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August 19, 2007 at 14:49:24

Don't be afraid of Romans 13, use it!

by Carol Wolman     Page 1 of 2 page(s)

http://www.opednews.com

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Chapter 13 of Paul's Letter to the Romans is about submitting to the governing authorities.  It was Hitler’s favorite passage; with it he persuaded the German clergy to obey him and to get their congregations to do the same.  Will it be used against Americans?  Or can we arm ourselves with it and use it to depose the Bush/Cheney dictatorship?
Romans 13: 1-2:

 1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 

The Bush/Cheney fascists are doing what Hitler did.   The Dept of Homeland Security is training clergy to help pacify the populace in case of martial law.  They tried it out in Louisiana, in the wake of Katrina, as reported by station KSLA:

 http://www.ksla.com/Global/story.asp?S=6937987 

Homeland Security Enlists Clergy to Quell Public Unrest if Martial Law Ever Declared 

Could martial law ever become a reality in America?  Some fear any nuclear, biological or chemical attack on U.S. soil might trigger just that.  KSLA News 12 has discovered that the clergy would help the government with potentially their biggest problem: Us…. 

 For the clergy team, one of the biggest tools that they will have in helping calm the public down or to obey the law is the bible itself, specifically Romans 13.  Dr. Tuberville elaborated, "because the government's established by the Lord, you know.  And, that's what we believe in the Christian faith.  That's what's stated in the scripture." 

We all need to arm ourselves with a true understanding of Romans 13, so that when they try to use it to make us obey Bush/Cheney, we have a ready answer.  Rather than reject the Bible, we need to understand that the Bible is on our side, the side of We the People. 

The “governing authorities” in the US are We the People.  The US government rests on the Constitution, which vests sovereignty in We the People.  We the People are the governing authorities, NOT Bush/Cheney and their minions.  Let me repeat that; the governing authorities in the US are We the People, not Bush/Cheney.  Thus, Romans 13 upholds OUR authority.

Under the Constitution, We the People delegate our authority to Congress, to make laws in our interest.  We elect the members of the Executive Branch, the president, veep, etc, to be public servants, who are supposed to be carrying out the will of the people who elect them. 

Romans 13 is friendly to the governing authorities, whoever they may be.  In the US, Romans 13 upholds We the People.  

1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

If the US is indeed one nation under God, if in God we trust, then God-fearing Americans, Christian Americans, have to respect the governing authority which God has established for this nation.  The Constitution defines this authority as deriving from We the People, and distributes the People’s delegated power among three branches, and also divides it between federal and state, so that the authority of We the People can never be usurped by a king. 

Many think of the US as the New Jerusalem, a nation blessed by God. The principles that Jesus espoused and personified are incorporated in the US Constitution.  These include: the dignity and worth of every human being, no matter how poor or sinful, the right of every person to have a say in his own governance, according to his conscience, the rule of laws, not individuals, the crucial nature of free speech and ability to tell the truth to power, to name a few.

Whatever is good about America comes from the sovereignty of We the People.  The US Constitution was the first of its kind, abolishing the European model of hereditary rule of kings and nobles, and replacing it with representative democracy.  Most other countries have followed our example, at least in theory.

God will bless America as long as We the People remain the governing authorities.  If the president tries to usurp power from We the People, the Constitution provides a clear mechanism of deposing anyone who tries to become a king, via impeachment.   

Romans 13 1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

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Carol S. Wolman, MD is a psychiatrist in Northern California. A lifelong peace activist, she has written extensively on the psychology of our times. She is a cochair of Bay Area Impeach Bush-Cheney. You can join or form a local group at http://impeachbush.meetup.com/ She ran for Congress in '06, and is now a Gteen candidate for Congress in CA district 1. She is a coordinator of The New Broom Coalition, for a clean sweep of Congress.

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electronic technician, truth seeker
Bob Gormleyelectronic technician, truth seeker

Problem with Romans 13

I have a real problem with Romans 13. I must admit  that it is probably my

least favorite passage in the Bible. It has been used to coerce many into supporting mass killing (the government made me do it).

Did Jesus submit to the government of his day? Yes and no.

    If I remember correctly he blasted the Pharisees and Sadduccees. He also

said my kingdom is no part of this world. Jesus made it known that he was

in total disagreement to the "ways of the world". Yet.... he did submit to Pontius Pilate by

letting himself be crucified. He took no part in war. Would he go to war if

the government told him to? I don't think so.

     Jesus set the example. He hated the world as it existed. He vocally pointed out the evil of it all. Yet ... he did submit.

Could  we do the same?      

by Bob Gormley (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 863 comments) on Sunday, August 19, 2007 at 5:18:15 PM
 


Don'pigeon hole me or sterotype me
pratliff94Don'pigeon hole me or sterotype me

Gromley

If you read Romans 13 carefully, you will notice the first seven verses teach about the role of the government in society. It is instituted as a terror for "wrong doers." Christian are to be law abiding folks "as far as it is possible." The government bares the sword, and God holds governments responsible to some degree as to whether or not they bear it "justly." There is inidication that God judges nations: when Assyria was so evil that God decided to destroy them if they did not change. He sent Jonah to tell them their peril. Jonah told them and they changed for a while. When Israel (the northern Ten Tribes) became more evil than their neighbors, God used this same Assyria (Nineveh) to destroy them. When Judah (the south Two Tribes) became more evil than their evil neighbors, God used Babylon to destroy them by destroying Jerusalem in 586 BCE (BC).

After Romans 13:7, we are given the responsibility of the church (every believer in Christ). The Church (the Christian) is never to bear the sword in any way at any time. The role of the government is to protect the citizens from their enemies; the role of the church is to love their enemies and do good to those who despitefully use them according to Christ own words (Matthew 5-6-7, the Sermon on the Mount).

Romans 13:1-7, the role of government.

vs. 3. "Rulers are not a terror to those who do good works, but to the criminal workers."

4. "He (the ruler) bears not the sword in vain... he is minister of God to execute wrath on those that do evil."

6. "For this cause pay your taxes..."

7. "Therefore give them all that is their respect and obedience."

 

Romans 13:8-10, the role of the Church (Christians),

8. "Pay your debts, and love one another. He who loves fulfills all the Law."

9. Lists at random the Ten Commandments in order to show that all of them are to be obeyed.

10. Reiterates that love fulfills all the Commandments culmimating with these words, "Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the Law (Mosaic Law not secular law)."

These verses describe the different roles of the Church and Government so distinctly that many Christians believe that a Christian cannot work in any government position. The Government is a terror to enemies and the Church is to love their enemies. You cannot do both at the same time.

Many church historians and theologians have done gymnastics to allow the Christian to fight with the sword and yet obey the New Testament of the Bible. When the Emperor of Rome (Constantine) converted to Christianity, he had all the Roman armies baptized in full immersion. When the clergy baptized the soldiers, Emperor Constantine ordered that their right arm with their sword be held up out of the water, indicating that the whole body and soul belonged to God, but the right hand and the sword belong to Rome. One of every ten Romans soldiers were converted to Christ and executed by Rome because they refused to use that sword.

In 313 C.E (A.D), Constantine declared the whole Roman Empire to be the Holy Roman Empire in the Edict of Milan thus making all citizens of Rome to be Christian by fiat. All the non-Christians did was change the name of their idols to angels and saints (Peter for Jupiter, Paul for Mercury, Mary for... etc). By 550 CE (AD), the Roman church became so power through the power of the State that it dominated the west until the Reformation with Martin Luther in 1517 CE (A.D.).

Most historians said that all the Edict of Milan did was to make it tolerable for all religions in Rome to exist. Do not believe it for a minute. Constantine destroyed all religions in the Roman Empire and made Christianity the religion of the state in every way. By the Reformation (1517), a child was not conferred citizenship in any western country without first being baptized, hence infant or pedio-baptism. A non-citizen could not inherit property and was not protected under the laws of the land for anything.

When the state dominates religion it destroys both the religion and the state; when the religion dominates the state, it destroys both the religion and the state. Wherever separation of religion and state have gone, there has been the highest example of freedom: The west never prospered until it threw off Roman Catholicism; India never prospered until it threw off Hinduism; China never prospered until it threw off Buddhism; and the Near East will prosper when it throws off Islam; and the United States will cease to prosper if we allow the religious right wing to break down the wall of separation in our country that has existed since 1776.

Phil.

by pratliff94 (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 940 comments) on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 at 8:10:56 PM
 


electronic technician, truth seeker
Bob Gormleyelectronic technician, truth seeker

By the Way

By the way, I get your point about "we the people" being the government.

Sometimes we forget don't we?

by Bob Gormley (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 863 comments) on Sunday, August 19, 2007 at 5:21:17 PM
 


Minneapolis Organizer: World Can't Wait-Drive Out the Bush Regime ~~~ Co-Founder: ImpeachforPeace.org ~~~ Theatrical Entertainer and Ballroom Dance Instructor by trade
Mikael RudolphMinneapolis Organizer: World Can't Wait-Drive Out the Bush Regime ~~~ Co-Founder: ImpeachforPeace.org ~~~ Theatrical Entertainer and Ballroom Dance Instructor by trade

Wow! I never thought of it that way!

This is a first for me!


Carol!

You nailed it. Of course! Submitting to Romans 13 IS submitting to the people in an "of the people, by the people and for the people" form of government. How brilliant!

I will be using this as I speak in churches quite often.

Thank you!!!

by Mikael Rudolph (49 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 76 comments) on Sunday, August 19, 2007 at 9:51:18 PM
 


Mail carrier who drives the rest of my colleagues nuts with my politics.
ScottMail carrier who drives the rest of my colleagues nuts with my politics.

The Bible has been spat upon once again.

Politicizing the gospel of Jesus Christ is a vile, disgusting act. I don't care if it comes from the right or the left. "This quote from the Bible PROVES we must impeach Bush, or Clinton, or we must vote for this candidate or that candidate, blah blah blah..." This is like a Muslim flushing the Koran down the toilet.

When Jesus told Pilate, "My kingdom is not of this world," is it not possible that he was rejecting the notion of being a political messiah? Some of his disciples - most notably the Zealots - were expecting that. But Jesus blew that concept out of the water. I will reject any attempt to politicize His Gospel.

by Scott (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 394 comments) on Sunday, August 19, 2007 at 10:56:06 PM
 


Mail carrier who drives the rest of my colleagues nuts with my politics.
ScottMail carrier who drives the rest of my colleagues nuts with my politics.

Nice try.

That dog won't hunt. The impeachment process is not handled by the judiciary. It is handled by representatives - and then senators, if it ever gets that far. It is a poltical process.

by Scott (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 394 comments) on Monday, August 20, 2007 at 12:11:01 PM
 


Mail carrier who drives the rest of my colleagues nuts with my politics.
ScottMail carrier who drives the rest of my colleagues nuts with my politics.

No, that's not politicizing the gospel

Because an elected official says "God bless America", that's politicizing the gospel? Nope. Anybody can say, "God bless America".

by Scott (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 394 comments) on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 at 9:13:18 PM
 

 

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