Yes, Bill, you are indeed full of it.

by Roark Howard (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 350 comments) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 8:35:14 AM

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Mr. Douglas, your obsession with pushing "The Shell Game" as the magic pill for all things 911Truther is beginning to rival CB's rantings on directed energy weapons...

by Tom Murphy (3 articles, 5 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 2103 comments [55 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 8:49:19 AM

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Well Murph, we all know you DO NOT want 9/11 truth out, at least you make your position apparent.  You've already said you support the neo-con agenda.  So this is really a non-issue with you.

But, for those who do want 9/11 truth out, but are holding out for "The Shell Game," you could have already gotten it from Amazon, they are shipping now.

BUT even moreso, if you look at the video trailer above for "The Shell Game," and then you look at Alten's website TheShellGame.net . . . there isn't any doubt he's already supporting 9/11 truth . . .

ergo my reference to if a new volunteer would walk in offering his skills to a 9/11 truth meeting . . . would we be glad he brought his skills, or would we treat him with suspicion?

Of course we'd welcome him, but here in cyberspace . . . and I'm not necessarily speaking of anyone here . . . but if you look back over the past posts . . . you''ll see that some people just shot from the hip and attacked this guy.   For what?  For doing what we supposedly all want, outting 9/11 truth in order to help stop a new war on Iran, etc.

View the above video trailer of The Shell Game, and then

Visit the book's site, TheShellGame.net and see if this author isn't for real on 9/11 truth?

I'm not sure what we have to do to "qualify" as a 9/11 truth supporter?

Is there a secret handshake or something I missed?

by Bill Douglas (69 articles, 2 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 434 comments) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 10:02:41 AM

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"Well Murph, we all know you DO NOT want 9/11 truth out, at least you make your position apparent.  You've already said you support the neo-con agenda."

I most certainly want the "truth" about the events of 9/11 "out".  What I don't want, though, is the version of truth espoused by the self-proclaimed and multi-fragmented 9/11 Truth Movement.  I believe that their "version(s)" fail to follow the scientific method when analyzing the available data, place conclusions routinely before objective analysis, and focus more so on political objectives rather than anything resembling the "truth" - whatever that may be to them.

Does this mean I support the "neo-con agenda"?  Well, it does if you're a 911Truther.  Personally, I consider myself a classic conservative and not a neo-conservative.  Regardless, I do have questions about what prompted Osama bin Laden to authorize the attacks, why were people not held accountable for their in competencies, and what lessons learned have been applied from the tragedy of 9/11. 

But do I accept that great majority of the 9/11 Commission Report and NIST reports?  Yes, I do.  And why?  Of all the competing theories that have been offered, these have followed the scientific method - in its purest form - the most.  As a result, the have analyzed the data and then proposed hypotheses that were subsequently tested.  They also have the advantage of being the least complex and, therefore, more desirable theories.The other theories (e.g., planted explosives, directed energy weapons, mini-nukes, and holograms/missiles) are absurd on their surfaces alone, but they require acceptance of not only total success BUT extreme sophistication of operations and logistics that involve VERY high degrees of complexity. 

How people can complain about the incompetence of this Administration yet give them credit for pulling of the 9/11 attacks as an inside job is totally foreign to me.  But if it works for them, then I say “go for it!”

by Tom Murphy (3 articles, 5 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 2103 comments [55 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 11:31:02 AM

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then we discuss. As much as I understand your point, Bill, I can't push a book I haven't had the chance to read.

“movement fundamentalists”

The movement came to an abrupt halt and was split into at least two major groups. If you're really part of the movement, you'll have taken notice of the split. Many of us have gone through more than one burn-out. Monkey no play no drum no mo.

Once I can get ahold of a copy....and that may take some time seeing as I don't happen to live in Springfield, USA, I may take the liberty of purchasing and reading it. Prior to that, I cannot endorse it and I hope you can understand my position.

Keep up the good work ! We're right behind ya !

by Tony Forest (7 articles, 18 quicklinks, 166 diaries, 1429 comments [5 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 8:51:31 AM

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I'm just saying, that I was a taken back by some posts that automatically attacked a guys motives BEFORE the book was read.

If you read through the posts on this book, you'll see what I'm talking about.

by Bill Douglas (69 articles, 2 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 434 comments) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 9:52:33 AM

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I'll eventually get around to reading the book, as well.  But my "objection" was not against Mr. Alten's motives for writing the book.  He's certainly entitled to them.  My concern is that you are marketing the book as non-fiction when it's clearly labeled as fiction.  That's deceitful and ironic when you consider that the book is essentially about someone's version of the "truth".

by Tom Murphy (3 articles, 5 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 2103 comments [55 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 11:04:04 AM

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Is not targeted to non-truthers.

The point ABOUT the book is targeted TO truthers.

For the first time, there is a viable mainstream vehicle to get thought provoking material in the hands of non-truthers who would otherwise never take those materials.

The point further is - that as a truther, we should use legitimate tools when they are available.

There is power in this new tool.

by Cheri Roberts (16 articles, 15 quicklinks, 10 diaries, 435 comments) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 3:19:43 PM

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Fiction is The Truth!

The Truth is Fiction!

You that have strayed from The Truth, follow Bill to The Fiction.

by Roark Howard (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 350 comments) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 10:59:04 AM

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 Roark, you know if you looked at "The Shell Game" it has REAL 9/11 TRUTH RESEARCH QUOTES IN IT!!

YOU KNOW THAT AT WWW.THESHELLGAME.NET HAS REAL 9/11 TRUTH LINKS!!

WHY DO YOU CONTINUE TO MALIGN AN AUTHOR, WHO IS SPREADING 9/11 TRUTH THROUGH HIS CRAFT?  WHY ATTACK THE MAN FOR BRINGING HIS SKILLS TO THE MOVEMENT?

Okay, he may not be as perfect and holy as Roark, God knows no one is.  But, if others want 9/11 truth to come out, and someone who has fame and noteriety is willing to put his career on the line to help out the truth . . . and people like Roark spit on his contribution . . .

Well that tells you alot more about Roark than it does the author who's put his website where his mouth is at:

www.TheShellGame.net

Roark why don't you point to all the incredible 9/11 truth work you've done, since you are so much more pure in your intentions than he is?

ALSO FOR THOSE SEEKING 9/11 TRUTH:

If you haven't seen the Japanese legislator who day before yesterday on national TV in Japan, charged the US with lying to Japan about how their citizens died on 9/11.

HE WAS AS KNOWLEDGEABLE AS ANY 9/11 TRUTH SEEKER.  IT WAS AMAZING!!  Go to below links to watch this 5 part video with english subtitles provided.  SHARE THIS WIDELY!!

http://www.911blogger.com/node/13392#comment-174493

NOTE THE ABOVE FANTASTIC VIDEO WAS SUPPLIED BY "PILOTS FOR 9/11 TRUTH" AND "PATRIOTSQUESTION911.ORG"

BOTH ARE IN THE "911 LINKS" SECTION OF "THE SHELL GAME"S WWW.THESHELLGAME.NET

GOT A PROBLEM WITH THAT ROARK??

by Bill Douglas (69 articles, 2 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 434 comments) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 11:05:46 AM

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Roark, you know if you looked at "The Shell Game" it has REAL 9/11 TRUTH RESEARCH QUOTES IN IT!! 

That statement is an oxymoron if I ever heard one. 

by Roark Howard (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 350 comments) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 11:27:17 AM

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Okay readers, we know Roark is a neo-con, so now those of us who actually care about our country, truth, and peace . . . can change lanes and go around him.

"The Shell Game" is an explosive new book from a NY Times best selling novelist, that has a website www.theshellgame.net that links to most major 9/11 truth research and activist groups and websites.

Tell everyone you know about this new action novel "The Shell Game," especially those friends and family who never could handle the ugly truth of 9/11.

You can simply say, "Here's a great action novel.  You'll love it."  As they are entertained by the pulse pounding action narrative . . . they'll read chapter heads of real 9/11 research, that will leave them knowing they've been lied to about 9/11.

PLUS you'll drive "The Shell Game" up in the sales charts, keeping it front and center at airports and major bookstores all over the country . . .

. . . which will keep millions of new eyes coming to all the major 9/11 truth sites linked at www.theshellgame.net

by Bill Douglas (69 articles, 2 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 434 comments) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 11:57:25 AM

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"You can simply say, 'Here's a great action novel.  You'll love it.'  As they are entertained by the pulse pounding action narrative . . . they'll read chapter heads of real 9/11 research, that will leave them knowing they've been lied to about 9/11."

Mr. Douglas, as the character Ernest Tucker from the movie "Pure Country" states:

"The funny thing about that little white speck on the top of chicken sh*t. That little white speck is chicken sh*t too," - click here .

by Tom Murphy (3 articles, 5 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 2103 comments [55 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 12:17:54 PM

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Tom, you'd be an expert on chickensh*t, since you still believe the official neo-con myth?

Why do you guys participate in a 9/11 truth strategy thread, when you still believe the BS put out by the neo-cons.

The BS no one is still buying except Tom and a couple of others.

If you want to get 9/11 truth out, not you Tom, I mean people who are critical thinkers . . .

Visit www.TheShellGame.net and SPREAD THE WORD, WIDE FAST AND FAR . . .

by Bill Douglas (69 articles, 2 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 434 comments) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 12:29:58 PM

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Bill, don't waste your energy on these guys. I get your point and I will get the book ...even if I have to have it flown in. Thanks for the tip and thanks for the good work you're doing. 

by Tony Forest (7 articles, 18 quicklinks, 166 diaries, 1429 comments [5 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 12:50:23 PM

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Thanks Tony, and please spread the resources at TheShellGame.net.

His whole book promotion is a 9/11 truth promotion, check out the book trailers "911 Trailer" and "Oil Trailer" at www.theshellgame.net

and please try to spread this info and resources through the internet.  The benefits are multi-dimensional for the truth movement.

by Bill Douglas (69 articles, 2 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 434 comments) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 12:57:05 PM

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http://www.stevealten.com/Shell_excerpt.pdf 

why wait, you can read the stilted dialog and the hackneyed clichés for yourself.

by Roark Howard (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 350 comments) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 1:24:35 PM

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On second thought and after reading the teaser, I don't think I'll read the book.  There's something about two-dimensional character development that I find unappealing.

"Hey, Bob," said the blonde flashing a seemingly innocent smile, "Could you get me a cup of coffee?"

LTC Robert "the Bobster" Johnson glanced quickly up at her and away from the Illudium PU 36 Explosive Space Modulator schematics that Al-Kwandi "CB" Hussein had provided him earlier, wondering what head game she was playing this time. 

"Sure," replied the colonel tersely and yet thinking to himself - Remember, cool as the dew atop a cucumber in the fall, Bobster.

Oh, yeah...  You got a thriller there.

Mr. Alten also fails at presenting a realistic military character in the form of COL Graeme "the Bull" Turnbull.  Very few who attain a Grade O6 would be "bragging" about theirs and their familiy's military exploits.  I could see a company grade officer doing this before others but not a field grade officer.  Also, there is no way in God's Good Green Earth that an O6 would be using the term "neocon" among strangers as if he were a drunken sailor on liberty  shouting obscenities at the "civies".

by Tom Murphy (3 articles, 5 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 2103 comments [55 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 2:24:19 PM

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this little piece was enough to convince me to get the book...;

"“When did Military Intelligence recruit you?”
“The day Psy Ops found out I spoke fluent Arabic.”"

Fluent Arabic ? Handy tool.

Selam and thanks again ! 

by Tony Forest (7 articles, 18 quicklinks, 166 diaries, 1429 comments [5 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 2:25:22 PM

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What Bill is saying is important.  As Bill describes, we can't be "movement fundamentalists"; we have to be "regular people" whose collective purpose is to BREAK OPEN the truth.  

I've just completed reading "The Shell Game."  (In fact, I bought and received 10 copies from Amazon three days ago.  Why don't we all buy a few copies.  We HAVE to get this to a #1 seller.   And yes, mention the book as often as you can in emails, conversations, on web posts, forums, ...  How about holding a sign: ""THE SHELL GAME" - IMPORTANT THRILLER - GET IT READ IT!"  Hold in front of book stores or at airports or a busy street corner.  DO SOMETHING!)  

Because we are all so "into" the truth, don't be surprised if there is something about 9/11 in the book that you wish had been presented somewhat differently.   Keep in mind the book is a political thriller.  That's important; we need people to WANT to read it and enjoy it and, at the same time, start to open a whole new world to them: the truth about 9/11.  The door/mind gets opened; they start looking further; they begin to understand what really happened; they start spreading the truth.

Don't be a "holier than thou 9/11 truth fundamentalist."  We don't have to agree on EVERY ASPECT of the truth.  But we do have to agree that what is important is to wake people up to the LIE that is the official story.  And we have to do it NOW!   

by wicbldw (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 1 comments) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 1:30:32 PM

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Well said, Wic   "The Shell Game" is a GREAT opportunity to expand the 9/11 truth movement . . . which is probably why so many attacks are coming at it  . . .

This, these attacks always come when something threatens to break out mass truth to a larger public regading the 9/11 official myth . . .

by Bill Douglas (69 articles, 2 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 434 comments) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 2:49:50 PM

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by marc awodey (4 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 34 comments) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 1:40:06 PM

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It's all about making money.  Jones, Fetzer, Avery, Rodriguez, Bollyn are all in it for the cash. 

 Bollyn, however, has moved back to his core, anti-semitic based writings.  It's hard to write about "the Truth" when you are on the run from the law. 

by Roark Howard (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 350 comments) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 2:15:30 PM

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What a ridiculous stretch -- implying that it's all-about-money to individuals making any kind of meaningful money off of a search for the Truth?!  What a flatulent assertion. 

ANYONE who has followed ANY NEWS (even MSM) over the last seven years KNOWS "a little" about the graft, cronyism and monstrous PROFITS realized by MIC related companies, administration cronies, OIL COMPANIES. 

Where are you coming from?

by boomerang (0 articles, 7 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 556 comments [215 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 4:19:19 PM

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Raork, you are pathetic.  Why insult Rodriguez. 

Roark sits behind his little computer screen shooting down William Rodriguez!! ??

Folks Roark is beneath contempt.

William Rodriguez was given the highest heroes award for his selfless heroism on 9/11 that saved hundreds of lives.

He nearly died, being the last one out, and caught trapped under WTC rubble.

He's now fought to say the truth that there were explosions in the WTCs in the basement BEFORE the plane hit the tower.

And little pathetic Roark now takes potshots at him without one bit of evidence to back it up.

YOu are a sick little man Roark, if you are a man.

by Bill Douglas (69 articles, 2 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 434 comments) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 11:47:52 PM

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He nearly died, being the last one out, and caught trapped under WTC rubble.

 Let’s look at William’s own words shall we?   

“Hi, I'm William Rodriguez. I'm not with the FDNY. Actually I’m the last survivor pulled from the rubble.” 

While it is possible that he may have been the last person to leave the north tower before it collapsed. Afterwards, he was pulled from the rubble approximately two hours later. He was interviewed live on CNN at 1:30 that afternoon.Port Authority Police officers Will Jimeno and John McLoughlin, became trapped by a collapse in the concourse between the towers after flight 175 hit the south tower. They survived that collapse and the collapse of both towers, and were rescued on the morning of September 12.

Genelle Guzman-McMillan, the last person to make it out of the wreckage alive, was pulled from the rubble more than a day after Rodriguez escaped.  

He's now fought to say the truth that there were explosions in the WTCs in the basement BEFORE the plane hit the tower.

William Rodriguez has stated the following; 

The fire, the ball of fire, for example, I was in the basement when the first plane hit the building. And at that moment, I thought it was an electrical generator that blew up at that moment. A person comes running into the office saying explosion, explosion, explosion. When I look at this guy; has all his skin pulled off of his body. Hanging from the top of his fingertips like it was a glove. And I said, what happened? He said the elevators.

What happened was the ball of fire went down with such a force down the elevator shaft on the 58th (50A) – freight elevator, the biggest freight elevator that we have in the North Tower, it went out with such a force that it broke the cables. It went down, I think seven flights. The person survived because he was pulled from the B3 level. But this person, being in front of the doors waiting for the elevator, practically got his skin vaporized. 

This is hardly consistent with his claim that there were explosions before the airplane impact.   

Certainly, Rodriguez acted courageously that day, as did countless others, some giving their lives in the process.  But Willies actions since then, shamelessly huckstering to the CT crowd, is what is truly despicable. 

by Roark Howard (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 350 comments) on Wednesday, Jan 16, 2008 at 9:07:39 AM

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What do you think will happen when people accept the truth?  Do you think they'll be any different when they figured there wasn't any WMD in Iraq?

by Jeanette Doney (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 6 diaries, 307 comments [1 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 2:32:14 PM

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 the only people who don't accept the truth, are the truthers. 

by marc awodey (4 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 34 comments) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 2:50:20 PM

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Jeannette, your equation of "Iraq" and "9/11" are off the mark.

Yes, Americans were not outraged that we'd bombed and killed innocent Iraqis based on the "WMD" lies.

Because they weren't Americans.

When they find out their govt., or at least some in it, had a hand in murdering people like them, Americans . . . there will be a righteous rage.

Americans have always yawned when exposed to truths about the CIA or US militarism killing innocents worldwide.

BUT, when they find out these attack dogs turned on their own people, our fellow Americans . . . WATCH OUT.

"The Shell Game,"s success can help hasten this growing up process for Americans.

www.TheShellGame.net

by Bill Douglas (69 articles, 2 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 434 comments) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 2:53:44 PM

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Also, as you saw the Japanese Govt. is waking up to 9/11 lies.  Two days ago a Japanese Legislature unveiled 9/11 truth facts and grilled their PM for over 30 minutes on 9/11.

If Americans aren't prepped for the outrage other countries are expanding because of the 9/11 lies . . . Americans may become hateful of all countries.

They have to be prepped with as much 9/11 truth as possible, so they'll understand why the Japanese, The Danes, etc. etc. are growing angry about 9/11.

by Bill Douglas (69 articles, 2 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 434 comments) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 2:56:38 PM

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please cite your source in the japanese government action. can you confirm it from any NON 9/11 ECHO CHAMBER site? 

by marc awodey (4 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 34 comments) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 3:12:18 PM

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JAPANESE PARLIAMENTARIAN DEMANDS NEW 9/11 INVESTIGATION:
Part 1:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AH1UA3ijXug
Part 2:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02esZQr-u74
Part 3:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t-dZiNE9NI
Part 4:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV_WIZ1PDt4
Part 5:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaEGhiHhZ1Y

by Bill Douglas (69 articles, 2 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 434 comments) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 3:55:18 PM

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by Bill Douglas (69 articles, 2 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 434 comments) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 3:57:08 PM

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by marc awodey (4 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 34 comments) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 3:06:38 PM

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They had already gotten what they wanted by beginning the war.

There's your answer from a Truther.

Can you refute it? I haven't met a non-Truther that could :rollseyes: 

by Cheri Roberts (16 articles, 15 quicklinks, 10 diaries, 435 comments) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 3:28:55 PM

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by marc awodey (4 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 34 comments) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 4:13:32 PM

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Marc, if you still by the official 9/11 myth you're living in a fantasy land. The Air Force was disabled by multiple war games on 9/11. Pilotsfor911Truth.org The "terrorists" who supposedly flew the planes did not have the skills to fly them with the precision of the 9/11 attacks, especially the Pentagon Pilotsfor911Truth.org The WTC towers could not have all 3 experienced global collapse, defying the laws of physics, path of least resistence, etc. etc. ae911truth.org The endless struggle of Bush et al to STOP all 9/11 investigations has been a wholley bizarre thing to watch all in itself. For god's sake there is thermite in the WTC debris, a patented control demolition steel cutting agent. So who controlled WTC security before 9/11, so charges could be placed? Not cave dwelling terrorists, but Securicom, with GW Bush's brother and cousin on the board. WAKE UP MARK! Yesterday the Japanese Parliament said we've been lied to about 9/11 on national TV, Danish national TV has had 9/11 truth spoken to its listeners, and Loose Change has been seen on national TV in many nations . . . . . . only US corporate media is still pretending . . . The world knows we were lied to on 9/11. You say "they could have invaded Iraq without 9/11." WELL THE NEOCONS DIDN'T THINKS SO, AND IN THEIR PRE-BUSH ELECTION "PROJECT FOR A NEW AMERICAN CENTURY" PLANS, SAID SO. They said they NEEDED a cataclysmic attack on the US homeland like a New Pearl Harbor, to get what they needed. Marc, have you even viewed "9/11 Mysteries" documentary yet?????

by Bill Douglas (69 articles, 2 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 434 comments) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 4:44:44 PM

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How I answered your question dead on in a matter of few words whereas you in a plethora of words still have not answered mine.

by Cheri Roberts (16 articles, 15 quicklinks, 10 diaries, 435 comments) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 5:44:11 PM

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first thanks for the links. but this is simply one member of the diet - not "the japanese government." that would be like saying ron paul talks for the american government. also he askes the prime minister why he thinks the taliban caused 9/11 - yes this member is clearly influenced by the "truth" movement, and was uninformed about what the PM's position actually was. we don't know who the member of the diet is, or if he has any following, or how the diet responded to his speech. this is a An Appeal to Authority  fallacy-  a fallacy with the following form:

1. Person A is (claimed to be) an authority on subject S.

2. Person A makes claim C about subject S.

3. Therefore, C is true.

 and that’s just the most simple fallacy...

also the videos are posted by a "truther" source, and are hyped by prison planet and other uncritical sites across the internet. 

by marc awodey (4 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 34 comments) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 4:42:48 PM

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Mark, if you understand logic, then you must not have investigated 9/11.

Because the official myth is just that.  A myth.

 Again, have you watched "9/11 Mysteries"??

If not, go to TheShellGame.net and click on "911Links" and then you'll see url links for "9/11 Mysteries" which you can watch free online.

by Bill Douglas (69 articles, 2 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 434 comments) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 4:46:56 PM

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Mr. Douglas, you're receiving fire as if you've been targeted by a MLRS salvo.  While I might think this unfair under different circumstances, I really can't today because you've exposed yourself consistently and repeatedly as "The Shell Game" busker.  Methinks, though, that your constant repitition of previously debunked 9/11 "truths" only validates the religious-like quality of your Truther position and certainly not any of the science.

I'm happy you have faith in what you espouse, but the lack of objectivity in favor political expediency in your assertions fails to influence via reason the vast majority of uncommitted (or uncaring as some would think) Americans. 

Ms. Roberts claims that this new [media] tool need only influence the already self-proclaimed Truthers.  If this is correct, then you've probably already reached market saturation at the 31,000 pre-orders on the book.  However, I thought the intent was to export the Truther beliefed to the greater audience, no?

If it is the larger audience, Mr. Alten and you are going to need more than the same old linking of disparate events.  Also, you might need to explain the LDS link between Dr. Jones, Mr. Alten, and the publisher.  That too is noteworthy.

by Tom Murphy (3 articles, 5 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 2103 comments [55 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 5:46:24 PM

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Sorry Murph, much as it pains you "9/11 Mysteries" has NOT been debunked.  In fact it is all from corporate media clips.

Only it puts them "together."

Sorry Murph, "9/11 Mysteries" is a very solid documentary.  Anyone who hasn't seen it should.

See links at TheShellGame.net under "911 Links"

by Bill Douglas (69 articles, 2 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 434 comments) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 11:41:54 PM

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And if I put Lego pieces from separate and distinct sets together to create a castle, does that mean the sets were always a castle?  Or does it mean I had to pull what pieces I wanted out from one set (i.e., context) and link these to other handpicked pieces from other sets (i.e., 9/11 conspiracy theory)?

In this example, the 911Truther is the valiant creator of truth that's glaring at the parents who are saying, "You're doing it wrong."

The 9/11 Mysteries have been debunked, and you just need to look at the Legos as separate sets that can be played with but not necessarily mixed and matched at the individual piece level.

by Tom Murphy (3 articles, 5 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 2103 comments [55 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 11:50:20 PM

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Tom, you wrote:

Also, you might need to explain the LDS link between Dr. Jones, Mr. Alten, and the publisher.  That too is noteworthy.

Can you expand on this please? 

by Roark Howard (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 350 comments) on Wednesday, Jan 16, 2008 at 9:24:01 AM

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The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS or the better known "Mormons") seems to be intertwined with Dr. Jones - http://www.physics.byu.edu/directory.aspx?personID=36 , Mr. Alten - http://www.cedarfort.com/author/Alten.html , and Mr. Alten's publisher – Cedar Fort, Inc. – http://www.cedarfort.com/ . Interestingly, Cedar Fort offered Mr. Alten its largest ever advance ($50,000 USD) on his novel "The Shell Game" - http://www.religionnewsblog.com/19038/david-ridges . This book is also the first that Mr. Alten has published through Cedar Fort.

Of further interest, Brigham Young University (BYU), an LDS-owned institution, continues to retain Dr. Jones, even though it publicly forced Dr. Jones to retire. The claim by BYU was that it, "[P]lanned to review the paper to see if it met scientific standards of peer review. The university also expected to look at statements made by Jones at conferences and in the media and determine if Jones was appropriately distancing himself from BYU when he spoke about his explosives theory," - http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/1,1249,650200587,00.html . The review was never completed because it became part of Dr. Jones's retirement package negotiations.

And finally, Cedar Fort is a publisher that's interested in "...publish[ing] LDS fiction and non-fiction, generally... more than ninety projects each year. We are always willing to look at works that can crossover to the national market. We are currently accepting submissions for fiction, non-fiction, "How-to" books, and books about healthy living," - http://www.cedarfort.com/submission.html .

Does this mean, then, that "The Shell Game" is LDS fiction? If yes, then I'm wondering why a decidedly religious publisher wants to support a concept like 9/11 Truth? I really don't know the answer to this question or if there really is anything to these connections. But do you see how easy it is to create a conspiracy?

by Tom Murphy (3 articles, 5 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 2103 comments [55 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Jan 16, 2008 at 11:08:00 AM

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sorry the counterpunch links didn't work. click on the link and go to counterpunch.org then from the site do a search for 9/11, and you get the articles. here's another this is from PRA

http://www.publiceye.org/conspire/conspiracism-911.html

by marc awodey (4 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 34 comments) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 6:36:59 PM

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ALL ROADS LEAD TO 9-11 OK, now for the big one. If you agree that I have shown that we are fighting wars against a religion, not small cells of terrorists, for the main purpose of money (oil) and that the people in charge are high in the government and big business and are the only ones profiting from these wars, wouldn't you like to find the reason all this was started? When a crime occurs, what is the first question of the investigator? It is 'who stands to profit from the crime?' The second is 'preserve any and all POSSIBLE evidence' so that various experts can analyze it and try to determine who is responsible. So, apply those to the biggest crime is US history, 9-11. Who stands to profit from the wars started from this incident? And of course, the answer is the same people who wrote that their policies of change in the PNAC document could not be effected "absent some catalyzing event, like another Pearl Harbour"; and those in the arms and oil business. What happened to the evidence? The steel from the WTC was quickly sold to recyclers overseas, except for some that was re-used here in the building of a couple of new ships of war. Not one CSI type individual was allowed to examine the evidence, other than NIST and FEMA, and their reports, even when they observe an anamoly like sulfur deposits on the steel beams, do nothing to try to explain it, while ignoring much of the data observed from seismographs and the 'inexplicable' destruction of WTC building 7 late in the afternoon of 9-11. Speaking for myself as a meteorologist with a minor in physics, I can tell you that the governments theory of how the towers fell CANNOT happen in the universe as we know it. No building that falls in a 'pancake collapse', where the stories of the towers that failed in the areas of the fires collapsed and the increasing stress on the floor below then caused these floors in turn to collapse one by one, can fall to the ground at free-fall speed, the speed an object dropped from the top of the towers through clear air would take to hit the ground. Neither can their story explain why huge chunks of the building, one weighing as much as TWO fully loaded 767's were thrown sideways from the collapse and embed themselves in other buildings 450 feet away, nor the FACT that over 90% of the concrete in these buildings was pulverized to dust. These things can only occur with the addition of massive amounts of energy, in the form of explosive/demolition charges. The sulfur deposits mentioned but never explained by NIST have been explained by a physics professor from BYU, who was sent some samples of the WTC steel by a concerned rescue worker who was forced to 'steal' it during the cleanup. Here is a link to his peer reviewed article on the subject, in which he postulates that an extreme heat version of thermate, called thermite, was responsible. click here These substances are used widely by large demolition companies to bring a building down in it's own footprint. There are two main reasons the WTC 1 and 2 look different to the eye of one who has seen large buildings demolished on shows on the Discovery Channel and others. 1) The building were demolished from the top down, not the usual bottom up model, and 2) the amount of explosives used was overkill, used to 'Shock and Awe' the people who witnessed this on TV. If you watch WTC-7 come down on video, it's collapse follows the usual pattern associated with demolition, as central interior columns are taken out first, the building 'crimps' or appears to fold in on itself, then comes down. If you watch slow motion of the towers coming down, you can see explosive 'squib' charges detonating on floors well below the area that is currently collapsing. There is so much more evidence to see that refutes the story issued by our government, and if you haven't seen any of the documentaries on the subject, here are some of the best. All use video taken that day by all the mainstream media sources; most of this video was shown only on 9-11 then never again. All of these can watched for free on Google, and if you wish to watch them full screen, download the player and the movie from the site and watch it that way. Here is a partial list for those who are now able to "handle the truth". "In Plane Site", "9-11 Mysteries", "Press for Truth" (about the fight of the 9-11 widows to get Bush to start a formal inquiry), Alex Jones' "Terrorstorm" and the best of them all, by two college students for an initial budget under $10,000, is "Loose Change" This documentary has been updated several times and the newest one is the "second edition, recut". They are also currently making one for mainstream movie release with a budget of 60 million that should come out this spring. Other mainstream movies that explore some of these subjects, at least peripherally, are of course Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 9-11", Aaron Russo's "Freedom to Fascism", and "Why We Fight"; two are available at big video stores, or in theaters not controlled by big media in the case of Russo's film. Until we change our perceptions of the war and the real reasons it is being fought, we will continue to make things worse. We desperately need to 'clean house' in our government, mainly of the un-elected people behind the scenes that are goading us to an ever-expanding war. If we don't restore the rights and priviledges that have been stolen from the people by the the two Patriots Acts, the Warner act, and the Military Commission Act, among others, BEFORE Bush leaves office (or after, using my favorite word right now, impeachment) the next president, whether Democrat or Republican, will continue to consolidate power in the executive branch and we will become more and more fascist. Already, protests get no mainstream media coverage, and protests in 'sensitive areas' like near a speech by Bush get moved quite far way from the action. The neocons have learned well the lesson "out of sight, out of mind'. Protesters have been arrested for no reason, beaten and even tasered by over zealous cops, emboldened by the fact that none of them are ever held accountable for such actions. We have e rounded up illegal aliens and their families and incarcerated them in 'camps' not to mention the over 1000 US Muslims rounded up after 9-11spending time in places like Git mo. People have attacked the lawyers working pro bongo for these poor souls, even going so far as to name many of the law firms they work for, and calling for big business to boycott these patriotic firms. Mainstream media's monopolies must be broken up, so at least some journalists can work for where they feel they can speak the truth without fear of reprisals such as losing their jobs. The main thing we need is a comprehensive investigation of a whole slew of subjects, including 9-11, war profiteering, Cheney's role with Halliburton while VP, and the deaths of Senator Wellstone and the great journalist Hunter S Thompson. I close with a portion of an article written and published within 24 hours of 9-11; reading it over five years later seems to make the case for a man able to see the future. It comes from Thompson's "Kingdom of Fear". "The Battle of the World Trade Center lasted about 99 minutes and cost 20,000 lives in two hours (according to unofficial estimates as of midnight Tuesday)"... "And it was not even Bombs that caused this massive damage. No nuclear missiles were launched from any foreign soil, no enemy bombers flew over New York and Washington to rain death on innocent Americans. No. It was four commercial jetliners. .... The towers are gone now, reduced to bloody rubble, along with all hope of Peace in Our Time, in the United States or in any other country. Make no Mistake about it: We are At War now--with somebody-- and we will stay at At War with that mysterious Enemy for the rest of our lives. It will be a Religious War, a sort of Christian Jihad, fueled by religious hatred and led by merciless fanatics on both sides. It will be guerrilla warfare on a global scale, with no front lines and no identifiable enemy. Osama Bin Laden may be a primitive 'figurehead'--or even dead, for all we know--but whoever put those All-American jet planes loaded with All-American fuel into the Twin Towers and the Pentagon did it with chilling precision and accuracy." .... "We are going to punish somebody for this attack, but just who or what will be blown to smithereens for it is hard to say. Maybe Afghanistan, maybe Pakistan or Iraq, or possible all three at once. Who knows? Not even the Generals in what remains of the Pentagon or the New York papers calling for WAR seem to know who did it or where to look for them. This is going to be a very expensive war, and Victory is not guaranteed--for anyone, and certainly not for anyone as baffled as George W Bush. All he knows is that his father started the war a long time ago, and that he, the goofy child-President, has been chosen by Fate and the global Oil industry to finish it Now. He will declare a National Security Emergency and clamp down Hard on Everybody, no matter where they live or why. If the guilty won't hold up their hands and confess, he and the Generals will ferret them out by force. Good luck. He is in for a profoundly difficult job--armed as he is with no credible Military Intelligence, no witnesses, and only the ghost of Bin Laden to blame for this tragedy. OK. It is 24 hours later now, and we are not getting much information about the five W's of this thing. The numbers out of the Pentagon are baffling, as if Military Censorship has already been imposed on the media. It is ominous. The only news on TV comes from weeping victims and ignorant speculators. The lid is on. Loose Lips Sink Ships. Don't say anything that might give aid to The Enemy." September 12, 2001. (6)

by Brad Griffeth (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 14 diaries, 138 comments [12 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 8:16:43 PM

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To those who push the government line - You can put it behind you, tell me to get over it believe what you will and back who you want . I ain't over it, it's personal and I belong to a group of the finest human beings ever to walk the face of the earth,People with balls, people with-out regard for their own safety,people who model the christian calling to lay down your life for a stranger,people who get up in the middle of the night while the rest of you sleep ,people who would get up ,no jump up from a family Thanksgiving dinner to help a stranger, even you . The brotherhood of FIRE FIGHTERS those who ran to serve and save on that fateful day,while cowards ran the other way, like they did uncountable times before and what thanks did they get? They were murdered, by whom is not yet clear but murder most foul of 100's of us happened that day. Watch out when you attack one of us you attack all of us. Don't ever show your face as you push this bullshit because we don't suffer fools lightly.

by tjb (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 255 comments [9 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 10:56:29 PM

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The FDNY does deserve answers.  Answers that neither the 9/11 Commission Report or subsequent NFPA report even asked.  For example:

(1)  Why wasn't ICS implemented appropriately by the FDNY on 9/11?

(2)  Why didn't the ICs realize that a two-hour fire-rated, spray-on fire proofing meant exactly that?

(3)  Why weren't the first responders ordered back after 45 minutes ascent to provide for (what was thought) a sufficient return time?

The FDNY leadership response was never really reviewed post 9/11.  This is one area I think deserves a bit more scrutiny. 

To claim, though, that firefighters alone are the bearers of grief in this tragedy is unnecessarily limiting.  I say this not to be disrespectful but rather to be honest.  And my memory serves me quite well in that the FDNY was appropriately honored not only by their city and state - but a nation, as well.

And I, just as any other American of any 9/11 belief or not, will show my face because united we stand and divided we fall - or, at least, that's what we were taught as we learned about what it meant to be an American.  But we seem to have lost our way as Americans at some point - and it was well before this current Administration (not that it hasn't necessarily helped, though, either).

by Tom Murphy (3 articles, 5 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 2103 comments [55 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 at 11:42:06 PM

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Tom, why have you no curiosity about all the firefighters that heard explosions in the WTC towers "BEFORE" the plane hit??

Why no curiosity about the fact that the fire dept. officer who reached the fires in the WTC tower reported in "two isolated fires, we can bring em down with two hoses."  AND SUDDENLY THE ENTIRE BUILDING COLLAPSES . . . FROM TWO ISOLATED FIRES??

TOM ANY INVESTIGATOR WOULD WANT TO KNOW THE ANSWERS TO THESE QUESTIONS.

DON'T you need to know if thermate is in the WTC rubble?

Don't you need to know why molten steel roiled in the WTC debris for weeks after 9/11 . . . WHEN BUILDING FIRE AND JET FUEL DO NOT BURN NEARLY HOT ENOUGH TO MELT STEEL . . . BUT THERMATE DOES!!??

COME ON TOM . . . IF YOUR GOING TO BE CURIOUS DON'T LET BUSH AND THE CORPORATE MEDIA DRAW CHAULK LINES IN YOUR MIND TELLING YOU WHAT YOU ARE ALLOWED TO BE CURIOUS ABOUT!!

by Bill Douglas (69 articles, 2 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 434 comments) on Wednesday, Jan 16, 2008 at 1:07:00 PM

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Mr. Douglas, I did and still do (e.g., the questions above) have curiosity about the events you referenced (and have provided responses to each below). However, I believe my curiosity was sated with the answers I found. Therefore, I am not compelled to beat that dead horse any further. Please note that while the associated links with each curiosity direct you to one site, the applicable sections are well-referenced and can further direct the reader to primary sources of information (which I did follow, of course).

"Tom, why have you no curiosity about all the firefighters that heard explosions in the WTC towers 'BEFORE' the plane hit??"

Hearing an "explosion" doesn't mean it was caused by explosive demolitions. Many things in every day life sound like explosions (e.g., a paint bucket dropped accidentally – or intentionally if your David Letterman - from a roof and onto the underlying driveway). And what exactly is "almost all"? Well, it's false the way it's used here, but it's also misleading in that you're trying to create a larger population of firefighters who heard explosions than what actually existed.

The explosions could have been from a number of sources (e.g., electrical transformers, shifting dynamic loads carried by the structural frame, or even falling bodies). A better summary that makes more sense than planted explosives is presented here - http://www.debunking911.com/explosions.htm .

"Why no curiosity about the fact that the fire dept. officer who reached the fires in the WTC tower reported in "two isolated fires, we can bring em down with two hoses." AND SUDDENLY THE ENTIRE BUILDING COLLAPSES . . . FROM TWO ISOLATED FIRES??"

I believe you're neglecting to describe the environment that was present when the late Deputy Chief Palmer uttered those words. His presence within the South Stairway A of the South Tower (WTC 2) around the 78th Floor only afforded him a limited view of his "world" at the time he spoke those words. But that certainly doesn't mean the fires were limited solely to the 78th Floor - http://www.debunking911.com/fire.htm .

But even more so than this, I vividly recall the video of two towers clearly ablaze in massive fires across multiple floors. Common sense tells me, "Wow, those are some serious fires!" Those red/orange tendrils you see leaping out of the smoke are... fires - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_gdCrmbrIg .

"DON'T you need to know if thermate is in the WTC rubble?"

"Mr. Douglas, don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry," – a little "Incredible Hulk" parody there. I have discussed the issue of thermite/thermate ad infinitum here – The allegation thermate is not creditable given the issues associated with the two analyzed samples (among other issues) - http://www.debunking911.com/thermite.htm , http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/diarypage.php?did=5613 , and http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/diarypage.php?did=5091 .

"Don't you need to know why molten steel roiled in the WTC debris for weeks after 9/11 . . . WHEN BUILDING FIRE AND JET FUEL DO NOT BURN NEARLY HOT ENOUGH TO MELT STEEL . . . BUT THERMATE DOES!!??"

I was curious about the claim of molten steel but felt that the heat caused by compression played a roll in these alleged observations. You know, why does the tire pump's exterior metal surface heat up after pumping? The air being compressed causes s heat build-up. The same happens when you take 110-story building and compress it into a 10-story debris pile. And my research revealed that there is no evidence that identified "molten" steel. There was glowing, "red hot" steel but none that was molten - http://www.debunking911.com/moltensteel.htm .

"COME ON TOM . . . IF YOUR GOING TO BE CURIOUS DON'T LET BUSH AND THE CORPORATE MEDIA DRAW CHAULK LINES IN YOUR MIND TELLING YOU WHAT YOU ARE ALLOWED TO BE CURIOUS ABOUT!!"

Now on this point I can agree. Limiting yourself to what another tells you, even if it's in the new fictional thriller "The Shell Game" - http://www.amazon.com/Shell-Game-Steve-Alten/dp/1599550946 - is dangerous and dishonest to a fault with yourself. Make certain that if you are on a Quest for Truth you look at all the available data and not just those items that support you pre-determined conclusions.

by Tom Murphy (3 articles, 5 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 2103 comments [55 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Jan 16, 2008 at 2:49:55 PM

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