From the looks of it, the only thing thats going to stop a police state is a bloody revolution.  I keep telling my friends to purchase guns and not to register them. Its not the governments business if you own a gun or not.

I live in Biloxi, MS. Katrina ground zero. In New Orleans, thanks to the Patriot Act, the national guard showed up to homes and demanded they turn in their guns. If they didnt, they went to jail. In America.. unbelievable isnt it? 

Thomas Jefferson warned us about the second amendment.. I dont know the quote word for word, but it went to the tune of 'Nobody will complain about losing their right to bear arms, until they need it.' 

 

by Parke Nicholson (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 29 comments) on Saturday, Jan 19, 2008 at 6:31:11 PM

TASER SAVES LIVES EVERYDAy

Drugs Kill

Liberal weenies just can't stand the fact that Taser takes the fight out of criminals

Liberals believe criminals deserve a chance at a fair fight with "da Man"

Horseshit, just like this Op-Ed

by Elan Moon (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 13 comments) on Saturday, Jan 19, 2008 at 8:16:01 PM

So Backlund deserved to die then genius?

by Anthony Wade (160 articles, 2 quicklinks, 44 diaries, 890 comments [19 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Saturday, Jan 19, 2008 at 11:38:49 PM

Even convicted felons are protected from "cruel and unusual punishment"! Tasers are cruel, danergous and unusual and are used by idiots, hot dogs, poorly trained "cops" on innocent people. I have not read or seen a SINGLE account of someone being tasered who "deserved" it! NOT ONE!

by Len Hart (134 articles, 175 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 555 comments) on Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 3:05:17 AM

Drugs like Zoloft? Or Paxil? Or Welbutrin? Which drugs? Drugs like Seconal? Like Ritalin? Clonapin? Diazepam? 

Only the ignorant and willfully dull think that calling people "weenie" does anything for an argument. This is not third grade, son. So if you want to sit at the big table, you have to think out your arguments and stop calling names. Now wipe ya chin. 

by Nezua (42 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 93 comments) on Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 9:01:13 AM

Dummie, you're not a criminal until you're convicted in court. Most of those slain by a Taser were innocent until, if ever, found guilty in a court of law, which they never got the chance to attend. If you really want to take the fight out of criminals, you should argue that we go gun down everyone in prison. Won't be any fight left then, absolutely zero. Come on, let's do 'em all. Save the taxpayer some money. Maybe sell the body parts too.

by Mac McKinney (53 articles, 113 quicklinks, 240 diaries, 1413 comments [31 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 1:57:21 PM

It seems to me that taser manufacturers put these devices on the market without adequate testing, especially when being used on children under 10 and pregnant woman. If people continue to die then obviously we need to take another look at how and why these things are happening and how to prevent it in the future (At this time it seems that no one really cares). “As long as it’s not me or my family is truly a deadly state of mentality".  I for one do not want to be a government guinea pig. Now don’t get me wrong I believe that police should be able to protect themselves, that’s not my argument, I just think that we need to take a closer look and the medical risk of the use of tasers. People can say “well it’s better than using a gun”. That’s true, however guns ARE designed to kill, tasers ARE NOT.

by julie miller (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 5 comments) on Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 1:31:22 AM

This argument is a red herring.... the real issue is whether or not we wish to live in a police state. All the tasers do is provide the state with more control and a mechanism to instill fear in the populace. 

by richard (0 articles, 5 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 1359 comments [399 recommended, 8 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 4:09:17 PM

Even convicted felons are protected from "cruel and unusual punishment"! Tasers are cruel, danergous and unusual and are used by idiots, hot dogs, poorly trained "cops" on innocent people. I have not read or seen a SINGLE account of someone being tasered who "deserved" it! NOT ONE!

by Len Hart (134 articles, 175 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 555 comments) on Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 3:03:49 AM

You say:

>>They start with pretending that seat belt laws are designed for safety<<

I want to believe you are kidding, but I know you are not. You must be the "victim" of too many traffic tickets with an ax to grind with law enforcement.

Back to Tasers; did I mention TASERS SAVE LIVES EVERYDAY

by Elan Moon (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 13 comments) on Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 8:23:04 AM

I agree that seatbelts are helpful. I do not agree someone has the right to harass or ticket me for choosing not to wear one. 

 And you have no business talking about what credibility the author has when you can hardly spell and are telling people that tasers save lives. You sound like chota. Smell like chota. Bet you are.

by Nezua (42 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 93 comments) on Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 9:04:14 AM

Here is a little education you will never receive from your surfing

The critics will never be satisfied.
Amnesty International and other police critics call for 'independent studies' of TASERs. The federal government, via the Department of Justice, awards research grants for exactly that: independent studies. The latest study hits the street, and the critics are quoted across the land: 'Well, we're not sure how independent the study was.'
Never mind the study results, in this case that the TASER caused no serious injury in 99.7% of nearly 1,000 uses in multiple jurisdictions, where local doctors studied every incident.
The critics live in a delusional world where force is never used, and there is no need for police officers. The media lives in a dollars-and-cents world, where the critics make headlines on the back of your professional efforts to keep society safe. Conflict sells newspapers and airtime.
'And that's the way it is,' as Walter Cronkite used to say at the end of each broadcast.
Maybe so, but after nearly 32 years in law enforcement, I’m still not used to it. Silly me!
You, on the other hand, live in a world that presents its difficulties to you day in, day out, and on a moment’s notice, or no notice at all. And your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to keep that world as safe as you can, despite the cries of those who wouldn’t know a legitimate use of force if it hit them in the face.
Enough of my rant!
The best thing I can do for you this month is arm you with a list of recently completed studies that help answer questions about the safety of electronic weapons. You can be sure that the critics will say that there aren’t enough of these studies, or they aren’t independent, or whatever else they can dream up.
Here goes:
The TASER safety study referred to above was conducted at Wake Forest University by Dr. William Bozeman, an associate professor of emergency medicine at Wake Forest University School of Medicine. The study was funded by the National Institute of Justice. In 962 incidents, just three resulted in serious injury, two of those from falling. One was a case of rhabdomyolysis, or muscle tissue breakdown, which is sometimes seen in people experiencing excited delirium. This study was widely publicized in early October.
Another study compared TASER effects to other types of use of force. Entitled, “The impact of conducted energy devices and other types of force and resistance on officer and suspect injuries,” published in October by Emerald Group Publishing Limited’s “Policing: an International Journal of Police Strategies & Management,” this study was authored by Michael R. Smith, Robert J. Kaminski, Jeffrey Rojek, Geoffrey P. Alpert and Jason Mathis, of the Department of Criminology and Criminal Justice, University of South Carolina.

Its stated purpose was “. . . to examine the effect of police use of conducted energy devices (CEDs) on officer and suspect injuries while controlling for other types of force and resistance and other factors.' The study’s practical implications were that, “. . . relative to other forms of force, the use of CEDs and pepper spray can reduce the risk of injury to both suspects and law enforcement officers. This information should prove useful to law enforcement agencies considering adopting CEDs and suggests that agencies should consider the use of these less lethal alternatives in place of hands-on tactics against actively resistant suspects.'
Quite a few new medical studies have been released in the past few weeks. All of these studies affirmed the general safety of the TASER® electronic control device. Six (6) of these studies were presented at the Fourth Mediterranean Emergency Medicine Congress (MEMC IV), in Sorrento, Italy during September 15-18, 2007.
Several of these studies used human volunteers that underwent cardiovascular and physiologic evaluations on the effects of TASER activation in a human body and reached the following conclusions
(Abstract) (Poster) (09/17/07) Ultrasound Measurement of Cardiac Activity During Conducted Electrical Weapon Application in Exercising Adults. J. Ho; R. Reardon; D. M. Dawes; M. Johnson; J. Miner.
Conclusions: A 15-second CEW application on exercised volunteers did not demonstrate any evidence of induced tachyarrhythmia. It is unlikely that CEW exposure induces cardiac rate capture or tachyarrhythmia in humans.
(Abstract) (Poster) (09/18/07) Absence of Electrocardiographic Change Following Prolonged Application of a Conducted Electrical Weapon in Physically Exhausted Adults. J. Ho; D. Dawes; H. Calkins; M. Johnson.
Conclusions: Prolonged 15-second CEW application in a physically exhausted adult human sample did not cause a detectable change in their 12-lead ECGs. Theories of CEW induced dysrhythmias are not supported by our findings.
(Abstract) (Poster) (09/19/07) 15-Second Conducted Electrical Weapon Exposure Does Not Cause Core Temperature Elevation In Non-Environmentally Stressed Resting Adults. D. M. Dawes; J. Ho; M. Johnson; J. Miner.
Conclusions: In summary, our results do not show that a 15-second conducted electrical weapon discharge significantly affects core body temperature in non-environmentally stressed resting adults. While additional studies are needed, our data suggests that theories about conducted electrical weapons contributing to hyperthermia are likely unfounded.
(Abstract) (Poster) (09/19/07) The Neuroendocrine Effects of the TASER X26 Conducted Electrical Weapon as Compared to Oleoresin Capsicum. D. M. Dawes; J. Ho; M. Johnson; J. Miner.
Conclusions: The results suggest a significant greater level of activation of the stress cascade with O.C. compared to the CEW. Overlapping confidence intervals preclude a definitive statement about the other measurements, but do not suggest a greater activation of the stress cascade by the CEW than O.C.
(Abstract) (Poster) (09/19/07) 15-Second Conducted Electrical Weapon Application Does Not Impair Basic Respiratory Parameters, Venous Blood Gases, or Blood Chemistries. D. M. Dawes; J. Ho; M. Johnson; J. Miner.
Conclusions: As with the previous study, this study suggests that exposure to a CEW does not significantly impair respiration. As in the previous study, pCO2 decreased and pO2 increased as a result of the exposure. There was no change in blood pH. While this study is small, it adds to the growing body of literature that is demonstrating that these weapons have a favorable risk-benefit ratio and are appropriate additions to the use of force continua of police agencies.
(Abstract) (Poster) (09/19/07) Breathing Parameters, Venous Gases, and Chemistries with Exposure to a New Wireless Projectile Conducted Electrical Weapon. D. M. Dawes; J. Ho; M. Johnson; J. Miner; E. Lundin.
Conclusions: This study demonstrates that the new CEW has no important deleterious effects on respiratory parameters, blood chemistries, or venous blood gases. These results are consistent with previous results for the TASER X26 CEW.
(08/29/07) Physiological Effects of a Conducted Electrical Weapon on Human Subjects, Gary M. Vilke, MD, Christian M. Sloane, MD, Katie D. Bouton, BS, Fred W. Kolkhorst, PhD, Saul D. Levine, MD, Tom S. Neuman, MD, Edward M. Castillo, PhD, MPH, Theodore C. Chan, MD. Article in Press, Ann Emerg Med. 2007;xx:xxx.
Conclusion: A 5-second exposure of a TASER X26 to healthy law enforcement personnel does not result in clinically significant changes of physiologic stress.
The above studies can be reviewed here (create login, and open 'search' tab and search by author’s last name or abstract title or number).
The abstracts below can be viewed here.
(09/19/07) Cardiac Current Density Distribution by Electrical Pulses from TASER Devices, Panescu D, Kroll MW, McDaniel W, Stratbucker RA., Conf Proc IEEE Eng Med Biol Soc. 2006;1(1):6305-6307.
Conclusions: TASER ECDs deliver electrical pulses that can temporarily incapacitate subjects. The goal of this paper is to analyze the distribution of TASER currents in the heart and understand their chances of triggering cardiac arrhythmias. The models analyzed herein describe strength-duration thresholds for myocyte excitation and ventricular fibrillation induction. Finite element modelling is used to compute current density in the heart for worst-case TASER electrode placement. The model predicts a maximum TASER current density of 0.27 mA/cm2 in the heart. It is conclude that the numerically simulated TASER current density in the heart is about half the threshold for myocytes excitation and more than 500 times lower than the threshold required for inducing ventricular fibrillation. Showing a substantial cardiac safety margin, TASER devices do not generate currents in the heart that are high enough to excite myocytes or trigger VF.
(09/19/07) Finite Element Modeling of Electric Field Effects of TASER Devices on Nerve and Muscle. Panescu D, Efimov IR, Kroll MW, Sweeney JD. Conf Proc IEEE Eng Med Biol Soc. 2006;1(1):1277-1279.
Conclusions: TASER ECDs deliver electrical pulses that can temporarily incapacitate subjects. The goal of this paper is to analyze the distribution of currents in muscle layers and understand the electro-muscular incapacitation safety and efficacy of TASER ECDs. The analyses describe skeletal muscle and motor nerve activation, cell electroporation and current and electric field distributions through skin, fat and muscle layers, under worst-case assumptions for TASER electrode penetration and separation. For the muscle layer, the analysis predicts worst-case current-density and field-strength values of 94 mA/cm2 and 47 V/cm. Both values are higher than thresholds required for neuromuscular activation but significantly lower than levels needed for permanent cellular electroporation or tissue damage. The results indicate that TASER ECDs are safe and effective in producing temporary subject incapacitation.
(08/28/07) Can the Direct Cardiac Effects of the Electric Pulses Generated by the TASER X26 Cause Immediate or Delayed Sudden Cardiac Arrest in Normal Adults? Raymond E. Ideker, MD, PhD, and Derek J. Dosdall, PhD. Am J Forensic Med Pathol 1 Sep 2007 28(3): p. 195.
Conclusion: It is highly unlikely that the TASER X26 can cause ventricular fibrillation either instantly or minutes to hours after its use through direct cardiac effects of the electric field generated by the TASER.
More medical studies and TASER use studies are in the works.

by Elan Moon (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 13 comments) on Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 9:14:22 AM

re. 'True Blue American" [Neofascist NeoCon] Elan Moon "Since Liberal Weenies only read Liberal Weenie websites"

That's because all the republicanazi sites like FreeRepublic.com populated exclusively by posters like yourself Elan Moon, are suffering from a Right Wing Authoritarian [RWA] Personality Disorder. Unlike progressive sites like OpEd that does not keep those such as yourself suffering from a RWA personality disorder from making repeated fallacious ad hominem 'dittohead' style attacks on liberals, FreeRepublic.com will kick out or ban anyone they perceive as making any sort of post that conflicts with their fascist right wing dogma.

Unlike the more open policies at progressive sites like OpEd, what makes all the right wing authoritarian [RWA] personalities so afraid and scared of differing opinions over there at FreeRepublic.como you ask?

RWA personalities like yourself Elan Moon have been damaged from the process of their socialization that brought them up with a belief that human beings are dangerous,and inherently evil. If familiar with Helenistic history, it's akin to 'Platonic thought' and Plato's philosophy of life.

According to RWA thought, the only solution to any problem is to establish a brutally punitive right wing government ruled over by a kind of dictatorial system, where firm rules are established. The role of government is to ruthlessly enforce the rules, thus constraining human evil. In religious cultures like here in the US, Jesus Christ is then a proxy for this brutal dictatorship because Classic Christianity is a form of Right Wing Authoritarianism (RWA) and Historical Christianity is a classic example of RWA thought.

re. 'True Blue American" [Neofascist NeoCon] Elan Moon "If liberals would grow up and get jobs they could become Republicans"

So what is it within you Elan that makes an RWA such as yourself so afraid you feel you have to make repeated fallacious posts verbally attacking liberals at a liberal web site?

What scares the RWA Personality? Freedom. Free speech. Free thoughts. Free people. Why? RWA personalities making up the right wing ironically feel insecure in an uncertain universe. This of course why the RWA Aggressive feels some inate need to have easy access to an assault rifle so they can mow down 100s nearby. Fearful from being externally directed, and eternally insecure, the RWA Bully craves order and simplicity, and will impose it where authoritarian order should never be.

The RWA personality disorder makes them never feels 'safe' in their insecure world. They are followers, not because of a desire for self-advancement, but because it can satisfy their passion for self-renunciation. Never underestimate the potential danger of this RWA true believer personality! They can easily be molded into fanatics who will gladly work and die for their holy cause. It is a substitute for their lost faith in themselves and offers them as a substitute for individual hope.

Genuine conservatives of old however are skeptical of over-concentrated power in religious, private and government hands... but they are few and far between in the current GOP NeoCon climate. Thanks to Buckley, Reagan, Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell, most so-called "conservatives" are really nothing of the kind. RWA Bullies are theocrats and pseudo-libertarian Social Darwinists or even fascists who embrace authority and power over the individual.

RWA Personalities has a reverence for authority that makes them believe whatever their superiors tell them to believe. Their fear and insecurity make them shun the unknown and prevents them from questioning tradition or thinking in new ways. This is about the only remaining conservative trait they maintain.

Dissent threatens the RWA Bully Personality of its fragile sense of security. RWA Bullies demand that everyone believes whatever they believe, even if that belief changes at the whim of their superiors -- because. Well just because! And don't ask questions!

Right wing RWA Personality has a reverence for authority that makes them believe whatever their superiors tell them to believe. Their fear and insecurity make them shun the unknown and prevents them from questioning tradition or thinking in new ways. This about the only remaining conservative trait they maintain.

RWA Bully Personalities demand that everyone think whatever they think but sadly these ironically frightened insecure child like personas don't think. They listen and obey. Free thinking threatens the RWA Personality. It weakens their precarious hold on their make-believe world.

RWA personalities cling to the familiar and fears the unknown to a large degree. What makes the RWA Personality so different? It's their unwillingness to face their fears and strike out into the wider world.

The RWA Personality finds it difficult to come up with a new idea. Their fear of change makes it hard for them to develop a new medical cure, discover new territory, or envision a new approach to anything. In fact, the RWA Bully reflexively opposes anything new. They dislike education and they loath science. New information and the uncertainty fostered by the free flow of fresh thinking undermine their sense of stability. They are still in denial about evolution!

Education may lead to progress and new ideas. Science uncovers new facts. So the RWA Personality fears new learning and research. Progress threatens their precious predictable status quo of the RWA personality. believe superstitions and embrace propaganda. They ignore information that challenges their prejudices and preconceptions. Hence the RWA personality disorder lacks judgment and eschew conception.

While aggressively beating their chests in Macho bravado, RWA Personalities ironically care about their feelings more like women, rather than being concerned in the least with facts. Facts are only for the RWA Personality to support rigid right wing beliefs, or else the facts must be wrong. Those who present facts to the RWA Bully which contradict their right wing dogma must be evil.

RWA Personalities believe in absurd contradictions, impervious to logic or education. They flock to to cults of personality. When in groups, the RWA personalities adopt most cult traits forgoing individuality for the dependent thinking of their RWA groups. They mimick most all the characteristics of more well known cults.

While aggressively beating their chests in Macho bravado, RWA Personalities ironically care about their feelings more like women, rather than being concerned in the least with facts. Facts are only for the RWA Personality to support rigid right wing beliefs, or else the facts must be wrong. Those who present facts to the RWA Bully which contradict their right wing dogma must be evil.

RWA Personalities believe in absurd contradictions, impervious to logic or education. They flock to to cults of personality. When in groups, the RWA personalities adopt most cult traits forgoing individuality for the dependent thinking of their RWA groups. They mimick most all the characteristics of more well known cults.

RWA Personalities cling to known "misleaders" like Reagan, Bush and Bush II, deifying the undeserving. Meanwhile they hate champions of social progress. The RWA submissives flock to propagandists by the droves like "Rush" Limbaugh, and eagerly participate in their own brain washing. They accept as religious doctrine that the corrupt, inept Reagan -- who had 140 criminals in his White House, blocked research and education on AIDS, and supported death squads who killed Nuns and terrorists who killed 240 US Marines -- was moral, but of course Bill and Hillary Clinton are evil incarnate to them.

RWA Personalities support idiotic, even fatal policies because they place nonsense over knowledge. They believe using condoms increases the chance of pregnancy and STDs. They think racism is OK, but pointing out racism is "playing the race card." Poor white male RWA Personalities blame poor non-whites and non-males for the injustices rich white males commit.

The RWA Personality supports the policies which comprise class warfare, but whine when anyone demonstrates the injustice of robbing the needy to enrich the greedy. Poor and working class RWA Personalities believe increasing their taxes makes them richer, while Enron and Bill Gates get huge tax cuts.

The RWA Personality supports theocracy and fascism to a level even craving a unified authority over their lives and even their afterlives! They support censorship. They want to impose their religious views on everyone.

The RWA Persona will punish anyone who strays from the fold. They brutally suppress anyone who questions authority, and they always obey abusive controllers. The RWA Personality is afraid of their own freedom. They are even more afraid of yours if a free independent thinker. Which is why anyone that's even a centrist is banned from making posts at an RWA site like FreeRepublic.com

What scares RWA Personalities like Elan Moon most down to their NeoFascist, NeoCon, NeoNazi Boots? Essays in comments like this from people like me that confront their insecure little world, and people like you who read and sincerely comprehend the message I'm trying to get across: The Right Wing Authoritarian [RWA] is more than a personality type - it's a personality disorder!

by Adnihilo (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 74 comments) on Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 11:45:16 AM

Tasers must be used as a last resort. The fact that police feel free to use tasers because they won't kill you and are using them more and more frequently leads to a slippery slope. If police get use to using these weapons with impunity, what's going to stop them when from using disabiliting weapons like microwave and sound-piercing weapons on protesters?

During the 60's it was fire hoses and batons. Today it's tasers.

by Mr M (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 66 diaries, 2845 comments [654 recommended, 27 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 11:54:31 AM

Americans have been undergoing a transformation from the 'outside' --  the corporate/state demands that IT "tells" them how to think and act; all the while tricking them with gross financial extortions and outright repealing of individuals previously guaranteed "Rights", growing proportionately in Authoritarian stature.  This "state" of affairs will only continue until a boiling point is reached, and the "people" say, NO MORE!

I think The People will at some point be the ones who say to the criminal "authorities", GET DOWN ON YOUR FACE!  YOU ARE GOING TO JAIL, BECAUSE YOU WOULD NOT DO WHAT WE ASKED!   THE PEOPLE WILL TAKE CONTROL OF THE SITUATION, BECAUSE THEY ARE IN THE RIGHT!

I say this, because it is apparent on such a wide scale that there are NO Righteous Authorities we should look to for redress and protection.  WE DON'T NEED NONE OF "THAT" KIND OF PROTECTION!

Might does not make Right, when it has clearly gone wrong, and no longer serves the interests of the people who gave it the power in the first place.  I think JUSTICE shall be served to those who need it the most. 

by boomerang (0 articles, 7 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 556 comments [215 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 9:15:06 AM

http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/dec07/5731

 

EDITOR'S NOTE:

The entire article - that was previously posted here - has been removed for the purpose of brevity and respect of copyright laws. The attribution link is sufficient, should anyone wish to follow the link and read the full article to refute or respond to the commentor's hypothesis. 

Posting of full articles in the comment section are not necessary and may, even with proper attribution, infringe upon copyrights. It also makes comments dauntingly long and difficult to read.

 

by Elan Moon (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 13 comments) on Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 9:21:40 AM

Not a chance here.

by Elan Moon (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 13 comments) on Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 9:30:20 AM

Amnesty International's "research" is comprised of adding up newspaper articles about Taser use. The first stories scream "Taser Death" and months later barely mention cocaine intoxication death.

AI has never subtracted from their count of Taser Death when presented with facts.

If liberals would grow up and get jobs they could become Republicans.

by Elan Moon (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 13 comments) on Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 9:38:04 AM

Whatever happened to pepper spray, police batons, and 'stun' guns?

Seems to me that the article is kinda questioning the prominent use of the taser and what prompts its overusage?  I thought the taser was supposed to be used in situations that required the use of deadly force and not in a situation where an officer wants to utilize it in order to enforce routine compliance... so, if that's the case -it should only be used in a situation where an officer would only otherwise pull his firearm and not simply because somebody called him a 'dick'.  Unfortunately, there's a lot of bullies who heed the call to join the squad, get a shiney badge along with all the cool toys, and play cops for real when they're no better than the crooks they're supposed to be getting off the streets.  Given a bad day, those types can pull someone over with deadly force already on their minds...

or they could take the time to sign up at OEN and make a total ass of themselves in all of six comments on one article that has them beaten beyond reply!

Man, I feel sorry for the guy you pull over tonight, Officer Moon...

by C.Bid (0 articles, 7 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 739 comments [2 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 12:13:49 PM

     Mr. Moon Sir, (however, that is not what I'm thinking. My mom taught me, if you can't say something nice....)

     I don't understand you. Your tone hurts, I cannot find any empathy, your context is brutal, bereft of decency, filled with anger, closed to any possibility of meaningful debate, you don't seem to be 'teacher' material, and now I finally have an idea who the character George C. Scott was depicting in Kubricks Dr. Strangelove was based on.

     Now that I have allowed myself this sad dip into the neighborhood of smallness, I apologize for my tone with you. 

     If you think after all this we have anything to offer each other, you can click and send. If not, chalk it up to whatever you want to. As you were. 

     peace.

     PS..C. Bid...you have a way of causing me to grin.....mikel

by mikel paul (14 articles, 1 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 570 comments [13 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 6:29:27 PM

Fools act Foolish -- there is no time to waste...and you're wasted!

by boomerang (0 articles, 7 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 556 comments [215 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 10:48:17 AM

I was outragged when I began seeing the misuse of Tasers. They should be banned or criminal prosecution for those who misuse them. We are becoming a police state and most Americans are clueless or just plain apathetic to oppose these abuses and stand up for personal rights and the US Constitution. Nothing will change until Americans begin a true revolution. This government tyranny needs to be stopped.

If you haven't already, listen to Naomi Wolf on Youtube, "The End of America".

by Rick Theile (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 50 comments [1 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 12:25:35 PM

Their frequent use betrays a lack of discipline on the officer's part and should call into question their judgement and whether or not they are a threat to society themselves... the use of such a device should be equated to the justification of drawing a firearm and discharging it.

How many times do you think a nine year old child or pregnant woman necessitiates the use of 'deadly' force? 

by C.Bid (0 articles, 7 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 739 comments [2 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 12:58:03 PM

In 1946 in Russia when my father was studying in the boys- only school right after the war the school was blockaded and attacked by the gang of teenagers, homeless primarily. It was a battle for food because in school the govt distributed food for students only and the children of the street were up to themselves in many cases and desperate. Both sides had knives, tubes and other handmade weaapons. There could be also guns. The fight lasted for hours and paramilitary militia unit was dispatched to separate the kids because the teachers were helpless and in danger. The people in the unit were former WWII soldiers, very tough and with full gear. There were no tazers or anaything and NO ONE would complain if they shoot whoever. But acccording to my father there were no casulaties except from the fight. The regiment shot in the air, snatched several most violent ones and brought in the ER with them. The infiltration of the ER and tough but restrained police presence stopped the violence.

Why did the soldiers do it that way? Because they knew who those kids were, why the fight took place and they also knew that that was their kids also (I mean as kids) and that taking lives of the kids was a crime. They knew what they could do and what they were expected to do. They were confident and disciplined. And they were also respected highly by the people and kids themselves as the heroes of the war.

If every policeman is told that any kid on the street is his kid maybe that would be a start.

by Mark Sashine (72 articles, 19 quicklinks, 269 diaries, 4101 comments [130 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 12:58:54 PM

Quote:

You can be sure that the critics will say that there aren’t enough of these studies, or they aren’t independent, or whatever else they can dream up.

End quote

That's because the studies aren't independent - no dreaming necessary.

How can a Department of Justice study be cited as independent when the funds to buy Tasers frequently come from DOJ grants earmarked for such purposes? Since when did the top law enforcement agency become "independent" of local law enforcement interests?

Of the remaining ten studies cited, one included Ted Chan, who has long been on the payroll of the San Diego police force as their "expert witness" when SDPD is defending against its frequent wrongful death suits. Another was authored by R.A, Stratbucker, who was medical director of Taser International and continues to serve as a paid consultant.

Six of the remaining eight studies were led by Jeffrey D. Ho, a consultant for Taser Intl. (and certified as a police officer). I've looked at two of those studies and both say they were funded by Taser Intl. It's likely that his other studies are also.

When Palo Alto CA police began pushing for Tasers, Ho came in, presented his studies, and lied about the results. This was captured on video for viewing on YouTube. When asked to explain his lie, Ho had no response - except to try to get the video yanked off YouTube.

Alas, scientists also live in a dollars-and-cents world, where "integrity" has gone the way of the slide-rule. 'And that's the way it is,'. But perhaps this is another  fact of life you can not get used to?

 

by junya (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1 comments) on Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 2:22:59 PM

I would advise to all reasonable people when called 'liberal weenies' to  use the term 'rightwing bloodsuckers' back. What goes around comes around. I am tired of insults, aren't you?

by Mark Sashine (72 articles, 19 quicklinks, 269 diaries, 4101 comments [130 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 5:05:38 PM

Hell let's gas some Jews and Hang some Blacks and really get the party started......

America has become a police state driven by fear and profit agenda's where 10 year old girls are put in handcuffs for a steak knife to cut her steak, where anyone who has the courage to "Just Say No" to what that individual feels is improper treatment by our government officials from the Whitehouse on down, is answered with brute force, intimidation, and arrest so that the legal system can get it's share of the American Pie.

It is time for every American to "Just Say No" to being treated outside the "God given Rights" as described by the Bill of Rights and if peaceful protest by the American people is met with brute force and acts of aggression, then America needs to leave these traitors of the Constitution and Bill of Right face down in a ditch by the side of the road.  And should they be caught no jouror should convict.  Only then will the message be loud and clear.

Thoughout history slave up risings and revoloutions have been needed when the butality of the state, the actions of the state, are so outside what normal people would consider reasonable, that there is no other choice.  We have reached that state.

In short, IF AMERICA DOES NOT GROW SOME BALLS AND STOP THIS IN ITS TRACKS, YOU HAVE DOOMED OUR CHILDREN TO LIVE IN A POLICE STATE THE LIKE THE WORLD HAS NEVER SEEN.

by Michael Morris (20 articles, 0 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 316 comments [4 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 6:03:11 PM

First, people who talk on the phone while driving should be taken out of their cars and Tasered. In the E.U., the fine for using your mobile while driving is around $500. So is the fine for not wearing your seat belt. There is a reason for this, and it's not revenue.

That said, cops have begun using the Taser as a compliance tool, rather than the non-lethal weapon it was intended to be. The Taser should be taken out of service, because cops are not sophisticated enough to handle encounters without escalating them to a take-down situation.

The guy in your video got what he deserved, in my opinion. I have been stopped and ticketed at least 100 times, and never did the situation escalate to something like this. Show a little courtesy, and the cops will usually give you the same amount of respect.  Signing a ticket is not an admission of guilt, it's a promise to appear in court, or otherwise dispose of the ticket. Fight the cops in court, not on the side of a highway. There are dozens of YouTube videos of people dying in situations like this, and guess what, it isn't the cops.

 

by Joe Duke (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1 comments) on Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 6:39:02 PM

I too believe that misconduct by authorities should be dealt with. In this day and age, it is probably on video tape. Tasers can be equipped with a built in audio/video camera. Go to Taser.com and take a look at the movies shot by the Taser Cam. It's amazing how the stories change when confronted with video evidence.

Tasers are built with accountability in mind. They record the time and duration of activation. Every cartridge spews out small paper tags that identify the cartridge and can indicate where the cartridge was discharged.

Tasers do not kill anybody. Only 1 person ever died from being tasered and they fell and struck their head. The research is available and credible

by Elan Moon (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 13 comments) on Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 6:54:05 PM

      First, people who talk on the phone while driving should be taken out of their cars and Tasered.

     Would you consider first asking why they were on the phone? An emergency maybe? Could it have a possible explanation that you hadn't thought of?

     After that, when you find out they were simply breaking a law and talking to uncle Willie about nothing important, by all means, taser them.

     Curious is all.

by mikel paul (14 articles, 1 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 570 comments [13 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 7:28:27 PM

There are liberals that will lie to make their point and don't care what damage they do. There are as many stories of people being shot when a Taser would have worked as there are stories of dying drug overdose victims going crazy just as they flame out and who you gonna call? The fact that they were tasered has nothing to do with death but lying liberals don't care.

Look at these two story headlines. From the beginning, it has been clear that the man cut himself, fought police, was tasered, went into the house and stabbed and killed himself. The "Liberal" media has bent over backwards to portray this as some kind of "Taser death". Horseshit. There are 20 other stories where the facts are conveniently buried in the "sensational" story.

 

Man dies after police blast him with Taser stun gun during ...
This is London, UK - 1 hour ago
Police said last night that Mr Petty, who has recently been released from a psychiatric unit, wounded himself after being shot with the Taser. ...

Man 'killed himself' after being shot with Taser gun
Independent, UK - 54 minutes ago
Officers used the Taser gun after the knife-wielding man, who was in his thirties, threatened police outside a terraced house. The injured man retreated ...

by Elan Moon (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 13 comments) on Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 7:31:15 PM

I am not a harsh person but here is an advice to you, folks- why won't you go lie in the coffin for a while. Then  you  will at least feel how it is to be dead. And if after that you still  come here and throw up  all that malice and nonsense you just had  demonstrated- go taser yourself. That will serve you right. Do it repeatedly so that you feel your own medicine, you, bloodsuckers. Become that 1%   so that another bloodsucker could use you as a  'negligible stats'. See how it feels.  BTW, this is not the first article on the  tasers on this site  and you   should first  peruse the site before spitting all that venom of yours. 

 

by Mark Sashine (72 articles, 19 quicklinks, 269 diaries, 4101 comments [130 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 7:41:19 PM

EOM

by Elan Moon (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 13 comments) on Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 8:20:21 PM

Tasers are intended to give officers a safer alternative to subdue violent offenders. Merely being uncooperative is not enough cause for an officer to pull out the taser.

by Watching (0 articles, 1 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 313 comments [1 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 at 8:53:09 PM

From becoming violent

TASER SAVES LIVES EVERYDAY

 

by Elan Moon (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 13 comments) on Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 2:01:28 AM

http://www.meridianstar.com/local/local_story_020234742.html

The patrolman and the taser

Would tasers have saved lives of two Wiggins police officers?

By Brian Livingston

In testimony given the past week during the capital murder trial of Ronald Husband, an underlying question has been left unasked and unanswered because due to the deaths of two Wiggins police officers, no one is alive who could respond.

But the question now, given the recent guilty verdicts handed down by a Lauderdale County jury, still begs to be asked. Would the officers, 48-year old Odell Fite and Brandon Breland, 23, be alive today if they had been issued tasers? One principle official, although he wasn't at the scene of the struggle to arrest Husband, said he has an answer.

"The taser would've definitely helped," said Wiggins Police Chief Buddy Bell. "It is a fact of the case one of the officers was able to reach his mace. He could've gotten to his taser had he been equipped with one. But who knows for sure."

All the officers of the Wiggins police department now are carrying tasers. Bell said the Board of Aldermen in Wiggins, three months after the shooting on Nov. 27, 2005, approved the addition. Bell said the taser is the best tool ever added to the department.

As for the stigma the taser is responsible for countless deaths, Bell is not convinced there should be one.

"I've had triple heart bypass and I got tased," Bell said. "It doesn't feel good. It's not supposed to. But did it kill me or affect me afterwards? No."

Tasers are hand-held weapons that deliver a jolt of electricity through a pair of wires propelled by compressed air from up to 10.6 metres away. The jolt stuns the target by causing an uncontrollable contraction of the muscle tissue. The target is immobilized and falls to the ground — regardless of pain tolerance or mental focus.

Arizona-based Taser International makes virtually all of the "stun guns" being used today. In fact, Taser is the brand name and the technical term for a stun gun is a conductive energy device, or CED.

Taser International says more than 11,000 law enforcement, correctional and military organizations, in 44 countries, use its devices. Of these agencies, more than 3,500 of them equip all of their patrol officers with Tasers. Since 1998, more than 260,000 Taser brand immobilizers have been sold to law enforcement agencies.

Tasers are supposed to allow police officers to subdue violent individuals without killing them. A police officer can "take down" a threatening suspect without worrying that a stray bullet might kill or injure an innocent bystander.

At approximately $1,500 each, a taser isn't a cheap proposition for many law enforcement departments the size of Wiggins. But the economic leap can produce better results down the line for those departments who've been able to purchase them.

The Ellisville Police Department is about the same size as that in Wiggins. Capt. Billy Ryan said they have 12 full-time officers and three auxiliary patrolmen. Since their Board of Aldermen voted to purchase tasers, Ryan said an entire list of things began to change.

"Every time one of the officers has had to use the taser, it has been effective," said Ryan. "Even if we don't actually shoot someone, the taser has done it's job in making offenders surrender peacefully."

Ryan said the initial cost of the tasers has now been realized in the savings in medical bills to the department.

"Our medical costs of sending officers and suspects to the hospital for injuries received during a physical arrest have gone down dramatically," said Ryan. "The number of confrontations has dropped to almost nothing."

Taser International says there are no drawbacks to the use of tasers. Critics argue that there hasn't been enough research into the safety of stun guns. They point to the deaths since 2001 of more than 50 people in North America after Taser shocks.

"If that number is correct that is unfortunate," Ryan said of the statistics. "But out of those fifty instances, how many more suspects were taken into custody without injury to them or the officer? I would venture to guess that number would be in the thousands if not the tens of thousands in six years."

On Oct. 14, 2007, 40-year-old Robert Dziekanski of Pieszyce, Poland, died at Vancouver International Airport after being shocked with a Taser by police.

Police speculated that he died from a rare condition called excited delirium, though the coroner's office has not concluded the cause of death. Excited delirium is described as an agitated state, when a person experiences an irregular heartbeat and suddenly dies. It can happen to psychiatric patients and people using drugs such as cocaine.

Family members for Fite and Breland said each officer was about 5-7 weighing 170 pounds. Husband is 6-6, and at the time of the incident reportedly weighed more than 300 pounds. The consensus opinion was that if Fite or Breland were able to deploy a taser, Husband might be only facing assault and resisting arrest charges instead of facing the death penalty. And the two officers would be alive today.

by Elan Moon (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 13 comments) on Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 2:05:08 AM

We need a "(citizen's) Freedom Act" that over turns the "(government's) Patriot Act".

by Gallaher (2 articles, 0 quicklinks, 4 diaries, 990 comments [34 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 1:37:31 PM

Tasers do serve a purpose, however the deployment needs work, a lot of work. In past days police officers were hired for their brawn as well as their brain. Today in keeping with gender equality etc. women have been hired as police officers and do not have the brawn that used to go with the job. The way they handled that of course, was to use the great equalizer and just shoot anyone that dared to resist an illegal arrest (remember when you had a right to resist an illegal arrest?). No one resists an illegal arrest today because you will simply be killed, guilty or not. So I guess too many not yet proven guilty people were being shot to death by less than able police officers of both genders and something had to be done, along comes the taser. Now the question is how to properly deploy them? That is the big question and it's quite obvious to me that they are not currently being properly deployed.

by Archie (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1750 comments [110 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Monday, Jan 21, 2008 at 1:38:24 PM