens to that either), author of a book on wine clubs (ahem), and cast-off programmer of ancient computer languages.
Jim ArnoldA member of Democratic Circles (DemocraticCircles.org), responsible for Internet publicity. A former visitant of UC Santa Cruz, union boilermaker, ex-Marine, Vietnam vet, anti-war activist, dilettante in science with an earth-shaking theory on the nature of light (which no one will consider), philosopher in the tradition of Hegel, Marx, and Fromm (no one listens to that either), author of a book on wine clubs (ahem), and cast-off programmer of ancient computer languages.

once again

You don’t seem to understand – I’ve only paraphrased your own words, and without insult

 You said your views “run the gamut”

American Heritage defines “run the gamut” as “to cover a whole range”

I paraphrased it as “all over the place”

You said you guess you're "just a confused liberal...”

American Heritage defines “confused” as “unable to think with clarity or act with intelligence or understanding”

I paraphrased “confused” as “incoherent”, which American Heritage defines as “unable to think or express one's thoughts in a clear or orderly manner

I’m not insulting you. Look up “troll” and stop insulting me. My original point to you was that if as you say you’re too busy to be coherent, or not-confused, if your ideas are all over the place, or running the gamut, why is that a worthwhile critique of my distinction between progressives and liberals?

by Jim Arnold (12 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 81 comments) on Tuesday, July 10, 2007 at 7:37:18 PM
 

 

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