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Tag(s): History; McCain-John; POW; Prisoners; Psychology
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August 23, 2008 at 08:57:38

Why Did John McCain Really Choose to Remain a POW in Vietnam?

by Philosopher Jay Page 1 of 1 page(s)

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You can read John McCain's own account of his time as a POW at http://tinyurl.com/ysw3nk . There is a glaring problem with his account.

McCain says that he was treated for his wounds and injuries the first six months of his captivity. He does complain that he was not given immediate medical attention the first four days after he was captured, but this seems unlikely as his wounds were so serious that he would have died if this was true.

Now after this, McCain claims that the Vietnamese wanted to send him back to the U.S. as a goodwill gesture and they became angry when he refused to go. He felt that his going home would demoralize other prisoners. He demanded the release of other prisoners first. The Vietnamese tied him up for one night and beat him for four days according to McCain. He then signed a confession of War Crimes.

The inconsistency consists in his signing a confession of war crimes; while refusing to return home. Why would a severely injured pilot being shipped home demoralize POW's, while signing a confession of War Crimes would not demoralize them? Since the Vietnamese had already sent home other severely injured prisoners as a humanitarian gesture, the other POW's could hardly have felt bad about McCain going back to the United States. On the other hand, having him sign a confession of war crimes, must have severely demoralized them. By not going home, but staying and signing a confession of war crimes McCain, was, in fact, choosing the more demoralizing choice for the POWs. If he was interested in helping his fellow POWs, he would simply have gone home. Even if some may have resented the fact that McCain was sent home before them, they could hardly have ignored the severity of his injuries. It would certainly have cheered them up to know that the Vietnamese really wanted to keep American POWs alive and to send them back to the United States.

But if helping his fellow POWs was not the real reason he voluntarily stayed almost five years in Vietnam more than he had too, what was the real reason? His actions seem to point to the idea that he had a genuine conversion to the Vietnamese side after they saved his life. He voluntarily offered his services to them. This would be my guess for his quite bizarre behavior, the only man in the history of the war who remained a POW out of choice.

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9 comments

JC Garrett is a freelance writer and Constitutional scholar from the piney-woods of East Texas. He apologizes to the entire world that the great Lone Star State could have produced the neo-Neanderthal currently occupying the Oval Office.

"I'm not ashamed to be an American. I'm ashamed George W. Bush is an American."

Mr. Garrett owns and operates an independent recording studio, plays several instruments, writes, sings, and produces music.

His stories have ...

to see more of bio, click on member name
JC GarrettJC Garrett is a freelance writer and Constitutional scholar from the piney-woods of East Texas. He apologizes to the entire world that the great Lone Star State could have produced the neo-Neanderthal currently occupying the Oval Office.

"I'm not ashamed to be an American. I'm ashamed George W. Bush is an American."

Mr. Garrett owns and operates an independent recording studio, plays several instruments, writes, sings, and produces music.

His stories have ...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Wrong

We may not know the exact reason he decided to stay, but it's just not plausible that it was because he 'switched sides' to the Vietnamese.

This is just not true, and it's not something that should even be suggested. It weakens our legitimate arguments against McCain.

by JC Garrett (40 articles, 65 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 604 comments) on Saturday, August 23, 2008 at 9:24:22 AM

retired comm. fisherman, former teacher of the deaf-blind, Grandfather in a wonderful family (I'm a lucky/blessed man), environmental and radical/progressive political activist, Aging Hippie (60), Refusenik in the Vietnam era, served 2 years alternate service as a "judicial conscientious objector", counselor to young people on alternatives to military service.
Papawhaleretired comm. fisherman, former teacher of the deaf-blind, Grandfather in a wonderful family (I'm a lucky/blessed man), environmental and radical/progressive political activist, Aging Hippie (60), Refusenik in the Vietnam era, served 2 years alternate service as a "judicial conscientious objector", counselor to young people on alternatives to military service.

Character

I don't think McCain has such a hero's character with what I know of him, especially bringing up his POW/hero jazz every 5 minutes. This is a guy who had no problem bombing villages--why wouldn't he sell out to the N.Vietnamese? I have no problem with that scenario--it makes more sense than not.

by Papawhale (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 63 comments) on Saturday, August 23, 2008 at 9:31:05 AM

Huh?

Do you not see the humongous contradiction in your comment?

First you say he was a bloodthirsty murderer of North Vietnamese, and then - in the very same sentence - you say they became best friends.

by JC Garrett (40 articles, 65 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 604 comments) on Saturday, August 23, 2008 at 9:38:44 AM

I am 54 year-old, male, college Philosophy and Humanities teacher. I have degrees in Philosophy and Film. I have authored a book called "The Evolution of Christs and Christianies" and am now working on a sequel. I have produced two features films, "I Married a Vampire" (1984) and "Electra, Love 2000" (1993) distributed by Troma, inc.
Philosopher JayI am 54 year-old, male, college Philosophy and Humanities teacher. I have degrees in Philosophy and Film. I have authored a book called "The Evolution of Christs and Christianies" and am now working on a sequel. I have produced two features films, "I Married a Vampire" (1984) and "Electra, Love 2000" (1993) distributed by Troma, inc.

Good Point

I, perhaps, phrased things wrong in my article. I am thinking that McCain was neither a hero or a villain. He did what he thought he needed to do to survive. The military tends to make people quite obedient to authority. When McCain was captured, the authority became the Vietnamese. McCain said and did the things that they wanted.

McCain makes a big thing about four days in his narrative. For four days he was not given medical attention, for four days when he refused to go home six months later, he was beaten. Both of these narratives are self-serving, unvarifiable and probably false. If the Vietnamese wanted military secrets from McCain as he claims would they really not treat him for four days and let him die of his wounds? Absurd. If the Vietnamese wanted to send him back to America would they really start beating him to get him to go? Again absurd. The truth is probably that McCain was immediately treated for his wounds and on the fourth day he voluntarily gave them the military information they wanted. It must have felt that it was the best thing he could do to save his life. I doubt if 99% of people would have done differently.

McCain, thereafter. being from a military background, probably felt a great deal of guilt over what he had done. After six months, where he admits he was not tortured, but was helped to recover, he realized that if he returned home, he would be accused of collaboration with the enemy. For a man born into a proud military family, this would have been the worse thing possible. Staying in Vietnamese, even under the conditions of being a POW was preferable to McCaine than being sent home to face court marshall charges.

One should feel deep sympathy, perhaps, for the horrible situation he found himself in. His choice was to stay in Vietnam where he was confined, but treated with respect and dignity or return to his country and face disgrace as a traitor and possibly a long prison sentence. One can well understand why he choice the misery of the former rather than the misery of the latter.

The military, which at McCain's request, have kept his military records a secret, had a choice also when he came home. They could accuse the son of an admiral of being a traitor and collaborator, or they could paint him as a war hero. The military chose to paint him as a hero.

I think it is best to view McCain as someone who chose to live rather than live up to the impossibly high standards set for him by the military. I believe McCain's desire for political power is a way of compensating for his failure to be the war hero that the military and his father wanted him to be.

The irony here is that when McCain declares, as he often does, that he is not a war hero, he is being absolutely truthful and yet nobody believes him. They believe he is being modest and adore him all the more for it.

by Philosopher Jay (6 articles, 0 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 29 comments) on Saturday, August 23, 2008 at 10:31:07 AM

Amazing

Now THAT is the article you really should've written.

You impress me beyond words, Jay - to take a second look and give your work an honest assessment, and to respond so very completely - that took guts.

I'm no McCain fan, and I am awfully hard on him in my own work. But I do believe in keeping things in perspective.

You're a rare breed, Jay.

by JC Garrett (40 articles, 65 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 604 comments) on Saturday, August 23, 2008 at 11:00:52 AM

Writer/Photographer. Special interests in media reform, restoring/protecting the constitution, support for returning veterans, ending the Iraq occupation and improving relations with Iran. In the meantime, I'll settle for a vanilla latte and a keyboard while exposing those who prmote ideologies like the Bush Doctrine that subvert our constitution, encourage terrorism and are morally and ethically corrupt.

Writer and managing editor for OpEdNews.com.

Contact info: cher...

to see more of bio, click on member name
Cheryl Biren-WrightWriter/Photographer. Special interests in media reform, restoring/protecting the constitution, support for returning veterans, ending the Iraq occupation and improving relations with Iran. In the meantime, I'll settle for a vanilla latte and a keyboard while exposing those who prmote ideologies like the Bush Doctrine that subvert our constitution, encourage terrorism and are morally and ethically corrupt.

Writer and managing editor for OpEdNews.com.

Contact info: cher...

to see more of bio, click on member name

my understanding

is that mccain didn't "give them what they wanted" until beatings that occurred after he was offered repatriation. it was a few months after he declined to be released that he made his propaganda "confession."

by Cheryl Biren-Wright (26 articles, 25 quicklinks, 8 diaries, 403 comments) on Monday, August 25, 2008 at 1:25:32 PM

questions

you wrote:

the only man in the history of the war who remained a POW out of choice.

do you have a source for that?

also, are you convinced that mccain's choice to not be released before others who came before him is necessarily incongruent with the confession he later signed? couldn't it just be that through torture he reached his breaking point?

by Cheryl Biren-Wright (26 articles, 25 quicklinks, 8 diaries, 403 comments) on Monday, August 25, 2008 at 1:01:33 PM

McCain and Early Release

Hi Cheryl,

Philip Butler has this to say about Early Release:

(click here
***
John was offered, and refused, "early release." Many of us were given this offer. It meant speaking out against your country and lying about your treatment to the press. You had to "admit" that the U.S. was criminal and that our treatment was "lenient and humane." So I, like numerous others, refused the offer. This was obviously something none of us could accept. Besides, we were bound by our service regulations, Geneva Conventions and loyalties to refuse early release until all the POW's were released, with the sick and wounded going first.
***
My understanding from other articles is that only a few severely wounded prisoners were offered early release.

Col. Gordon Larson says this about another POW's early release:

(http://www.soft-vision.com/hanoi/larson/bio_6.htm)

***
Seaman Hegdahl was offered early release with two other POW's but he refused because he knew that the Senior Officers policy was that there would be no early release, and that when we went home, it would be in the order that we were shot down and captured. When it was learned that Hegdahl might be offered early release with another group, the Senior Officer that was in communications with the camp felt that the information he possessed should be gotten out and he ordered Hegdahl to accept early release and take home the vital information he possessed, as the other 8 individuals that were released, had little or no knowledge of the true conditions in the camps. (Sad to say, they had little or no desire to learn any of it either).

Immediately upon his release, Hegdahl revealed not only the aforementioned information, but had data and locations of other camps and suspected locations. The Vietnamese were furious with him and embarrassed with much "loss of face" by being taken in by this "non-entity". That was the last time there were any early releases.
***

So apparently early release ended in August or September of 1969. Yet, since he was an admiral's son and wounded, it is likely that McCain still could have obtained it. Which leads us back to the question of why he would sign confessions of war crimes, but not accept early release.

by Philosopher Jay (6 articles, 0 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 29 comments) on Monday, August 25, 2008 at 5:47:11 PM

Retired. Male. Western Minnesota. Social Science/Spanish undergrad majors. Master's in Counseling. Socialist.
Bryan EmmelRetired. Male. Western Minnesota. Social Science/Spanish undergrad majors. Master's in Counseling. Socialist.

John McCain - POW

I think that it will be impossible to know exactly what happened in that POW camp in Hanoi and the timing of when things happened unless we gain access to records from the prison and are able to interview Vietnamese personnel who were involved. None of the prisoners had a complete idea of what was happening. McCain acts as if he has some unexpressed guilt feelings about what he did there. Did he cooperate with progaganda films voluntarily to get special priveleges? Better care? There were other prisoners at that prison who said they didn't trust him.

by Bryan Emmel (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 218 comments) on Tuesday, August 26, 2008 at 1:46:13 AM