To all of you Clinton and Obama supporters:will someone tell me why I should vote for either?I listen to their “stump speeches”, their oratory, their campaign rhetoric, but have yet to hear either address the issues that I hold important.
Where does your candidate stand on:
The Iraq War:It’s not important to me that Obama can say he never supported the war or that Clinton voted for the resolution authorizing force against Iraq.It is important to me that neither has made a stand to bring an end to the occupation, be it opposition to funding or a firm Senate stand against its progress.
Roe v Wade:It’s not important to me whether their individual beliefs are pro-life or pro-choice.It is important to me that they have a commitment to uphold a woman’s right to choose.
Healthcare:single payer healthcare is commonly accepted as the sole means of providing healthcare to all Americans, yet neither are willing to step on insurance company toes to accomplish that.
Fair Trade:Neither has addressed the issue of NAFTA or fair trade.
Unemployment:Where do they stand on the exportation of American jobs, by American corporations to foreign nations at the expense of the now-floundering American economy.
Guest Worker Programs:Yes/No and why.
In the 2008 California Primary, there were nearly a quarter million Democratic votes cast for candidates other than Clinton or Obama – votes for Dodd, Kucinich, Gravel, or Biden.250,000 is a mere pittance when compared to the 15+ million cast for the front runners, but it must be recognized that 250,000 voters literally said No to both the front runners.
Someone convince these people why they should follow the party lead and cast their November ballot for one of these two.A vote against the Republicans doesn’t count.
I've never claimed to have all of the answers, but refuse to sacrifice my right to ask all of the questions and expect answers in return. Faith and Confidence are at a low and continue to decline. Thinking ex-pat.
My gut feeling about Obama is that he is self-censoring. He's not willing to put himself in any position that could come back and bite him. With that, he cannot make a firm stand on any important issue. He allows himself a lot of fudge-factor.
by
Angelo (5 articles, 0 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 176 comments)
on Sunday, February 10, 2008 at 2:25:27 PM
Not rational, maybe, but real - It's time to try NEW
The Obama bio of marginal beginnings and intellectual prowess seems to transcend his "mixed" heritage. Most likely people believe he has sorted it out and will come up with answers.
"Baggage" is the word which sticks to Hillary Clinton, and when she attempts to show her ability to come to grips with the troubles of these times, many people consider her opportunistic.
Rationale is not a heavy consideration. Hope, Change and Audacity get the nod. Maybe it's messianic (a term we should put to rest after 8 years) but it's involved.
Two Senators vying against each other to take on another one from the other side of the aisle, definitely the OLD.
by
Margaret Bassett (25 articles, 1684 quicklinks, 29 diaries, 1015 comments)
on Sunday, February 10, 2008 at 11:57:09 AM
All I hear are lies coming out of HRC's mouth and campaign
if readers want to learn more about the substance Obama brings, see below:
On Legislative Experience:
Senator Clinton, who has served only one full term (6yrs.), and another year campaigning, has managed to author and pass into law, (20) TWENTY pieces of legislation in her first six years.
In all, since he entered the U.S. Senate in 2004, Senator Obama has written 890 bills and co-sponsored another 1096. Over a THOUSAND folks!
These bills can be found on the website of the Library of Congress (www.thomas.loc.gov), but to save you trouble, I'll post them here for you.
CLINTON: 1. Establish the Kate Mullany National Historic Site. 2. Support the goals and ideals of Better Hearing and Speech Month. 3. Recognize the Ellis IslandMedal of Honor. 4. Name courthouse after Thurgood Marshall. 5. Name courthouse after James L. Watson. 6. Name post office after Jonn A. O'Shea. 7. Designate Aug. 7, 2003, as National Purple Heart Recognition Day. 8. Support the goals and ideals of National Purple Heart Recognition Day. 9. Honor the life and legacy of Alexander Hamilton on the bicentennial of his death. 10. Congratulate the Syracuse Univ. Orange Men's Lacrosse Team on winning the championship. 11. Congratulate the Le Moyne College Dolphins Men's Lacrosse Team on winning the championship. 12. Establish the 225th Anniversary of the American Revolution Commemorative Program. 13. Name post office after Sergeant Riayan A. Tejeda. 14. Honor Shirley Chisholm for her service to the nation and express condolences on her death. 15. Honor John J. Downing, Brian Fahey, and Harry Ford, firefighters who lost their lives on duty. Only five of Clinton's bills are, more substantive. 16. Extend period of unemployment assistance to victims of 9/11. 17. Pay for city projects in response to 9/11 18. Assist landmine victims in other countries. 19. Assist family caregivers in accessing affordable respite care. 20. Designate part of the National Forest System in Puerto Rico as protected in the wilderness preservation system.
OBAMA: Now, I would post those of Obama's, but the list is too substantive, so I'll mainly categorize. During the first years of his elected service he sponsored over 820 bills. He introduced: 233 regarding healthcare reform, 125 on poverty and public assistance, 112 crime fighting bills, 97 economic bills, 60 human rights and anti-discrimination bills, 21 ethics reform bills, 15 gun control, 6 veterans affairs and many others.
His first year in the U.S. Senate, he authored 152 bills and co-sponsored another 427. These included **the Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006 (became law), **The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act, (became law), **The Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act, passed the Senate, **The 2007 Government Ethics Bill, (became law), **The Protection Against Excessive Executive Compensation Bill, (In committee), and many more.
An impressive, substantive record, for someone who supposedly has no record or experience. . . .
Go Obama 2008!
by
D P (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1 comments)
on Sunday, February 10, 2008 at 12:17:55 PM
I'm really, really looking for New. So far, he hasn't shown me New in terms of platform. He's vibrant. He's energetic. He's a wonderful speaker. So was Reagan.
by
Angelo (5 articles, 0 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 176 comments)
on Sunday, February 10, 2008 at 2:28:37 PM
Obama has the right plan for each of your questions.
The Iraq War: Obama was the first of all of the candidates to write and introduce legislation callingfor a timeline for withdrawal from Iraq. You can read his bill here http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:s.433:
Roe v Wade: Obama was given a pro life voting record rating of 100% by Planned Parenthood. (so was Hillary).
Healthcare: Neither candidate has a single payer plan. Both plans will have the government subsidize health insurance. The only difference is that Clinton will make people pay a penalty fine if they are not insured.
Fair Trade: Obama wants to replace NAFTA and the others with new versions that require all country to meet certain standards for the environment and worker's rights before we create trade agreements with them.
Unemployment: Obama wants to give corporations tax penalties if they outsource jobs overseas.
Guest Worker Programs: Obama supports it because it is easier to control workers if we allow them to come here temporarily, documented, as part of a program, than their only only is to come her undocumented and in secret.
by
D B (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1 comments)
on Sunday, February 10, 2008 at 12:55:03 PM
I appreciate your response. How does Sen Obama reconcile "worker rights" in outsourcing jobs with Guest Worker Program, which basically eliminates the rights of the workers; if they do not meet the employer's expectations, they're not merely fired, they're deported. It's damned close to slavery.
Has there been any consideration of how these "guests" are returned home after their term is expired? And who's responsibile for that? The employer? the government? the worker??
by
Angelo (5 articles, 0 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 176 comments)
on Sunday, February 10, 2008 at 2:17:33 PM
Let's think about this. Added tax penalties for corporations outsourcing jobs merely means an added number on the expense side of the ledger and is easily offset by an increase in price, which you get to pay.
Not an acceptable solution.
by
Angelo (5 articles, 0 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 176 comments)
on Sunday, February 10, 2008 at 5:44:08 PM
There are not enough differences between their views to override the number one difference: Obama will bring out more pro-voters than Hillary, Hillary will bring out more anti-voters than Obama. It's very likely that we'll either have Obama or, with Hillary as the candidate, McCain as President. Just as a political calculation, it's likely that support for Hillary means trading a few months of feel-good before the election for four years of disaster.
by
Jim Arnold (12 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 80 comments)
on Sunday, February 10, 2008 at 1:25:22 PM
Hillary has fought for working families when it wasn't popular to care. She fought for Healthcare in the 1990's before the Country was ready - she fought for it in the Newt Gingrich's Republican Congress. In my mind this makes her more Progressive than Mr. Obama because she was willing to take this risk to help people knowing that she might lose, which of course she did. You can't keep her down - she has the proven ability to sustain whatever the Republicans will try to do in the General election. As a long-time Feminist I know she has supported Womens Rights issues and understands this Country's desperate need for childcare to enable working families to go to work and feel that their children will be safe instead of being latch-key kids. Thank You.
by
Sharon (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 5 diaries, 33 comments)
on Sunday, February 10, 2008 at 1:43:07 PM
In terms of reconciling worker rights and guest workers potentially being in a slave like position, obviously there will need to be checks and balances written in to protect people adequately, but this is also within a bigger picture where I feel people are generally becoming 'wage slaves'. In large part that has been driven by policies that have disproportionately advantaged the very rich, and that place economy, profit margins and growth over people. Such a model is also incompatible with the climate challenges ahead, where we need to focus more on sustainability within one's own boarders, creating jobs related to sustainability within one's own boarders and also allowing people to spend adequate time with their children.
If we consider the holistic picture, the current imbalance is due - I believe to lobbyists and corporations having brought too much influence over politicians. The grassroots nature of Obama's campaign - which has proven itself to be tremendously successful when others said there was no other way but the 'usual' way to get funding - is important because it ensures Obama is obligated to the American people first and foremost. It also shows that Obama is able to turn noble principal into successful outcomes.
What I also like about Obama is that his upbringing has enabled him to have some outside perspective looking on the States - and this is sorely needed. While Bush and Clinton both hold the position that other countries must meet pre-conditions before talking with them (i.e. no negotiation), Obama quite rightly identifies this as not a show of strength but rather a show of arrogance. That hits the nail on the head.
The issues ahead are not simple to deal with - very complex and not everyone is going to be happy about everything - but in Obama I see someone who has identified core underlying problems in the bigger picture and calls them for what they are, weighs them and then comes up with pragmatic solutions. No more head in the sand stuff and then wondering why you end up with a sunburnt butt.
Overall, however, the collective nature of the movement that Obama has created gives me considerable confidence that the people's voice and concerns will be taken into account when developing policies to fit the environment - hence the bottom up approach. With Clinton, I simply get a sense that everything would be top down and if some of her comments and actions to date, during this campaign, are anything to go by - she seems out of touch with the people and has not demonstrated good judgment.
by
Jo Kleeb (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 3 comments)
on Sunday, February 10, 2008 at 5:36:28 PM
We simply MUST WIN this election, therefore it's vital to nominate the most electable candidate. Hillary has long-established negatives due largely to a 24/7, sixteen year hate-fest which has created a mindless hatred against anyone named Clinton. Have you ever tried to rebut mindless hatred? It's impossible.
On the other hand, the arguments against Obama are weak and easily rebutted, unless you believe the allegations that he is a "Black Mulim" will gain traction.
The minutia of their platforms are largely irrelevant because the issue of sheer ELECTABILITY supersede their platforms at this stage.
Regards,
Michael
by
Lover of Truth (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 24 comments)
on Sunday, February 10, 2008 at 6:10:24 PM
They are both brilliant and capable and politically savvy. Though I believe that Clinton has the edge on Obama for improving our foreign relations more quickly. I do not buy into the level of purported hatred for Hillary Clinton that once may have existed. Most Americans are onto the Republican lies and Swiftboat-type conniving now. It took a few years to knock the trust out of many people. It brought that home to me when a local man who has always been an avid Republican and a strong Bush supporter just told me that he would have liked Edwards but will be glad if Hillary Clinton is elected. I was shocked. People are angry and fearful. Recession if not outright Depression is on people's minds. Only the truly brain-washed minority, though sizable, would vote for a Republican president at this juncture.
by
Pat Williams (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 82 comments)
on Monday, February 11, 2008 at 12:40:09 AM
It appears that the gist of these comments is more a need to rid the White House of a Republican than it is a real preference between the two Democratic nominees. Well, in 2006 we through the bums out of Congress. There was dancing in the streets. It didn't take long to realize that the Pelosi/Reid Congress consisted of a spineless group unwilling to stand up for any of the issues that put them in power. When the approval rating of Congress is less than that of Bush, we have a problem.
Neither of these aspirants to the White House took a lead in Congress to hire a surgeon and implant a spine. Neither showed the leadership that they now firmly vow they have, "beginning on day one". Well, where has it been the last fifteen months? Will it emerge in the next ten months?
Thanks for the comments.
by
Angelo (5 articles, 0 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 176 comments)
on Monday, February 11, 2008 at 8:28:22 AM
I appreciate the well thought out comments. At the top the author asked what to do. Well, I think his desires indicated that Dennis K was the answer. Unfortunately we didn't rally enough support to keep him in the race. What we must do is keep the pressure on the party to get behind the issues that Dennis stood (stands) for. Personally, I can't see the the eloquence of Obama. His speaking style and lack of substance grate on me. Clinton has been a force for change before - if she'll do it again - who knows.
by
leequist (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 12 comments)
on Monday, February 11, 2008 at 7:37:38 PM
A media source I can back. Finally someone who is asking an itelligent question instead of going with the mainstream media's take. I am a Hillary supporter. Why do I think you should pick her? I can only tell you why I am. Experience. In all honesty I was not a Bill Clinton fan when he was in office. I picked up and read Hillary's book in 2004 and since then I have supported her 100%. I've contributed to her campaign and I have held meetings in my town for her. I do want someone who know what they are doing. I want the country ready on day one. I believe she is what the country needs. In my opinion when she voted for the war in Iraq she was voting her gut. How many of us in that same situation would have done likewise? Probably the majority. Obama talks about how he voted against the war, yet from what I've read, he was not even in the Senate at the time. Here is a link that show's when he first entered the Senate http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=BS030017 it also shows that he was not there for that vote.
I find myself frustrated at the mainstream media and how they are so biased against Hillary Clinton. Not only that they have elevated Obama to god-like status. He can do no wrong. I myself think he is too good to be true. He has not be involved enough on the Senate level to know how things are done. He says he will go in and get this and this and this done, like he is the only one with any say-so. You will have to work with the Senate and House. You will have to make compromise. You will have to be strong. I liek the comment I read about how he has not really made a stand on something to the point of it being controversial. I think he will say and do what someone else wants because he really doesn't know what he wants. I don't believe he has a backbone strong enough to put up with the Republican nominee let alone the House and Congress.
I can be honest and say I do not know much about Obama. I have not read his book, I do not listen to his interviews. I have watched the last several debates so I know where he stands. I cannot be one of the Democrats who will be happy with either Hillary or Obama. My devotion lies with Hillary. I need experience. I need someone who knows the way things are run. I need someone who has made mistakes and learned from them. I don't want someone who the media is pushing. I don't need someone who is portrayed as perfect. I don't want someone who says what he thinks people want him to say. Give me Hillary in 08.
by
Pam Wells (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 6 comments)
on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 at 12:03:05 PM
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