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April 14, 2008 at 15:59:53

Headlined on 4/14/08:
A Novel Idea: Prosecuting Guilty American Leaders For Torture

by Lawrence Velvel     Page 1 of 1 page(s)

http://www.opednews.com

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Those who are not big deals know that ordinary folk often are not given credit for being the authors of ideas they either created or pushed early on. (Sometimes this even happens to big deals, like the inventors Nicholas Tesla and Elisha Gray.) My personal experience with this phenomenon goes back 40 years, when I was alone or virtually alone in writing of various matters relating to the Indo China war. Such matters included: the founders’ intent behind the declaration of war clause. The reversal of the constitutional and political systems occurring when the Executive takes us into war without Congressional authorization: now instead of a majority of each House having to authorize war and the President having to sign the war bill, it takes a majority in each house and a presidential signature to stop the President’s war, and it takes two-thirds in each house to override a veto, so that a mere one-third plus one in only one House can scuttle the bill -- an anticonstitutional fact that virtually destroys any political chance of stopping a presidential war. The correlative fact that Congress’ spending power is useless as a vehicle for stopping a war (though supporters of the Viet Nam war constantly invoked this Congressional power as supposedly justifying continuation of the war). The fact that the wording of the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution was a delegation to the president of Congress’ power to decide on war. The correlative fact that the Tonkin Resolution, however broadly it might have been worded, was not intended by Congress to be an authorization for a major war.

You will not find my work or name cited by the hordes of writers who later adopted these ideas with regard to either the Indo China war or later ones in which the ideas were relevant. Rather, you would have to go back 40 years to read my stuff -- and why in hell would anyone do that?

Well, so be it for ordinary people in this celebrity driven world. Nevertheless, in this posting and the next one this ordinary person shall again discuss new ideas in the hope that once again they may be picked up by others, by those who are celebrified, those who are read and listened to. The idea in the next posting, an idea which may be completely novel, deals with the question of when courts should strike down a law of Congress. The idea in this posting has begun to be bruited, especially because of ABC’s story (Jan Greenburg’s story, really) that people like Cheney, Powell, Rice, Ashcroft, Tenet, and Rumsfeld sat in the White House deciding what tortures should be applied to whom -- sort of like Lyndon Johnson sitting in the White House picking bombing targets. But though the idea has begun to be bruited, one fears it nonetheless will largely be ignored, with the consequence that in future we will face more disasters like Viet Nam and Iraq and like the entire situations -- the horrid, wide-ranging debacles -- surrounding those wars.

With regard to Greenburg’s story, anyone who wished to know -- instead of wishing to be blinded by naïveté or supposed patriotism -- has been aware for four years or so that the torture started at the top. The Administration and its lackeys in Congress, the media and the right wing public have tried to blame it on low level people in the army (or, though rarely, on general officers). They have likewise claimed that the torture memos produced by Yoo and others were done at the request of, and to protect, CIA field officers who were engaging in torture.

This was all 99 percent bullshit. Of course low level military guys were abusing and torturing prisoners, and of course CIA field torturers wanted the memos for protection. But that stuff is not the real truth. The real truth is that torture was ordered from the top and the torture memos were meant to give legal cover to -- were meant to preclude criminal actions against -- the Bushes, Cheneys, Rices, Tenets, Rumsfelds, Ashcrofts, Addingtons, Haynes and Feiths who were committing serious crimes that could be punished by execution.

The same is the real story behind the 2006 bill taking away jurisdiction from American courts to hear cases involving these crimes. The Administration and its Congressional lackeys pretend this was done so that lower level people wouldn’t be punished for supposedly doing their duty (notwithstanding the Nuremberg principles). This claim too is 99 percent bullshit. Of course, lower level people wanted protection. But the real concern, the one you have never heard expressed, was to protect the Bushes, Cheneys, Addingtons, Rices, et. al. against possible prosecution.

As said here many times, these people and their ilk must be punished, must be tried and sent to the slammer or the gallows. American officials have committed moral treason, if not legal treason. Legally, they are certainly guilty of crimes so serious that execution is a possible penalty. If they are not sent to the slammer or the gallows, this country will never be safe from their traitorous ilk, just as, due to the absence of punishment for Johnson, Rusk, McNamara, Nixon, Kissinger, et. al., we were not safe from the current moral traitors, from the current criminals, after the Viet Nam debacle. (There is a reason why Germany and Japan have not had to worry about people like this for over 60 years. That reason is called the gallows (in 1945 and 1946).)

The only way this punishment can occur is if liberals and progressives start demanding prosecutions and start demanding that all Democratic candidates for any federal office begin saying that justice will have to be done -- and that the 2006 immunity law will therefore have to be repealed, if necessary -- because we’ve had so many criminals in government (in all three branches frankly, most assuredly including federal judges who played the role of the German judges of Nazi times), and begin recognizing that this kind of evil will surely continue until people go to the slammer or swing as Germans and Japanese did.

Then there is the question of who will investigate and prosecute, and what tribunal will hear the matter. The Department of Justice could investigate and prosecute, but it is so deeply involved in the crimes that this probably is not a good idea. A better idea might be a special prosecutor -- an idea now being bruited -- with all necessary investigative, subpoena and other powers and with unlimited time and money to do the job.

A third possibility is to turn over these people to an international tribunal of one kind or another. (That might not only be appropriate, it might also be a hoot because of Bush’s refusal to recognize the International Criminal Court.) There could well be a number of western countries -- nations that are certainly not our enemies -- that would be willing to try the individuals whose crimes have caused so much chaos, so much disaster, and so much despair for so many.

 

http://velvelonnationalaffairs.com/

Lawrence R. Velvel is the Dean of the Massachusetts School of Law, which educates the working class, mid-life people, minorities and immigrants. He is the editor of a journal called The Long Term View, hosts an hour-long TV book show called Books of Our Time, which appears in the New England and Mid-Atlantic states on Comcast's CN8 and is streamed on the internet, and hosts a radio program called What The Media Doesn’t Tell You.  The radio program, which is carried on World Radio Network and is streamed on the internet, discusses important matters which the media doesn’t disclose (or insufficiently discloses) and the reasons for the nondisclosure.

Velvel wrote a 1970 book on the constitutionality of the Viet Nam War and civil disobedience, and a recent quartet called Thine Alabaster Cities Gleam, comprised of:  Misfit In America; Trail of Tears; The Hopes and Fears of Future Years: Loss and Creation; and The Hopes and Fears of Future Years: Defeat and Victory.

Velvel blogs at velvelonnationalaffairs.com. His 2004 and 2005 posts have been published in Blogs From the Liberal Standpoint: 2004-2005.

 

 

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Lifelong reader, sometime writer with eclectic tastes and libertarian leanings. Don't hold my semi-notorious Berkeley history against me, I settled down so completely after 40 that I can barely recall my loosy-goosy self. But it sure beats going to the same party every night.
LaudymsLifelong reader, sometime writer with eclectic tastes and libertarian leanings. Don't hold my semi-notorious Berkeley history against me, I settled down so completely after 40 that I can barely recall my loosy-goosy self. But it sure beats going to the same party every night.

Complicity

of the American people, who have ducked their heads and watched crap TV while depravity was being done in their name, will probably keep prosecutions from happening.

The land of the free, and the home of the brave wouldn't think twice about it.  Would that was what we were.

by Laudyms (0 articles, 702 quicklinks, 9 diaries, 344 comments) on Monday, April 14, 2008 at 5:22:44 PM
 



Wolfie

Dr. Velvel

would not impeachment bring in torture as a crime or misdemeanor subject to the congressional review.

where is the simple minded, like me!    hey, don't pick on this mutt. but aren't that which is both available to us under the corny-stitushun and required by the same, why is it not being done. although y could be just another crooked letter.

wolfie , the doctor of pepper. achooooooo!

by Wolfie (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 9 diaries, 979 comments) on Monday, April 14, 2008 at 5:55:32 PM
 


Virginia Simson is a spiritual journalista/activist who runs a visionary planetary tutorial blogspot, www.ladybroadoak.blogspot.com as well as a blog on the uranium industry and depleted uranium at www.lowlevelradiation.blogspot.com. She feels that we must educate the young as to the real issues of the day - economics, clean energy, a drug free lifestyle, friendship and concern for the environment. We must plan for seven generations in the future. She unconditionally supports impeachment and...

to see more of bio, click on member name

ladybroadoakVirginia Simson is a spiritual journalista/activist who runs a visionary planetary tutorial blogspot, www.ladybroadoak.blogspot.com as well as a blog on the uranium industry and depleted uranium at www.lowlevelradiation.blogspot.com. She feels that we must educate the young as to the real issues of the day - economics, clean energy, a drug free lifestyle, friendship and concern for the environment. We must plan for seven generations in the future. She unconditionally supports impeachment and...

to see more of bio, click on member name

My question .

would the esteemed professor risk get his neck broken in the streets over this?

Man, I have heard it all for the past seven years from academics since the Florida election was stolen. Yet, they take their risks, I know that.  I took my stand for human rights and now I pay.

I see now that there is another webiste devoted to the very plans I have proposed for months and months and months. But it's written by a GUY so people flock to read it.

http://restoreruleoflaw.com/

This idea has now been commodified and insittutionalized, will you BUY IT NOW?  OR will you BUY the martial law clampdown that is inevitable .. I suggest that Oregon is a likely target due to the earthquakes.  (Oped has not yet published my action alert on THAT.  Cassandra must be SILENCED elsewhere .. ) 

Without women doing all the drty work, imho, opinion nobody would even be reading this stuff anymore!!

but I'll tell you what I did today .. I took my measly disablility buck$ and bought a long distance phone card and called the head of media for the ACLU and told him to check out my articles posted on OpEd News and I warned him -- only young people on OpEd News read what I write really.  I told him what I think the reasons are too.

But I have asked that no one join, no one give them one red cent until they release their impeachment brochure.  I ask anyone reading this comment to call them up!! Like tomorrow.

Some can't keep their heads on straight and stick to the task with FOCUS .. they need every single body on line with them but lots of our so-called antiwar leaders don't really know how to speak with people, to speak with true heart!!

There are very real people who have stood up to BuZh and John Yoo openly over the past few years who know precisely what they are talking about, who know how to inspire those who will listen.  

I suggest we start LISTENING.  

You can check out my articles by accessing them on my author's page. I"e provided you strategic information for use in the upcoming days.

Some headline, some don't .. but they are all pretty good in my honest opinion. Why my post on John Yoo didn't headline is WAY WAY WAY beyond me even though I know the answer ..

which is that I stepped out of "role" - a women presuming to know more than a man does.  Yet I had to study high crimes and misdemeanors and international law to pursue my refugee case up here in Canada and I won - the case was conventiently overturned and my UN refugee certificate STOLEN FROM ME.  Hey, I never go an apology from anyone. And I probably never will let alone any compensation for pain and suffering of which there has been plenty. 

Let's just watch to see how many comments a MAN saying the exact same thing generates, shall we?

John Conyers?  John Conyers?  give me a friggin break. That guy, Nancy Pelosi, Henry Waxman all need to GO and soon. John Conyers held hearings on the renewal of the Blackwater contract -  trust me, given the opportunity he'll vote the money to fund them for the corrupt US State department.

What an Orwellian world it truly is.

 Read the site, www.freedetainees.org.

See what the US taxdollar has brought YOU, with YOUR money.

Write you states attorney general and demand that they uphold the Constitution .. find the attorneys who worked on the detainees' cases representing them who are honest (600 did NOT sign on for Obama, btw)

GET ugly, get ENRAGED, let your energy out. NOT ONE TORTURER has yet to do a day's time save the MIND-CONTROLLED, sex addicted Lynddie England.

This summer is CRUCIAL.  Get your eyes back on target - ignore the PSYOIPS on the internet, of which there is PLENTY.  Accept no subssitute for the truth.

Collect a bunch of pics of those who have been maimed, tortured, live in orphanages under the BuZh adminstration . start showing them in your local malls.  The clock is ticking .. the 9-year old prostitutes in Syria, providing meals for the widowed mothers are asking your help. 

As I sometimes sign,

CoZmic Mommy 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/01/AR2008040102213_Comments.html

JUst one of many intelligent threads about John Yoo. Funny too watch some in the legal community hedge.

Impeachment is THE Answer - ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES. and dont' take the word of anyone who would lunch with John Conyers or have a drink with his "nice" staf ..

 

 

 

by ladybroadoak (37 articles, 20 quicklinks, 12 diaries, 390 comments) on Monday, April 14, 2008 at 9:57:53 PM
 



Wolfie

yoo the man!

so right. so smart. so elegantly stated.

i think that the lady is the one who has the eye on the ball. if we listened to your crap acapella we will be singing "workin' on the chain gang, whoo.

defeatism sounds so sootheing. let's all play the victim. why curse at the stars, that won't bring them any closer.

wolfie gives this one to lady on points.

by Wolfie (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 9 diaries, 979 comments) on Monday, April 14, 2008 at 11:56:15 PM
 


Virginia Simson is a spiritual journalista/activist who runs a visionary planetary tutorial blogspot, www.ladybroadoak.blogspot.com as well as a blog on the uranium industry and depleted uranium at www.lowlevelradiation.blogspot.com. She feels that we must educate the young as to the real issues of the day - economics, clean energy, a drug free lifestyle, friendship and concern for the environment. We must plan for seven generations in the future. She unconditionally supports impeachment and...

to see more of bio, click on member name

ladybroadoakVirginia Simson is a spiritual journalista/activist who runs a visionary planetary tutorial blogspot, www.ladybroadoak.blogspot.com as well as a blog on the uranium industry and depleted uranium at www.lowlevelradiation.blogspot.com. She feels that we must educate the young as to the real issues of the day - economics, clean energy, a drug free lifestyle, friendship and concern for the environment. We must plan for seven generations in the future. She unconditionally supports impeachment and...

to see more of bio, click on member name

See as I always say on here .. and other places ..

WHO PAYS YOU?

And who do YOU pay?

still paying tax buck$ to kill iraqis and to pay BLACKWATER?

Do you just come aboard to "make nice" to all the other ROTTER liberals who don't give a damn if the torture continues and the "coloreds" are removed <i>somewhere else</i> = from Palestine, Irak, from Afghanistan, from Lebanon, from Sri Lanka ?  Paying attention to the genocide going on in Gaza, are ya ??

Were you in the south registering voters?

Did you do time during the Vietnam war?

Were you on the way to tent city when they shoot the bravest man to hit American, Dr. Martin Luther King?

Have you spoken up for Leonard Peltier to be released yet?

Have you fought the US government for eight years in a refugee tribunal?

Have you tried to maintain your sanity when you watch loudmouths like you PRESUME to know that legal remedies are a dream?

Tell your MURKAN elistist hubris to the people of Chile, of Ecuador, of Cuba, Estonia, Lativia and all other places that have Dismantled Tyranny.  See whatcha get. 

Give me a break. I've been at this for FORTY years, banging away, banging away for participatory democracy.  I am NOT connected to a "patron", no one in the MSM (which includes the Nation, btw) and thus my mouth is muffled in the extreme. But my words are TRUTH.  Paid for by me big time.

Let me tell you something - I am as educated as anyone, I just chose to work as an activist.  I am the backbone of America even though I am now forced to live in exile, and it is not only NOT to my liking but really nasty how I live. Yet, I do not grow cynical and callous - far from it.  I let my suffering open my heart ever further.

I actually feel the pain of those Iraki mothers and their daughters. I've met the surgeon women who did the abortions on rape victims in Afghanistan.

And i will never ever stop speaking for them as loudly as I can.  

I am mature enough to BELIEVE IN THE DREAM.

I make a DIFFERENCE; who I am and what I do MATTER.

If I seem a bit "abrupt" consider the passion behind these fingers and why it is there.  

People such as you really wind me up good - was that the entire point?

Go peddle your cynicism to someone else.

Meanwhile I will keep working - keep educating myself - keep being an ADVOCATE.

And thanx, Wolfie, some days I just need that little bit of a stroke to go out and do my next post, my next article, shed my next tears.  It's the "little things" that count most . . . You have NO idea what goes on with me here at OpEd News .. Just alot of bullshit sometimes.

Show of hands - how many actually read my post on the special prosecutor and the RULE OF LAW?  Think it's not worth it?  Was worth it to HUNDREDS of lawyers who have been to Guantanamo Bay.

I  spoke to the ACLU today.  I am writing them a letter telling them to call for impeachment - or no money and lots of writing on my part to tell people to not send them a dime until they do.  When I am done, I will publish it here.  I think I am going to send it to the high and mighty ICH, too. Let's see what happens, shall we? And if I get ignored, that doesn't mean I am wrong - it just means no one is really willing to listen to TRUTH yet.  But the day will come - that's how life works.  PARTICIPATORY DEMOCRACY, get a handle on it.  I am no fan of the "distanced" academics nor lawyers- but they are citizens, too. And I support them going out and tell the BuZhistas to get prepared to face a WAR CRIMES tribunal, I surely do. Why should thecriminals have untroubled sleep while they consume their drugs paid by YOU?

 

 

 

 

by ladybroadoak (37 articles, 20 quicklinks, 12 diaries, 390 comments) on Tuesday, April 15, 2008 at 2:22:43 AM
 


Virginia Simson is a spiritual journalista/activist who runs a visionary planetary tutorial blogspot, www.ladybroadoak.blogspot.com as well as a blog on the uranium industry and depleted uranium at www.lowlevelradiation.blogspot.com. She feels that we must educate the young as to the real issues of the day - economics, clean energy, a drug free lifestyle, friendship and concern for the environment. We must plan for seven generations in the future. She unconditionally supports impeachment and...

to see more of bio, click on member name

ladybroadoakVirginia Simson is a spiritual journalista/activist who runs a visionary planetary tutorial blogspot, www.ladybroadoak.blogspot.com as well as a blog on the uranium industry and depleted uranium at www.lowlevelradiation.blogspot.com. She feels that we must educate the young as to the real issues of the day - economics, clean energy, a drug free lifestyle, friendship and concern for the environment. We must plan for seven generations in the future. She unconditionally supports impeachment and...

to see more of bio, click on member name

ps ..

I worked for the mobilization against the War in Vietnam and was an activist in SDS - I was told continually to "give it up", wasn't gonna happen, butcha ya know what . the vets came home, gave us all a good dose of vitality and leadership and stength and we DID make that stoopid war -- and the agent orange drops -- end.  Allelujah! I've met some exceptional Vietnamese since then and can hold my head HIGH.  Most are just really really nice to me when they find out what I did ..

You can call me a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.. I hope that one day you'll join us, and the world can live as ONE.

 

by ladybroadoak (37 articles, 20 quicklinks, 12 diaries, 390 comments) on Tuesday, April 15, 2008 at 2:29:40 AM
 



Wolfie

and agent white and agent purple

as told to me by one who was tethered to the back of a cargo plane,  as he had dropped this murderous load down to ignorant soldiers who were mindlessly killing the "other" and in reality them-selves.

thank you - lady.  i'll try to keep my snoot clean but sniff out the truth as best i can (ine).   i do not want to be leashed by the rich and powerful who are really corrupt and decayed by hatred.

wolfie will bark with you, and never at you. i'm going back to my "pup" tent for an afternoon nap.

by Wolfie (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 9 diaries, 979 comments) on Tuesday, April 15, 2008 at 10:51:33 AM
 



Wolfie

and agent white and agent purple

as told to me by one who was tethered to the back of a cargo plane,  as he had dropped this murderous load down to ignorant soldiers who were mindlessly killing the "other" and in reality them-selves.

thank you - lady.  i'll try to keep my snoot clean but sniff out the truth as best i can (ine).   i do not want to be leashed by the rich and powerful who are really corrupt and decayed by hatred.

wolfie will bark with you, and never at you. i'm going back to my "pup" tent for an afternoon nap.

by Wolfie (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 9 diaries, 979 comments) on Tuesday, April 15, 2008 at 10:51:37 AM
 



Wolfie

and agent white and agent purple

as told to me by one who was tethered to the back of a cargo plane,  as he had dropped this murderous load down to ignorant soldiers who were mindlessly killing the "other" and in reality them-selves.

thank you - lady.  i'll try to keep my snoot clean but sniff out the truth as best i can (ine).   i do not want to be leashed by the rich and powerful who are really corrupt and decayed by hatred.

wolfie will bark with you, and never at you. i'm going back to my "pup" tent for an afternoon nap.

by Wolfie (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 9 diaries, 979 comments) on Tuesday, April 15, 2008 at 10:51:40 AM
 



Wolfie

and agent white and agent purple

as told to me by one who was tethered to the back of a cargo plane,  as he had dropped this murderous load down to ignorant soldiers who were mindlessly killing the "other" and in reality them-selves.

thank you - lady.  i'll try to keep my snoot clean but sniff out the truth as best i can (ine).   i do not want to be leashed by the rich and powerful who are really corrupt and decayed by hatred.

wolfie will bark with you, and never at you. i'm going back to my "pup" tent for an afternoon nap.

by Wolfie (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 9 diaries, 979 comments) on Tuesday, April 15, 2008 at 10:51:47 AM
 



Wolfie

and agent white and agent purple

as told to me by one who was tethered to the back of a cargo plane,  as he had dropped this murderous load down to ignorant soldiers who were mindlessly killing the "other" and in reality them-selves.

thank you - lady.  i'll try to keep my snoot clean but sniff out the truth as best i can (ine).   i do not want to be leashed by the rich and powerful who are really corrupt and decayed by hatred.

wolfie will bark with you, and never at you. i'm going back to my "pup" tent for an afternoon nap.

by Wolfie (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 9 diaries, 979 comments) on Tuesday, April 15, 2008 at 10:51:53 AM
 



Wolfie

wolfie got the burps

sorry that my trigger paw was set on scratch mode! i didn't mean to hog  so much valuable space. but when  i get started i do tend to wolf down much more than i could chew.

i didn't want to be a wolfie in bleeps clothing.

by Wolfie (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 9 diaries, 979 comments) on Tuesday, April 15, 2008 at 10:57:34 AM
 

 

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