I recently published an article, "This, Pat Robertson, is How a Nation Gets Punished for Its Sins" (here on opednews, and at http://www.nonesoblind.org/blog/?p=606), which declared that we can see how America is being "punished" for its "sin" of entrusting power to the evil forces that have ruled this country for the past six years. It proposed that such sins as these tend to bring unpleasant consequences down on a nation, not through the punitive strikes of a wrathful God but through the natural workings of the order in the human system.
That piece prompted a comment from a reader, Todd Waymon, that read in part: "I think we are not punished FOR our sins, but BY our sins." That in turn stimulated me to write a mini-essay in reply, which I would like to share here --in somewhat polished form-- as an entry on its own.
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I can't tell, Todd, whether, when you say "I think we are not punished FOR our sins, but BY our sins," you are using other words to say the same thing as I was --when I described a kind of "natural consequences"-- or if you're asserting something different.
Your way of putting it suggests it was something different. What you seem to be saying is something like this: "It is not that our sins bring down consequences, you may be saying, but that the very state of being sinful is a punishing state."
Sort of the mirror image of the idea that "Virtue is its own reward." Sin is its own punishment, you seem to be saying.
That would indeed be a different way of conceiving how it is that evil-doers do not just get away with their sins, how it is that "Crime does not pay."
Here are some thoughts of mine about such questions regarding moral order of the world.
I think that it is AT LEAST true that the world works in ways that inflict punishments FOR sins-- or at least it OFTEN does. But the world's orderliness in this respect is very far from complete. Frequently, the world does not fall in upon those who do bad things; frequently, people do get to hold onto their ill-gotten gains. Nonetheless sin does very often bring about punishing consequences.
And I think it there is a general truth, too, about the sinfulness not really being such a good trip.
This idea, incidentally, is at the very foundation of Western philosophy. Look at the two major founders of the philosophical tradition in our civilization.
One might say that REPUBLIC --by Plato, of whom it is said that philsophy began with him and everything thereafter is a kind of commentary on him-- is about the notion that the just man is the happy man, even if from the outside it might look different.
And one might say that the NICHOMACHEAN ETHICS by Aristotle --the thinker who became The Philosopher to virtually the whole of Christendom for a couple of centuries-- is about the idea that the source of happiness is virtue.
I myself think that the arguments put forward by both these philosophers to establish these ideas are extremely flawed. (And that's why I felt some discomfort teaching these texts, a few years ago, to smart young 17 year-olds.) But despite the bogus logic and stacked decks and circular thinking I found in those texts, I nonetheless believe that these philosophers were onto something true: I do believe that virtue TENDS TO BE its own reward, and that sin or evil TENDS TO BE its own punishment.
But once again, I believe that the moral order of the universe --while it exists, is important for us to acknowledge and serve-- is very imperfectly developed. (In this context, I recommend Woody Allen's greatest film, CRIMES AND MISDEMEANORS, where the question of "getting away" with sin --escaping both being punished FOR and BY one's crimes and misdemeanors-- is at the heart of the drama.)
I think that it's true that our deepest fulfillment lies in aligning ourselves with the good, the true, and the beautiful.
Andrew Bard Schmookler's website www.nonesoblind.org is devoted to understanding the roots of America's present moral crisis and the means by which the urgent challenge of this dangerous moment can be met. Dr. Schmookler is also the author of such books as The Parable of the Tribes: The Problem of Power in Social Evolution (SUNY Press) and Debating the Good Society: A Quest to Bridge America's Moral Divide (M.I.T. Press). He also conducts regular talk-radio conversations in both red and blue states.
Everything of this world will pass away. Love(unconditional) created this world and is the only reality. Love doesn't include judgement or justice. Love embraces all things, Love allows all things, Love trusts all things and Love transcends all things. All events outside the consciousness are neutral until we choose our own creation. Each of us, by our choices, creates our personal world. Life is not about physical survival or comfort; if so what point would there be. This world, this life, is a game of illusion. When we choose Love we see that we are in this world but not of this world. The game goes on, the illusion continues as long as there are those who choose to participate without being aware that it is all a dream. To have real peace we must be peaceful. To be Love we must give Love. Love is my only religion; the world is my family.
by
carl (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 129 comments)
on Tuesday, May 8, 2007 at 5:07:18 PM
I would much rather have respect than love. Love is the flipside of hate and both are rather volatile. Respect is what all humans deserve and must learn to give. Unfortunately most of the organizations that preach love of their fellow man(religions mostly) have enough flaws in them to destroy this world many times over. Governments and religions have little respect for others or each other for that matter. Personal beliefs and civic administrators are a necessity of life but they need to be regulated and controlled as they are the most dangerous entities on this planet having caused the vast majority of all deaths and wars.
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Hayesml47 (5 articles, 0 quicklinks, 4 diaries, 502 comments)
on Tuesday, May 8, 2007 at 5:31:02 PM
Interesting reading from my perspective. I would like to bring up a few points. Sin does not occur in a vacuum and often we do not appreciate all of its effects. It not only affects the victim and the perpetrator but it has a profound rippling effect. I had an experience last year that allowed me to understand how this works. Most people operate in what I call confusion. It is a state where people operated with the appearance of luck and the appearance of free will. These are appearances only, as nothing happens by accident or without intelligent logical purpose. There exists a state of consciousness that allows for the proper and direct connection between the acts we commit and the consequences that are promulgated. There is always a direct connection. We however are not permitted to see this relationship. I discovered that there is a simple contract that allows for this altered perception. What we think of as bad or evil serves a constructive purpose. It hinges on what this universe actually is. Our collective perception of reality is not as accurate or concrete as we assume it is. I say “assume” because we have no way of proving that reality is all that it seems. The fallacy is our senses by themselves do not permit us to see what is there. We are biased. I know now that just because everyone sees a rock from a different perspective that does not mean we can logically conclude that the rock is there. I had an experience that opened a marvelous door and now I see great purpose in this suffering. It actually is a good thing. You might think me a monster but I delight in the suffering and pain of others. When one realizes the purpose of this universe then one understands how compassionate that last statement really is.
Since my experience and I will not give away the secret but there is a Holy Grail and it is not what we think it is. Since my experience I have been getting a crash course in Supreme Law and I may be able to answer some of your lingering questions.
My website is rather subversive from the traditional view of the universe and I can see that you may indeed be able to understand what I am talking about.
I can tell you that what I discovered works but very few have been permitted to cross the threshold. Why I say permitted lies at the very heart of the matter
Warm Regards,
Roger Pool
(Roage)
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Roage (7 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 53 comments)
on Tuesday, May 8, 2007 at 6:24:00 PM
You do realize when you say that, then we would not have the problems we are having, if it were really that obvious or easy to recognize. There is a subtle nuance that is easily missed by those not permitted to understand.
Easy Test Question: Why is it a fact that law cannot compel performance?
Roage
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Roage (7 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 53 comments)
on Wednesday, May 9, 2007 at 11:26:00 AM
Dr. Andrew: I was debating whether or not to compact a longish Chapter, on evil, good crime and punishment, from my Theology Book, THE QUEST FOR GNOSIS, currently in translation and editing, and publish it here . Your venture into philosophy at opednews, with which, while I do not entirely agree, does, at least in my mind, hold some grains of interest. Thus in the near future, I shall endeavor to, when my hard news and thrusting at evil ones, has worn its course, try the second chapter I placed out on OPEDNEWS.
By the way, I am happy to see that my Tag BUSHITES, first mentioned in a Blog in early 2002, and always ever since, first as a jest, in a satire on Bush for his biblical nonsence, is catching on. I see it everywhere nowadays.
Write more it is enjoyable, even though I am not in complete agreement with your philosophy. (I will mention where we differ in my article in a few weeks, after my current novel is out the door).
I didn't know someone had used the term "Bushites" before me, but I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one who digs it. I get some objections to it, now and then.
What was the meaning or connotation you had in mind with the term?
For me, it was supposed to have a somewhat biblical overtone, like Amalekites, which helps support my message that at the most fundamental level, this struggle against this regime should be seen as one against the forces of evil, and on behalf of the good.
One last note: if you're interested in having me engage with you on those issues on which, you say, we differ, perhaps you could notify me when your chapter goes public.
by
Andrew Bard Schmookler (314 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 146 comments)
on Tuesday, May 8, 2007 at 9:19:52 PM
One of my MA's is cultural anthro. Post grad work heavy in theology. Picked up Archiac Aramaic, Greek, Hebrew, Catholic School Latin, a great deal of bible study and translation. (Things look a lot different when you do your own translations.) The early Hebrew history; Israelites, Amalikites, Levites, Canaanites, Amorites, Shelahites, Perezites, Zerahites, Hamulites, Issacharites, Zebulites, Nazaarites, Jaheelites, Machaerites, etc., etc., etc.,. If you get a chance look through my articles and go to my blog http://Bagnolosprophetics.blogspot.com.
I started using Bushites or Fascists in my news letters back in 2002, (got a lot of Criticism even from colleagues about use of fascists, but they came around) and still.
As a kid, used to call the other baseball teams in my league in High school, college and pro-ball by the names of the best players; so the team which fielded, J. Miller, were the Millerites, one which best player was Bagwell, were the Bagwellites, likewise they began to call my team the Bagnoloites.
As to my chapter, I shall let you know ASAP I get to it. Check my diaries and articles, you will see the name Bushites generousely sprinkled about, even in some titles I think. I was being sarcastic with Bushites, but complementary to the baseball teams and their stars.
I enjoyed your article. The theology book which takes a back seat to novels, paintings (for art see http://www.Bagnoloart.com) is now at 400,000 words and introduces the discipline of Theoretical Theology. I am the descendant of Duke Bagnolo of Albigension Heresy fame (or infamy). In it I speculate and do a bit of retranslation. I offer logic to the biblical stories and see Dogma as a great barrier to human development. I combine my knowledge of Anthro to theology and strike most Dogma dead in it's tracks. My theology has helped make accurate predictions and sense of religion. I somewhat oppose Organized Religions. But organization and misinterpretation of anything is a natural thing for humans. I reevaluate the role and inefficacy of stories that may be tens of thousands of years old, even older, which through time have lost their original meanings. I try to restore them and show that they were mostly merely morality tales as were many of Jesus parables and stories, not always actual happenings.
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