I'm not impressed with the leading Democratic candidates not voting on this spy bill. Civil Rights aside it clearly shows a certain allegiance to their Corporate masters as this bill also includes immunity for these tele communications industries. Who I suppose actually did or allowed the eaves dropping. Republican McCain at least stood up and was counted as one of the 68 who voted for this spy bill along with his buddy Joe Lieberman.
It marches on. When the majority of Americans finally wake up and realize that it is they who are the target of this endless War on Terror, it will of course be too late. The power is already in place for dissenters to be considered enemy combatants and denied all due process in the name of National security. So when will the crack downs begin in your town? I suppose they will continue to steal the economic power of the lower classes for awhile yet. It's so much easier to dominate and rule masses concerned only with survival. But the day is coming soon enough. Sad though, there really are so many people who are actually in favor of this New World Order. People who see individuality and non conformity as a nuisance. They are your neighbors or family even.
This election will make no difference. The Democrat or the Republican will simply right from DAY ONE continue the eroding of what some of us used to consider the American Way of Life, though they all claim just the opposite. The Federal Reserve and Congress with it's inflationary policies continue to strip the economic power of those not blessed with exorbitant wealth, all in the name of saving the economy. People enjoy saying that the poor get what they deserve. The homeless and the criminal are simply victims of their own bad choices. Well, my friends it's the poor side of town that's getting more new residents everyday. And rest assured these new residents all said, like you, that this could never happen to them.
It's not bad luck, it's not Darwinism. It is a deliberate strategy from the upper most reaches of the Global Plutocracy. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama may try to hide their complicity in this plot, but their abstentions in this latest Senate vote scream otherwise from the darkness of their mutual silence. So please, you all go on and vote for the Black man or the Woman whom you feel will give you more. Because it is definitely more that you will get. It's just not what in your wildest delusional populist dreams what you think. These are two Globalist peas in a pod, dyed in the wool Corporates. The wool, that is what they are pulling over your eyes.
The ground work has been set, the Corporates have been immunized, the people's right to privacy stripped. The Primaries for both parties have brought you the candidates that will be only too happy to continue the march. Deny it to yourselves if you wish, but just go check the voting records of these candidates. Actions still speak louder than words. I am at the point where it really does start to concern me because I can already feel it. I don't have enough Dollars to keep shrugging off the rising prices for the necessities of life. I can see myself slipping through the cracks from here. I can't afford 10$/Gallon gas, 1500$/month mortgage, Health Care, 8$ hamburgers. I'm a survivor though. But my new reality is for me to have to admit that I've only been a survivor so far. And I don't see the trend changing for the better anytime soon.
I suppose when the Homeless problem reaches a certain thresh hold, or the mobs of hungry people get too unruly and loud, perhaps when the sick and diseased no longer have an out of the way place to die, then we'll see what the plan is for the FEMA camps. And yes, I read all this into this one latest vote by our Congress. I read enough into this vote to assure myself that the next President will not be,,,,,an American President at all.
http://blog.myspace.com/hosshoss777
I am a simple man of eclectic interests and tastes with no particular academic credentials. I still perceive, think, read and write somewhat. Writing music is a hobby of mine
On the spineless part I'm right there with you Hoss. On the rest, I don't think you've got a leg to stand on.
You're using the same old broad brush canard that if Democrats aren't perfect, then they are just as bad as Republicans.
You know the reason why Clinton and Obama abstained, because John McCain is gearing up to attack them both as being soft on terror and soft on national defense. You know that is the reason. They have minions of political advisers who unanimously have told them so, whether it is correct or not. Personally I think they would've gotten a big boost by showing some spine, but unfortunately I am not one of their advisers.
If you are a progressive your only hope is to vote for the most progressive candidate that is available, and then try to work from inside the system to change it for the better. Nothing can be done as long as the neocons are in control. Once the control of government has been taken from them, the people can start to work on the remaining elected officials.
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John R Moffett (80 articles, 14 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 601 comments)
on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 at 5:20:38 AM
So according to you, the Democrats "aren't perfect." Gee,
what a painstakingly accurate use of language. Is that really a fair descriptive phrase for a party that hasn't stood up to a single one of Bush's crimes over the last 7 years? It's like saying that the Mafia "isn't perfect."
The Democrats are a hell of a lot worse than "not perfect." Only their reflexive apologists would choose a misleading phrase like that.
By allowing the Telecom Immunity provision to pass, the Democrats are once again proving that the Constitution is no longer the law of the land. In your post, you find an excuse for Hillary & Obama. Neither one is fighting against Telecom Immunity -- but to you, this is OK, because they're protecting themselves from having the Republicans call them names.
You use the standard language of the Dem Party apologist: "If you are a progressive your only hope is to vote for the most progressive candidate that is available, and then try to work from inside the system to change it for the better...."
Oh, sure. When you say "available," what that means is the candidates that have been carefully vetted & approved by the US oligarchy. So what your statement amounts to, is the claim that progressives can choose from among candidates pre-approved by the oligarchy, & in this way elect leaders who will side with the mass of the population, against the interests of the oligarchy. And one does this by "working within" a system whose rules are made by the oligarchy.
Does that really seem very plausible to you?
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Richard Mynick (2 articles, 3 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 1120 comments)
on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 at 2:56:44 PM
It's the silence. I see the same Corporate donors giving to all three main candidates.
The Senate vote record I saw was linked to the New York Times article I received. The article didn't even mention that Clinton and Obama abstained. I had to look for myself at the link.
This is only my interpretation. But if you're living where the rubber hits the road on all this police state stuff and economic terrorism forcing people into debt or the street,,, then it all looks a little different.
I'll stick with my view until I can happily say that I was wrong. And I will be the first to say so.
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"Hoss" David P. (51 articles, 5 quicklinks, 14 diaries, 339 comments)
on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 at 6:39:02 AM
I'm not an Obama supporter, but according to an OpEd article posted yesterday, Obama voted yes on the measure and Clinton did not vote. The article catalogued all votes cast. See below
Among the presidential contenders, Senator John McCain, Republican of Arizona, voted in favor of the final measure, while the two Democrats, Senator Barack Obama of Illinois and Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York, did not vote. Mr. Obama did oppose immunity on a key earlier motion to end debate. Mrs. Clinton, campaigning in Texas, issued a statement saying she would have voted to oppose the final measure.
On his crusade that he started while campaigning for president.
As for Hillary and Barack, I knew they would pull this. They can't vote yes or no because that would mean they would have to take a stand. And politically, they can't decide because yea and nay bothers campaign staff of both campaigns. Nay, well---what if certain corporations stop funneling money to the campaign? Yea, well---what if we lose potential voters?
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Kevin Gosztola (194 articles, 103 quicklinks, 63 diaries, 776 comments)
on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 at 7:45:46 AM
guys, stop relying on the media. all you have to do is go to senate.gov to view the roll call. obama, indeed, voted in favor of the dodd/feingold amendment. clinton, however, did not cast a vote.
david and rob this article is headlined here and is innacurate. you need to make a correction.
thank you
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Cheryl Biren-Wright (17 articles, 16 quicklinks, 8 diaries, 323 comments)
on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 at 9:23:11 AM
i'm looking at the dodd/feingold amendment which would have now allowed for immunity in the bill. that clinton did not vote on but obama did. will go back and look things over once more. i did have a helluva lot of espresso this morning. but, i think that might be where the confusion is.
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Cheryl Biren-Wright (17 articles, 16 quicklinks, 8 diaries, 323 comments)
on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 at 9:42:41 AM
i brought up the wrong roll call. my sincere apologies to the author.
so everyone can have a good look at how each senator voted please go to this link.
i have a hard time putting trust in the new york times after they sat on the wiretapping story for a year at the request of the white house. i prefer to go straight to the source.
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Cheryl Biren-Wright (17 articles, 16 quicklinks, 8 diaries, 323 comments)
on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 at 9:49:58 AM
for the record it might be worth noting as i mentioned earlier obama did vote "yea" for the dodd/feingold amendment that would prevent immunity for the telecoms. clinton was a n/v. also, as the NY times reports and senate.gov confirms, obama did also vote "nay" on the cloture motion to end the debate. or maybe it's not worth noting. what do you think?
while i prefer obama to clinton, i'm not particularly feeling the "hope" and "yes we can" with obama.
so, was it the call of the campaign trail or fear of reprisal for voting against it that was the driving force for each of them. my bets are on the latter. i'd really like to know what others think about this.
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Cheryl Biren-Wright (17 articles, 16 quicklinks, 8 diaries, 323 comments)
on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 at 10:11:09 AM
agree with you more over the immunity issue. which is why i was temporarily encouraged by obama voting for the dodd/feingold amendment.
while congress has been engaged in the immunity debate, many of us contend this should all have been coming out in the context of impeachment hearings.
which brings me to my other beef with obama in that he stated last june that impeachment should be reserved for "grave, grave breeches." that's pretty scary when we already are dealing with torture, illegal domestic spying, extraordinary rendition, and a war of aggression based on 935 lies.
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Cheryl Biren-Wright (17 articles, 16 quicklinks, 8 diaries, 323 comments)
on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 at 10:45:36 AM
david, you might be interested in the discussion, particularly contributions by kevin zeese, over at rob's article, Holding Progressive Things Together.
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Cheryl Biren-Wright (17 articles, 16 quicklinks, 8 diaries, 323 comments)
on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 at 10:39:13 AM
Opinions are here and there.........as for my own, it seems to be pretty much with yours despite the others...........Actions are far more reliable than words and alot of folks here are really fired up about this election and are hoping for the best.........Honestly speaking, we are down right desperate...
Some of the people are voting not in good conscience such as those who vote just to see a woman or a black man become the next president.......What poor judgement that is for one to do that...........This election is much much more than that............For down to earth folks, the ones of us who can't afford $10/gal gas, $8 dollar burgers and $1500 mortgages, we tend to look through the bright lights and big city BS because we really don't have any other choice..........and I suggest to take care about the ones who draw you away from the reality............
I've said the same before, it will take $10/gal gas to slap the couch potatos into consciousness and I predict that will be shorty after the election is over.........unless we are blessed enough to see a stunner..........In any case, let's pray for one........
Let's see what we got at hand.........Hillary is bought and paid for.....kinda reminds me of Hosny Mabarack, King Abdullah and Ehud Olmert...........
Obama is a fool to run for President this time and will eventually let the Black folks down...........Knowing the mess this country is in and trying to overcome the far right at the same time, With his experience to date, he will either be running in circles or get sucked into the right wing spin..........You and I have seen how the cash flow, the bright lights and big city spin does that to some folks..........and God Bless the Black folks if that happens.........what a set back that would be............
So what's left to consider? Ahhh, there's ole Johnny Mac...........can't say he doesn't have experience........for Christ Sake he's 70 something and holding.........and Americans do like them War Hero's............problem here is, he thinks a damn money tree two miles high is growing on the front lawn of the White House........and anybody who could say 100 more years in Iraq has never had a relative die in vain or for the sake of greed............
But wait a minute, what about Ron Paul?..............Could he be something to ponder about? Can't deny he's a Libertarian, but we do need a drastic change and a little more Liberty don't you think?.........Could this election be taking a turn for the best?........He does talk that Middle Class talk and walks that Middle Class walk, records show he strong headed.........I like the sound of less Federal Government interference, getting back my Constitutional Rights, lowering taxes and bringing our troops home on two counts........(1) by saving American lives and (2) turning that steady flow of military cash back towards America for defensive protection instead of offensive aggression...........that alone just sounds more Godly.........
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Ernest (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 132 comments)
on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 at 11:28:24 AM
The main reason they did not vote on it is because they were otherwise engaged. The law allows Members of Congress to get their salary whether they show up for work or not. These two are largely not performing their responsibilities as Senators because they're devoting all their time to trying to get elected as President.
That said, they have sometimes left the campaign for a vote when it was predicted to be very close. This one was lopsided so it really didn't matter to the outcome (not to mention that they appear to be on opposite sides of it, so probably would have cancelled each other out).
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Bill Samuel (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 228 comments)
on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 at 2:28:04 PM
No matter which way they vote, they know they will either piss off voters or big campaign contributors who benefit from the bill. By not voting at all, they cover their own butts and don't jeopardize their Presidential campaigns.
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Watching (0 articles, 1 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 314 comments)
on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 at 3:30:21 PM
