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February 13, 2008 at 05:11:13

About Ronald Reagan, I'm not ready to make nice.

by Ed Tubbs     Page 1 of 2 page(s)

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The sentence in my response to Debra Craig’s assertion that Ronald Reagan was “our most beloved president that some have taken issue with, that a select few feel warranted an apology to Ms. Craig from me, is the following: “I’d hope a school teacher would have a better grip on history than the miserable level of ignorance you manifest.”  

A few considerations seem to apply.

 

One is that the antonym of informed is ignorant. No one knows everything. However, when someone issues a statement that presumes it is a fact, “… most beloved president,” the requirement is that the statement’s issuer in fact have sufficient fact-based knowledge to support the statement. By definition, any deficit of such knowledge is ignorance. As example, everyone who would contend, contrary to all available evidence that Richard Nixon was not “a crook,” demonstrate either their ignorance and/or an extremely deceptive nature. As RR claimed, “Facts are stubborn things,” and that “everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.”

 

“Miserable” is an adjective, meaning very unhappy, wretched.”

 

That an apology is due to a first party presupposes that a second party has said or done something that was an inapposite response or reaction to the first party’s behaviors or expressed sentiments.

 

Additionally, we’re not talking here about some arcane details of the Peloponnesian Wars, say, the names of the leaders of the Delian League in the fifth century, BCE. Nor in the discussion are concerns over the iterations of an engineer, a plumber or a housekeeper; what they perhaps should have known prior to opining on some political issue. Nor ought we to gloss over the extraordinarily deleterious effects each and all of us are suffering as a direct consequence of a president’s policies of just 20 and 25 years ago.

 

No! Ms. Craig has advertised herself as a “TEACHER;” one charged with the edification of those who will soon be guiding this country. And the history, as I proposed above, is less than three decades recent!

 

Therefore, if anyone can demonstrate where the first hint of apology to Ms. Craig seems the least appropriate, I stand fully prepared to listen. One of my greatest joys in life is having my own preconceptions burst.

 

Where, how, by dint of what should an apology for calling a spade a spade be anything less than some self-serving, cowardly thing for me to do?

 

On the other hand, are there reasons why none should pretend, even for ostensibly generous causes, such as being polite and keeping the peace in a group oriented along somewhat mutual lines, that more fitting reactions might be expressed than hostility to an outrageous assertion? 

 

I submit that there are.

 

For decades the hard Right has worked their malicious game plans with rather a free hand. Those in the middle and to the left have, each and every time, caved — “Oh can’t we all just get along and be nice?” — shamefully before the coercive, brutalizing hordes.

 

After the Holocaust, Jews everywhere shouted the same mantra: “Never again!” But here, Democrats and their progressive allies have offered not outcries of offense but the other cheek, again, and again, and again. Max Cleland, the Democratic senator from Georgia, Max Cleland who left three limbs on the battlefield in Vietnam, was painted with heaped on shovelfuls of “unpatriotic, anti-American” excreta by patriots who hadn’t themselves the courage to don a uniform. In 2004, they smeared 2-tours-in-Vietnam Senator John Kerry as unpatriotic and un-American. And the Democrats and progressives slinked on their bellies, cowed and whimpering.

 

Richard Nixon avoided impeachment by resigning. But for all his vile trespasses, those by Ronald Reagan, Vice-president Bush, and the nearly six score of appointed officials in the Reagan administration were worse; if the damage done is any tolled sum. (The S&L scandal — the absolute product of Reagan’s deregulate everything philosophy — cost US taxpayers $125 billion in bailout money!!!!!  By the way: Yeah! Yeah! I know the S&L was not an impeachable offense. However Iran-Contra and a dozen other acts of mal- and misfeasance were.)

 

But not even the whispered sentiment “impeachment” could be heard in the Democratic controlled House. It was “Shhhh, we already went through that just ten to 15 years earlier; don’t want to ‘put the country’ through that again.”

 

Not Washington, not Jefferson . . . no president has entered the office with a résumé so near to platinum as did George Herbert Walker Bush; WWII hero (the youngest combat pilot, flew 58 combat missions, was shot down and awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross for bravery), Yale grad, congressman, Ambassador to the UN, US ambassador to China, and CIA Director. But when asked about his knowledge concerning the Iran-Contra scandal, the vice-president claimed “He was out of the loop.”

 

Yeah, and about that bridge over some Kansas farm field you’re offering to sell me . . .

 1  |  2

 

An "Old Army Vet" and liberal, qua liberal, with a passion for open inquiry in a neverending quest for truth unpoisoned by religious superstitions. Per Voltaire: "He who can lead you to believe an absurdity can lead you to commit an atrocity."

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Frank J. Ranelli is an editorial writer, a research author and critic. He is also a senior editor for OpEdNews. His erudite and chic style of writing has been lauded and extensively published in a variety of news outlets and across the Internet. These include the Naples Daily News, The Online Journal, Information Clearing House, Alternet, The Smirking Chimp, and the former progressive journal of thought, Wicked Philosophy. Frank is currently working on his upcoming book, Rise of the Authoritaria...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Frank J. RanelliFrank J. Ranelli is an editorial writer, a research author and critic. He is also a senior editor for OpEdNews. His erudite and chic style of writing has been lauded and extensively published in a variety of news outlets and across the Internet. These include the Naples Daily News, The Online Journal, Information Clearing House, Alternet, The Smirking Chimp, and the former progressive journal of thought, Wicked Philosophy. Frank is currently working on his upcoming book, Rise of the Authoritaria...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Time for some advice

Ed,

I have with circumspect quietly read each of your articles and diaries that rightly rails against the myth that Reagan was an American messiah. Reagan indubitably was an unadulterated liar, crook, and worthy of impeachment for his Iran-Contra debacle that was in direct contravention with the law Congress had passed – and he had signed –against such an agreement to sell arms to Iran.

The reasons for outrage, fury, and indignation for the Reagan years are fully justified. However, your obsession with Debra Craig's comments, and subsequent diatribes, are winnowing the effect of an otherwise articulate and accurate argument that Reagan should be ostracized not deified.

The truth is there are many naïve and uninformed people who have not a single clue as to the atrocities Reagan, as well as many of his cohorts, committed during his eight years in office. Reagan's demur, folksy and glib mannerism fooled many, many people. Not everyone has the gift of insight, knowledge and a sound comprehension of the facts, such as you.

I am not defending Debra Craig's foolishly ignorance statement. I am, however, going to recommend that you direct your rightful ire at illuminating the truth and educating the millions of American who were duped and conned by a two-bit actor with dementia and demented, pernicious intentions to unravel the fabric of our nation.

Browbeating her by proxy of Op Ed News will never effectively convey your message. Instead, use Debra Craig as a metaphor to show how America was deceived by this erstwhile charlatan-in-chief, using facts to galvanize an uprising to paint Reagan in the true light he deserves –a dark and ominous one.

It's hard to change a person's mindset, or to get them to open up to look at the indispensable truth, when you operate in the same malicious framing the odious right wing uses.

Keep up the assault on Reagan's abysmal record, which is certainly not beyond reproach. But, the constant onslaught of disparaging and demoralizing remarks toward a singular member at OEN is counterintuitive to your cause.

Frank J. Ranelli, Senior Editor – Op Ed News

by Frank J. Ranelli (59 articles, 141 quicklinks, 26 diaries, 329 comments) on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 at 6:22:25 AM
 


Sandy Sand began her writing career while raising three children and doing public relations work for Women's American ORT (Organization for Rehabilitation through Training). That led to a job as a reporter for the San Fernando Valley Chronicle, a weekly publication in Canoga Park, California. In conjunction with the Chronicle, she broadcast a tri-weekly, ten minuted newscast for KGOE AM. Following the closure of the Chronicle, Sand became the editor of the Tolucan Times and Canyon Crier newspape...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Sandy SandSandy Sand began her writing career while raising three children and doing public relations work for Women's American ORT (Organization for Rehabilitation through Training). That led to a job as a reporter for the San Fernando Valley Chronicle, a weekly publication in Canoga Park, California. In conjunction with the Chronicle, she broadcast a tri-weekly, ten minuted newscast for KGOE AM. Following the closure of the Chronicle, Sand became the editor of the Tolucan Times and Canyon Crier newspape...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Ditto...

...everything you said, Frank.

Tubbs' offering of dictionary definitions of a noun and an adjective directed at Debra Craig are nothing but excuses for his uncalled for personal attack.

I will as stubbornly maintain that he owes her an apology as he is unwilling to apologize.

Guess what?  If Tubbs were a paid member of OEN staff, management could force him to apologize just as MSNBC forced Don Imus and David Shuster to  apologize.  They fired Imus and it looks like that might be Shuster's fate, too.  Both for say something they shouldn't have said.

Voltaire: "He who can lead you to believe an absurdity can lead you to commit an atrocity."

Time for Tubbs to take the advice in his own biographical posting.

Tubbs believes the "absurdity" of his self-induced name calling, and hasn't acknowledged what the author herself has:  She was wrong about Reagan, which in of itself is an "apology."  As Rob said, her recanting of past RR support should be welcomed and priased, not attacked.

Tubbs hasn't committed an "autorcity" in the true sense of the word, but autoricously refuses to say he's sorry for attacking Craig personally.

 

by Sandy Sand (130 articles, 0 quicklinks, 151 diaries, 1160 comments) on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 at 9:17:39 AM
 


Mike Folkerth is the author of "The Biggest Lie Ever Believed" and is not your run-of-the-mill author of finance and economics.

The former real estate broker, developer, private real estate fund manager, auctioneer, Alaskan bush pilot, restaurateur, U.S. Navy veteran, heavy equipment operator, taxi cab driver, fishing guide, horse packer and few jobs too embarrassing to mention, writes from experience and plain common sense.

Mike’s humorous systems of “Mikeronomics” ...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Mike FolkerthMike Folkerth is the author of "The Biggest Lie Ever Believed" and is not your run-of-the-mill author of finance and economics.

The former real estate broker, developer, private real estate fund manager, auctioneer, Alaskan bush pilot, restaurateur, U.S. Navy veteran, heavy equipment operator, taxi cab driver, fishing guide, horse packer and few jobs too embarrassing to mention, writes from experience and plain common sense.

Mike’s humorous systems of “Mikeronomics” ...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Ed

Ronald Reagan was elected by the largest margin in U.S. history. He left office with the highest approval rating of any departing U.S. president and everything that he did was with the help of a Democratic controlled Congress.

The above are facts that would then make both the American people and Congress culpable for all the horrors that you claim.

His actions that preserved Social Security were the most reforming in recent history. His core belief for personal freedom was refreshing.

Living in the past with old vendettas does little to improve our current dismal situation.

by Mike Folkerth (101 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 495 comments) on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 at 7:41:30 AM
 


An "Old Army Vet" and liberal, qua liberal, with a passion for open inquiry in a neverending quest for truth unpoisoned by religious superstitions. Per Voltaire: "He who can lead you to believe an absurdity can lead you to commit an atrocity."
Ed TubbsAn "Old Army Vet" and liberal, qua liberal, with a passion for open inquiry in a neverending quest for truth unpoisoned by religious superstitions. Per Voltaire: "He who can lead you to believe an absurdity can lead you to commit an atrocity."

Get a grip, and some attributable evidence

To me, unlike some, attributable evidence, like scissors, cuts the paper.  

Unable to post words longer than a given number of characters. As I've been forced to here amend the http line, you'll have to eliminate the blanks to go to the source.

http://abcnews.go.com/  sections/politics/DailyNews/ poll_reagan010806.html

Aug. 6, 2001— Two-thirds of Americans look back favorably on Ronald Reagan's presidency, a better rating than he received while serving in the White House.
 

Reagan's average approval rating during his two terms in office was 57 percent, in the mid-range for a postwar president and tied with Bill Clinton's rating. But looking back today, more Americans — 66 percent — say they approve of Reagan's work, according to an ABCNEWS/Washington Post poll.

That's a familiar phenomenon: Presidents tend to be rated better as they recede from the fray. Reagan scored a similarly strong retrospective job approval rating in February 2000. And Jimmy Carter's was 66 percent in a poll a couple of years ago — a full 20 points higher than his career average while in office. Reagan's approval rating while he served peaked at 73 percent in the spring of 1981, after he was shot and wounded in an assassination attempt, and hit 70 percent in 1986, after he ordered a bombing raid against Libya. It fell to a low of 42 percent in early 1983, following a surge in unemployment, and dropped to 44 percent in early 1987, during the Iran-Contra controversy.

Reagan's Job Performance
 Approve Disapprove 
7/30/01 66% 27 (Retrospective)
2/27/0064 26 (Retrospective)
'81-'88 57 39 (Career average)
2/26/87 44 51 Low — Iran-Contra
4/26/86 70 26 High — Libya bombing
1/22/8342 54 Low — unemployment
4/22/81 73 19 High — shot by Hinckley

Nearly seven in 10 Americans also report a favorable overall impression of Reagan, up 12 points since the last asking in 1994, and up from a low of 48 percent in August 1988. That may reflect public sympathy with the 90-year-old former president's struggle with Alzheimer's disease.

by Ed Tubbs (113 articles, 1 quicklinks, 20 diaries, 38 comments) on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 at 9:13:43 AM
 


I do not feel it necessary for me to give you a bio..this is not High School
Susan NelsenI do not feel it necessary for me to give you a bio..this is not High School

Preserved social security..?

by first spending it then doubling the tax on it, so he could give his rich buddies tax breakss..was inspirational..? What planet were you on..?

by Susan Nelsen (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 226 comments) on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 at 5:51:12 PM
 


*****************************************************



Thomas Bonsell is a former newspaper editor (in Oregon, New York and Colorado) United States Air Force cryptanalyst and National Security Agency intelligence agent. He became one of American journalism's leading constitutional experts through years of study at Georgetown University Graduate School of Government in Washington, D.C., and tries (without much success) to be patient with people who argue endlessly on su...

to see more of bio, click on member name

tabonsell*****************************************************



Thomas Bonsell is a former newspaper editor (in Oregon, New York and Colorado) United States Air Force cryptanalyst and National Security Agency intelligence agent. He became one of American journalism's leading constitutional experts through years of study at Georgetown University Graduate School of Government in Washington, D.C., and tries (without much success) to be patient with people who argue endlessly on su...

to see more of bio, click on member name

WHERE DO YOU GET YOUR FACTS?

That Ronald Reagan had to succeed in spite of a Democratic Congress is a "Big Lie" the right has been trying to sell for three decades.



Reagan went into Office with a Republican Senate (Howard Baker was majority leader for four years, Bob Dole for the following two) and a conservative House (many of the right-wingers who gave the Democrats a small House majority then are now Republicans. Reagan had this Republican Senate and Conservative House for the first six years of his reign and those six years are the ones in which he did the mot damage to this nation.



Let us put an end to this Big Lie that Reagan had to overcome a Democratic Congress. It ain't true.

by tabonsell (28 articles, 0 quicklinks, 22 diaries, 246 comments) on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 at 7:54:29 PM
 


None
Mike WilliamsNone

"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is ...

"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn't so." Ronald Reagan, 1964.

From BBC news a couple of years ago, more data to suggest Reagan was indeed "most beloved" ...

Reagan voted 'greatest American'
Former President Ronald Reagan
Many Americans look back fondly at Reagan's presidency
Former US President Ronald Reagan has been voted the "greatest American" of all time by his fellow citizens.

Mr Reagan, who died last year aged 93, topped a list of 10 contenders, which featured six former presidents.

He edged out Abraham Lincoln, who abolished slavery, and civil rights leader Martin Luther King.

Some of the most notable names of US history such as Albert Einstein and Neil Armstrong, the first man to walk on the Moon, did not make the top 10.

Talk show host Oprah Winfrey is the highest ranked female contender at ninth place, making her the greatest American woman.

George Washington, the first US president who is considered the father of the nation, comes in at fourth place.

Current US President George W Bush and his predecessor Bill Clinton, whose presidency was tarnished by the Monica Lewinski sex scandal, are both in the top 10.

More than 2.4 million Americans cast their vote by phone, text or e-mail in the poll, organised by the Discovery Channel and AOL.

Some observers suggest the image of Mr Reagan, who was criticised as an intellectual lightweight during his presidency, has been enhanced following his death as millions of Americans cast a rose-tinted look back at his presidency.

His two terms in office (1981-1989) coincided with a period of economic prosperity, the crumbling of the Soviet bloc and a renewed sense of pride among Americans still reeling from the Vietnam War.

 

by Mike Williams (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 6 comments) on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 at 7:59:15 AM
 


An "Old Army Vet" and liberal, qua liberal, with a passion for open inquiry in a neverending quest for truth unpoisoned by religious superstitions. Per Voltaire: "He who can lead you to believe an absurdity can lead you to commit an atrocity."
Ed TubbsAn "Old Army Vet" and liberal, qua liberal, with a passion for open inquiry in a neverending quest for truth unpoisoned by religious superstitions. Per Voltaire: "He who can lead you to believe an absurdity can lead you to commit an atrocity."

Get a grip, and some attributed data

To me, unlike some, attributable evidence, like scissors, cuts the paper.  

Unable to post words longer than a given number of characters. As I've been forced to here amend the http line, you'll have to eliminate the blanks to go to the source.

http://abcnews.go.com/  sections/politics/DailyNews/ poll_reagan010806.html

Aug. 6, 2001— Two-thirds of Americans look back favorably on Ronald Reagan's presidency, a better rating than he received while serving in the White House.
 

Reagan's average approval rating during his two terms in office was 57 percent, in the mid-range for a postwar president and tied with Bill Clinton's rating. But looking back today, more Americans — 66 percent — say they approve of Reagan's work, according to an ABCNEWS/Washington Post poll.

That's a familiar phenomenon: Presidents tend to be rated better as they recede from the fray. Reagan scored a similarly strong retrospective job approval rating in February 2000. And Jimmy Carter's was 66 percent in a poll a couple of years ago — a full 20 points higher than his career average while in office. Reagan's approval rating while he served peaked at 73 percent in the spring of 1981, after he was shot and wounded in an assassination attempt, and hit 70 percent in 1986, after he ordered a bombing raid against Libya. It fell to a low of 42 percent in early 1983, following a surge in unemployment, and dropped to 44 percent in early 1987, during the Iran-Contra controversy.

Reagan's Job Performance
 Approve Disapprove 
7/30/01 66% 27 (Retrospective)
2/27/0064 26 (Retrospective)
'81-'88 57 39 (Career average)
2/26/87 44 51 Low — Iran-Contra
4/26/86 70 26 High — Libya bombing
1/22/8342 54 Low — unemployment
4/22/81 73 19 High — shot by Hinckley

Nearly seven in 10 Americans also report a favorable overall impression of Reagan, up 12 points since the last asking in 1994, and up from a low of 48 percent in August 1988. That may reflect public sympathy with the 90-year-old former president's struggle with Alzheimer's disease.

by Ed Tubbs (113 articles, 1 quicklinks, 20 diaries, 38 comments) on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 at 9:12:00 AM
 


An "Old Army Vet" and liberal, qua liberal, with a passion for open inquiry in a neverending quest for truth unpoisoned by religious superstitions. Per Voltaire: "He who can lead you to believe an absurdity can lead you to commit an atrocity."
Ed TubbsAn "Old Army Vet" and liberal, qua liberal, with a passion for open inquiry in a neverending quest for truth unpoisoned by religious superstitions. Per Voltaire: "He who can lead you to believe an absurdity can lead you to commit an atrocity."

Mike . . . so good at Reaganisms, but at a loss for facts

 

His two terms in office (1981-1989) coincided with a period of economic prosperity. Huh, the SINGLE WORST stock market carsh since 1929, and the TWO DEEPEST recessions since the Great depression???? WOW! I would hat to know what bad is, if economic prosperity. Or, don't the words "It's the economy stupid have any meaning to you. Yeah, yeah, I know, I know, those were directed at Bush 41, but he paid the price for the legacy Reagan left him; as did we all, until 1993 and the Clinton/Rubin plan (Not a single GOP vote, BTW) set the gears in order, presaging 22 million added jobs and 2 years of surpluses.

As RR liked to say, "fcts are stubborn things." Unfortuantely he didn't rely on them much. Made 'em up as he went.

ED   

by Ed Tubbs (113 articles, 1 quicklinks, 20 diaries, 38 comments) on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 at 6:23:23 PM
 


Young retired yank of 59 living in the highlands o Scotland. Been out of the old country for 20 some years now. I'm with the Dali Lama, kindness is the only thing that will work. LOVE cycling on or off road. My wife is a wonderful girl from Manchester England.We're haven fun.
davyYoung retired yank of 59 living in the highlands o Scotland. Been out of the old country for 20 some years now. I'm with the Dali Lama, kindness is the only thing that will work. LOVE cycling on or off road. My wife is a wonderful girl from Manchester England.We're haven fun.

Can't believe this

All I noticed was that when Reagan got in it became a lot harder to make a living for the average guy.  I remember when the banks in Iowa no longer supported the farmers and every weekend there was someone watching their lives be auctionied off, only to become corporate farms.  NOW it's become the norm for the rich to get richer off the backs of the not so rich.  We saw the exact thing happen in Britain with his pal Thatcher AND she is only loved by the haves, a vast vast minority.  Really though I think, like Bush, Reagan was only a mouth piece. Not sure if either ever had an independent thought.

by davy (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 241 comments) on Thursday, February 14, 2008 at 4:22:40 AM
 

 

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