I thought Republicans were the ones always trashing science? There is no credible evidence, zero, nada, connecting mercury and autism. Even Dr. Mark Geier, MD, as great an anti-vax zealot as there is, conceded there are no credible studies linking the two. Yes, mercury is dangerous. But so is oxygen, under certain concentrations. Chlorine killed thousands in the first world war, yet we sprinkle it on our french fries. Yes, the government ignores the mercury-autism connection, but in the same way it ignores the Bermuda Triangle, or UFOs. It's bad enough we had an administration that sacrifices sound science for political expediency. Now we have erstwhile liberals ignoring science, but for what? C'mon guys, we're the smart ones.

by Heraldblog (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments) on Friday, Sep 22, 2006 at 11:19:24 AM

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Boy I don't know what planet you live on or where you came up with the comment that Mark Geier says there is no evidence of a link between thimerosal vaccine and autism, but I suggest that you do a google search of Evelyn Pringle and Mark Geier and it will bring up numerous articles and reports on studies and direct quotes by and from Mark Geier saying there is an absolute link between thimerosal and autism. Evelyn Pringle

by Evelyn Pringle (181 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 10 comments) on Friday, Sep 22, 2006 at 11:27:38 AM

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Clearly, Ms. Pringle, considering that you are clearly a hired publicist for class action attorneys, a/k/a vultures, your credibility is at issue. Nearly everything of yours that I have read that you have written online is written in support of a class action lawsuit.

by TheProbe (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 2 comments) on Saturday, Sep 23, 2006 at 2:12:30 PM

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Fair enough. And in the meantime, you can Google Dr. Geier's testimony in the 2004 RhoGam vaccine lawsuit. The judge in that case said Geier did not meet the standard for being qualified as an expert witness for the plaintiff, and wrote this: "It is also significant in the review of his methodology that Dr. Geier could not point to a single study that conclusively determined that any amount of mercury could cause the specific neurological disorder of autism." And then there's this from the court transcript: Q. Have you ever been involved in the diagnosis of autistic children? Geier: No, not directly. Q. Have you ever been involved in the care and treatment of autistic children? Geier: Not before this week. Just recently, but not in the distant past¦ Q. Do you have any formal training in the field of toxicology? Geier: No¦ Q. Have you ever been involved in the care or treatment of victims of mercury poisoning? Geier:Not until recently. Q. And what is the recent episode that you are alluding to? Geier: We presented a new idea on how to treat autism and how to treat mercury poisoning, because these kids aren't autistic, they're mercury poisoned. And some people are now trying some of these ideas on some of the children. Although I'm not happy with trying it on children without further research, these people are desperate and there have been some remarkable responses¦ Q. Do you have any formal training in pharmacokinetics or toxicokinetics? Geier:Just whatever courses I took in my Ph.D. and medical school. So in answer to your question, I live on the same planet as Dr. Mark Geier. In fact, the two of us agree there is no convincing link between mercury and autism! So what do say, Evie. Do you trust Dr. Geier's words, spoken under oath in a court of law? Or do you trust what he tells his patients? Your turn.

by Heraldblog (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments) on Friday, Sep 22, 2006 at 2:15:33 PM

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We can do the battle of the judges in court. Here's another judge's take on Geier as an expert, followed by a more recent interviews Finally, Dr Geier has testified as an expert witness in about 100 cases before the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program in the US Court of Federal Claims. In one such case, on November 25, 2003, the Special Master French issued an opinion in which he praised Geier's credentials and vast experience and said in part: Dr Geier "ranks high among those who have studied vaccine issues through the medical literature on vaccines, databases, studies, articles and information on vaccine safety and efficacy in vaccine policy." ... "The tenor of his testimony in this case addressed the importance of statistical databases in providing statistical reliability and validity in interpreting the epidemiology and issues relating to autism and various vaccines. . . . Dr Geier has recently proposed a data-sharing process that would improve the reliability of present statistical data that would include the present VAERS statistical database. It would be helpful in interpreting the epidemiology and issues relating to the autism controversy." On January 19, 2004, Mark and David Geier told Kelly O'Meara of Insight News that the CDC and the FDA know that thimerosal vaccines caused the epidemic: "Believe us, there is no scientific issue here. This is fraud. The CDC and the FDA know what is happening. They just can't admit it because it is one of the worst things ever to have happened to this United States. If a terrorist had done this, we wouldn't attack them, we'd nuke them. We're talking about one in eight children in the U.S. that currently are in special education, and that number is going to change to about one in five. What percentage of our young population can we destroy before we realize how serious this is?" "When these kids grow up," the Geiers explained in 2005 in an interview published in Medical Veritas 2 (2005) 465–471, "they are not going to be able to work." "They are going to need institutionalized care or special care," they said, "and the bill to this country is going to be so devastating; this country is going to have trouble surviving the way we know it." The good news for the nation, Dr Geier says, is that since the removal of thimerosal from vaccines in some stateds "the rate of autism is dropping as can be seen in the recent data from California and other databases." For doubter, Dr Geier recommends that people go to the websites at www.pubmed.com or Medline and type in the word "Thimerosal" to find hundreds of peer-reviewed articles published on the toxicity of thimerosal, dating back as far as the 1950s and 1960s. March 21, 2003 Press Release announcing study published in Medical Journal: Study: Childhood Vaccines Exceed Federal Guidelines for Mercury & Link with Neurological Disorders & Heart Disease in Children Complete Ban Could Prevent Autism, Speech Disorders Washington - A new study of mercury in childhood vaccines demonstrates that the doses are in excess of the Federal Safety Guidelines, and shows alarming evidence for a link between these excessive doses of mercury from thimerasol-containing vaccines and neurodevelopment disorders such as autism and speech disorders, as well as heart disease Those are the findings of the study published in the current issue of the peer-reviewed Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons (JP&S), authored by Mark Geier, M.D., Ph.D, President of The Genetic Centers of America, and David Geier. The authors also conclude that the U.S. should ban the use of thimerosal in all vaccines. "It is to be hoped that complete removal of thimerosal from all childhood vaccines will help to stem the tragic, apparently iatrogenic epidemic of autism and speech disorders that the United States is now facing," write the authors. The authors point to exploding rates of autism since introduction of thimerosal in vaccines. In less than 20 years, the rate increased by more than 800 percent, from one in about 2,500 children in the mid-1980s to one in about 300 children in 1996. "Many in the scientific community have, initially, been highly skeptical that thimerosal, an ethylmercury preservative in childhood vaccines, could be associated with neurodevelopment disorders," write the Geiers. BACKGROUND: In 2001, the Institute of Medicine concluded that exposure to mercury in vaccines and neurodevelopment disorders could not be linked because of indirect and incomplete information, but that the link was biologically possible. This study now confirms that, showing that there was a 2 to 6-fold increased incidence of neurodevelopment disorders following an additional 75-100 microgram dosage of mercury from thimerosal-containing vaccines compared to thimerosal-free vaccines. METHODOLGY: The study consists of two parts. In the first, the authors evaluated the doses of mercury that children received from thimerosal-containing vaccines, as part of routine US childhood immunization schedule. Those doses were compared to the US Federal Safety Guidelines for the oral ingestion of methylmercury. Secondly, in order to analyze the effects of thimerosal in vaccine recipients, they analyzed the incidence rates of neurodevelopment disorders reported following thimerosal-containing vaccines in comparison to thimerosal-free vaccines. The data used was from the government's Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS). Vaccines compared were Diptheria-Tetanus-whole-cell-Pertussis and Diptheria-Tetanus-acellur-Pertussis. Also, the authors analyzed data from the US Department of Education on the number of children of various ages in US schools who were reported with various types of disabilities in comparison to the mercury dose that children received from thimerosal in their childhood vaccines. CONCLUSION: "In light of voluminous literature supporting the biologic mechanisms for mercury-induced adverse reactions, the presence of amounts of mercury in thimerosal-containing childhood vaccines exceeding Federal Safety Guidelines for the oral ingestion of mercury, and previous epidemiological studies showing adverse reactions to such vaccines, a causal relationship between thimerosal-containing childhood vaccines and neurodevelopment disorders ... appears to be confirmed," write the authors. The AAPS, a professional non-partisan association, was established in 1943 to protect Cheers Evie

by Evelyn Pringle (181 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 10 comments) on Friday, Sep 22, 2006 at 3:07:11 PM

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This is a serious question, as their methodology and statistics have been soundly trashed by several people. Their "studies" smell like manufactured evidence to support their testimony when acting as "expert" witnesses, a/k/a hired guns. When that judge accepted their testimony, their antics regarding plagiarism, false reporting of credentials, etc. were not known. Today, they could not survive a Daubert hearing even if the judge was a claimant.

by TheProbe (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 2 comments) on Saturday, Sep 23, 2006 at 2:09:48 PM

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So basically, you're using the Geiers' own words to support what the Geiers are saying. Is that what your side's been reduced to? According to Heraldblog, Geier knows there is no connection between mercury and autism. Hey, that was fun! It doesn't matter that Geier testified as a paid witness over 100 times before the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. Does the Daubert standard even apply in those situations? I doubt it. And a special master is not necessarily a judge, or an attorney for that matter. I don't expect you to believe that - facts have always been a tough sell to a movement that values wishful thinking and conspiracy theories over science. You know, you could do the cause of liberalism a great favor if you had yourself photographed golfling with Jerry Falwell. Because right now, you're a liability to the progressive cause. Why don't you go drag down the other side instead?

by Heraldblog (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 25 comments) on Friday, Sep 22, 2006 at 7:20:06 PM

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