Thank you for making my point.

In equating Hillary Clinton with John McCain and claiming that both are "moderates" you properly identify them as George Bush light and George Bush III respectively. In railing against Obama as a "Liberal" you identify your own position on the right.

That's one thing that I can rely upon from Mark Penn and his acolytes, they talk first and think later.

by John Sanchez Jr. (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 6 diaries, 886 comments) on Sunday, March 30, 2008 at 9:42:19 AM
 

The "Center" of the Democratic Party IS right-wing

And the Progressives are the "moderates" now. This is proven by the voting record in Congress....There is no reason for those who feel betrayed to support a party that is so obviously in the pocket of corporations that they will not vote for anything but what is in the corporate interest. We haven’t left the Party, it has left us.... And left us in the dirt with no apology, either... Progressives have been jettisoned and treated as scum. By Howard Dean of all people, lol... Somehow that makes it seem even more sordid and dirty. 

Just look at Dennis Kucinich: He was blacklisted in MSM to a point where for over 4 months, his name NEVER appeared or was spoken unless the word "UFO" was in the same sentance (..im not kidding lol).... He was kept out of the debates; to the point where court orders were needed to protect NBC's "First Amendment Rights". And NOTHING was said or done about it by the Party.... In fact, the party was a willing participant in this. And then, an obvious shill was heavilly funded and run in Kucinich's primary.... To get rid of him.  That didn't work , btw ;)  ... But not for want of trying. DK won his primary because the people of the 10th Ohio District were smarter than the Democratic Party spin meisters thought.

Why did the Party turn on him? Because was a REAL DEMOCRAT. One who wanted not-for-profit universal healthcare... Much more popular than any phony corporate "centrist" Dem shill wants to admit... Because they are in the pockets of pharm and insurance corps. Because DK dared champion Impeachment. Because he will not compromise on murdering innocent Iraqi's and the continual expanding war for oil. His very existence in Congress could not be tolerated because it proved what a Democrat COULD and SHOULD be doing... By example proving that the Party has been completely corrupted. 

People like Harry Reid are Republicans in everything but title. Reid actually sneered at Kucinich; his anger and hatred was plain in his eyes when discussing DK in the Nevada primary on TV.... Harry Reid supported the Nevada Supreme Court's decision to exclude Kucinich from televised debate. This is why Progressives think the "centrist" wing of the party has been co-opted and pirated by corporate shills who only desire what is good for their masters. The "center" is populated by pols who now are either utterly corrupt, or appeasing cowards who fear for being "necklaced" like Kucinich was.  Either way, we don't want any part of them.

There will be a time when the Party loyalists will lament the loss of the Progressive wing of the Democratic Party: Because it will mean the Dem Party's destruction. But seeing what we have here now, perhaps that is not a bad thing. 

The only thing that maintains the Democratic Party now is the Red vs. Blue tribal warfare phenomena. Most Dems are still stubbornly supporting their candidates just cause they despise the other team... Not because there are any remaining serious differences of policy. Those who can see through the phony rhetoric know that voting record is what matters, not empty calls for "change".  

by Steve Windisch (jibbguy) (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 128 comments) on Sunday, March 30, 2008 at 10:00:37 AM
 

Nope

Goerge Bush is a Neocon Fascist.  He is in no way a moderate. 

McCain is a moderate especially when compared to Bush or Obama.

On the political continuum -- McCain is to the right of center.  CLinton is to the left of center.

by Angie Pratt (15 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 18 comments) on Sunday, March 30, 2008 at 10:01:38 AM
 

It depends on where you stand

Right, left, moderate.  It all depends on where you stand.

If you position yourself where the consensus U.S. opinion was in the 1960's, McCain is on the distant right, Clinton is on the far right and Obama is slightly to the right of center.  That is probably where many europeans would view them to be even today.

The fact is that politicians who even show signs of glancing left are, today, marked as not viable by the MSM and you just don't hear much about them.  Kucinich and Gravel are recent examples of this phenomena. 

by PrMaine (8 articles, 4 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 241 comments) on Monday, March 31, 2008 at 2:56:34 PM
 

Correct!

Some people just don't want to see it as it really is.

by fou (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 88 comments) on Tuesday, April 1, 2008 at 1:30:03 PM
 

My comment was meant to

agree with Angie's.

by fou (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 88 comments) on Tuesday, April 1, 2008 at 1:36:13 PM
 

Consider the political spectrum...

not as a line, but as a circle, or a clock face. The extreme left, or communists start at the bottom, at six o'clock. The spectrum continues clockwise from there until it reaches the extreme right, or nazis, once again at six o'clock. This places the authoritarian extremes cheek by jowl, right next to each other where they belong.

Back to the extreme left, we progress clockwise  through Marxist socialism, then socialism at about seven thirty-five, Democratic Socialist at eight and the center starting with what are called liberals begins at nine o'clock. From there, liberals morph to progressive centrists by ten o'clock, and the moderate center extends from there to ten after the hour. Social conservatives are located at ten after, conservatives at fifteen after and libertarians at twenty after the hour. Ayn Rand objectivists are located at twenty-three past the hour followed by neo-liberals and neo-conservatives at twenty-five after. The fascists are between the neos and the nazis, and we are at thirty past, once again.

Layer upon that an authoritarian spectrum extending from twenty-five after clockwise through forty minutes past the hour; and a corporatist spectrum extending from five minutes to the hour to thirty five past the hour.

Now you have a backboard upon which you may play Pin the Tail on the Donkey, or Elephant, whichever you prefer. If I'm wearing the sheer blindfold, McCain's butt ends up at eighteen minutes after, and moving right with every Christianist endorsement he collects. Hillary is a little harder to pin down, or up since she has no real philosophy other than a lust for collecting political pelts. However, with her solid DLC connections, she can safely be pinned to the eight minutes after the hour spot. I would place Barack Obama at about five minutes to the hour.

Now you may howl about my placements until the cows come home or turn enough super delegates, but these are my perceptions, and I am unlikely to change them to accomodate other opinions. You may, however, regale me with tales of how your darts landed.

by John Sanchez Jr. (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 6 diaries, 886 comments) on Sunday, March 30, 2008 at 11:07:11 AM
 

Excellent article

I consider myself a liberal, and am proud of the label.

BUT, I also consider myself a realist. And that's what fanatics are not.

They love to run around looking at things myopically -- it gives them satisfaction. It gives them a sense that they are special, the only holders of the Truth. The true believers. But there are so many true believers who adhere to so many different Truths -- and that is what has gotten the world into mess after mess.

You've written an excellent analysis of things.

by fou (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 88 comments) on Tuesday, April 1, 2008 at 1:41:27 PM