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September 6, 2008 at 14:15:28

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Headlined on 9/6/08:
Obama for Skeptics

by Mikhail Lyubansky     Page 1 of 2 page(s)

www.opednews.com

 

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This piece is for the skeptics. Not for skeptical Republicans (I imagine you have your minds made up already), but for all the undecideds and independents, for all the middle-of-the-roadsters, for the person who is right now saying "I would be happy with either candidate as President" or, I suppose, for the one who is saying "I can't stand either of these guys." I’ve been listening to you, reading your editorials. I know what you’re saying. Dare I say, I know what you’re not saying too. Obama skeptics: This piece is for you.

“The only thing he’s done is give a good speech.”

I suppose we can blame Hillary Clinton for this, but I suspect Republicans would have come up with this line of attack anyway. In any case, here’s what it sounded like coming from Clinton during the primary campaign in mid-February in Lordstown, Ohio:

“Over the years you’ve heard plenty of promises from plenty of people and plenty of speeches. And some of those speeches were probably pretty good. But speeches don’t put food on the table. Speeches don’t fill up your tank. Speeches don’t fill your prescriptions. My opponent makes speeches. I offer solutions. It’s one thing to get people excited. I want to empower you…There’s a big difference between us—speeches versus solutions. Talk versus action. You know, some people may think words are change. But you and I know better. Words are cheap.”

Fast forward to Joe Lieberman speaking at the GOP National Convention:

"Sen. Barack Obama is a gifted and eloquent young man who I think can do great things for our country in the years ahead. But my friends, eloquence is no substitute for a record--not in these tough times."

Different person, same argument, which would be fine if it had any merit to it, but it is still now (as it was in February) nothing more than a smokescreen. I agree that Obama still has to back up all the good rhetoric, but at least the rhetoric is, in fact, good. More on the substance later. First, let me point out that the argument is, at its very core, illogical. The argument hinges on the presumed association between good speeches and lack of subsequent action. But why would inaction be more associated with good speeches than those that are bad or merely mediocre? It has nothing to do with promises. Every politician makes those, Clinton and Lieberman included. And certainly, despite Clinton’s implication (“My opponent makes speeches. I offer solutions.”), it can have nothing to do with the act of speech-making itself, not when Clinton and now McCain are campaigning just as long and have just as many “speaking engagements”. So why exactly should a good speech mean anything more (or less) than just that, a good speech? Yeah, I can’t think of any reason either.

But there is something more too. It's tempting to dismiss talk as just "talk", but talking is also a form of behavior. What we choose to say says something important about who we are. If you listen carefully to Obama's speeches, there is empathy there that you just don't hear very often at this level of politics. Not promises (those can and will get broken), not sympathy (who among us doesn’t feel sad for the families who lost loved ones in Iraq?) but genuine empathy (defined as emotionally putting yourself in the place of another) for a variety of different people across many different demographic lines. Here's how one linguist broke it down: http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=4751. The author is unmistakably pro-Obama, but that's not really relevant. Show me a pro-McCain article that discusses his empathy. If you can’t recall any, it’s not because of a memory deficit. If you haven’t seen any, it’s not because you haven’t read enough. Genuine empathy is not something that can be faked. Most politicians, McCain included, know better than to try.

“He’s just like every other politician (I don’t trust him)”

It’s really to Obama’s credit that the charge of being “just like every other politician” is generally perceived as a criticism. We can argue the degree to which Obama really does transcend “politics as usual”, but I think that’s really not the point. After all, Americans have voted for “every other politician” in every previous election to date. The way I see it, the key part of this “argument” lies in its second (often unstated) part: that, for whatever reason, he is not trustworthy (or less trustworthy) – not because he is like every other politician (after all, we choose to place our trust somewhere), but because in some important way he is unlike every other politician.

How is Obama unlike other politicians, or more accurately, other recent Presidential candidates? I made a list, certainly not an exhaustive one, but it’s a start.

1. He’s not White (might as well get that out of the way first)

2. He’s not patriotic

3. He’s not experienced

Let’s examine them one at a time, well sort of.

He’s not white/He’s not patriotic. Racial dynamics are clearly going to play a role in the November election. Elsewhere (see http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/15828), I’ve argued that allowing the candidate’s race to play a role in deciding who to vote for is not necessarily a bad thing and that electing a Black President would be beneficial to this country and its citizens in a number of different ways. But where some see benefits, others see potential costs. One of these, for many White people, seems to be that it’s harder to trust Obama, not because of explicit racist beliefs (these exist too, in some circles) but because his racial status seems to suggest to some people that his allegiances may lie somewhere other than the nation’s best interest. Any evidence of this is, of course, hard to find, but as psychologists have long understood: perception is reality. And the reality for many White Americans is that inconsequential behavior (such as not wearing a small-flag pin on his lapel) is filtered through preconceived notions and consequently given inordinate weight and consequence. This is what’s important in a President? That he wears a flag pin? Few voters will admit to distrusting Obama because of his race, but when was the last time a major party’s Presidential nominee had to defend his patriotism during the party’s National Convention, as Obama did this past week? Call it “lack of patriotism” if you want to, but at least “try on” whether you would feel the same way if Obama were White?

 1  |  2

 

www.psych.uiuc.edu/~lyubansk/

Mikhail Lyubansky, Ph.D., is a member of the teaching faculty in the Department of Psychology at the University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign, where he teaches Psychology of Race and Ethnicity and Theories of Psychotherapy. His research and writing interests focus on conditions associated with changes in social identity and beliefs about race, ethnicity, and nationalism, especially in immigrant and minority populations. He is a regular contributor to edited volumes on popular culture, including Harry Potter, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and House MD, published by BenBella and recently co-authored a book on the Russian-Jewish diaspora: Building a diaspora: Russian Jews in Israel, Germany, and the United States. Born in Kiev, Mikhail immigrated with his family to the United States as a child in 1977. He currently serves as a senior editor at OpEdNews. All material on this site published under his byline remains the property of Mikhail Lyubansky, copyright 2008. Permission is granted to repost and distribute, with proper attribution. An autobiographical essay of his interests in race relations and basketball is available here.

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21 comments

A writer is a rogue goose. All other gees fly in a flock formation; every goose knows his place and time for honking. The rogue goose is undisciplined. He leaves the formation indiscriminately to have a look at it from aside. He roams back and forth, takes a peep at the leader, honks a little bit from behind, distracts everyone and writes on what he sees. Time passes and as he wants to return back to his place he discovers someone else there. Thus he either has to wait until they land for rest...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Mark SashineA writer is a rogue goose. All other gees fly in a flock formation; every goose knows his place and time for honking. The rogue goose is undisciplined. He leaves the formation indiscriminately to have a look at it from aside. He roams back and forth, takes a peep at the leader, honks a little bit from behind, distracts everyone and writes on what he sees. Time passes and as he wants to return back to his place he discovers someone else there. Thus he either has to wait until they land for rest...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Mikhail

for a person who was born in Kiev ( I was born there too, although I suspect I am older than you) you seem to be rather naive. In reality those character arguments are the coverups people use to hide THEIR OWN rather malicious feeliings, fears and sometimes cold interests. Your article is good and to the point but the true honest voter who has the doubts you analyse is a very rare species nowadays.

Otherwise welcome to the site.

Mark Sashine

by Mark Sashine (54 articles, 19 quicklinks, 252 diaries, 3605 comments) on Saturday, September 6, 2008 at 2:38:25 PM
 


Mikhail Lyubansky, Ph.D., is a member of the teaching faculty in the Department of Psychology at the University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign, where he teaches Psychology of Race and Ethnicity and Theories of Psychotherapy.

His research and writing interests focus on conditions associated with changes in social identity and beliefs about race, ethnicity, and nationalism, especially in immigrant and minority populations. He is a regular contributor to edited volumes on popular cultur...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Mikhail LyubanskyMikhail Lyubansky, Ph.D., is a member of the teaching faculty in the Department of Psychology at the University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign, where he teaches Psychology of Race and Ethnicity and Theories of Psychotherapy.

His research and writing interests focus on conditions associated with changes in social identity and beliefs about race, ethnicity, and nationalism, especially in immigrant and minority populations. He is a regular contributor to edited volumes on popular cultur...

to see more of bio, click on member name

On "coverups"

That's a good point, Mark (about character arguments being coverups).  Thanks for making it.  I said as much when I argued that the "he is not patriotic enough" argument was code for "he is not white enough".  I could have made similar "coverup" points elsewhere, but I really was targeting the honestly undecided audience.  Does such a group exist?  The polls say they do, and I really have met real people that have expressed character doubts about Obama of the nature I mention.  Now, are any of them reading opednews (or the few other sites where I've posted the same piece)?  That I don't know.

Good to see another Russian-speaking immigrant on a somewhat progressive site.  I suspect there are not too many of us here.   Send me an email if you want to talk further. I'd be happy to do so.

 

by Mikhail Lyubansky (8 articles, 3 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 80 comments) on Saturday, September 6, 2008 at 6:43:36 PM
 


This quote summarizes the nature of my concerns and the content of personal experiences which stir my activism:

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement on human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves". --Paul Revere, House of Commons

Kathryn SmithThis quote summarizes the nature of my concerns and the content of personal experiences which stir my activism:

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement on human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves". --Paul Revere, House of Commons

Here's where I do and do not trust Obama, and why:

Mikhail, I respectfully disagree with Mark Sashine's statement. I thought your arguments were well thought-out, and just the fact that you are identifying common thought patterns and addressing them is one of the best activist strategies there is. I say: Kuddos!

I agree that Obama exudes good character. I sense a very good spirit in the man. And that means a lot. Lots, lots.

But there is so much more. There is one missing piece which is so important to look at, that it could change American history----IF EVERY American looked at this piece before voting or making up their minds.

That piece is: CHECK THE CONGRESSIONAL VOTING RECORD!

What raises my eyebrows and makes me distrust Obama's "change" rhetoric is the fact that he voted for the highly unconstitutional Patriot Act. TWICE!

Do you want police invading our homes and arresting us purely at their whims, delivering gag orders and five-year jail sentences just because we told someone that the FBI served us with a "terrorist" subpoena? Sorta like, Greenpeace and Food Not Bombs and others we have talked about on this forum ad nauseum (me in particular) so I won't repeat it yet again.

Doesn't this sound like former Communist Russia to you? Am I mistaken in so saying? If not, certainly like Red China?

But that is what Obama voted for. TWICE! In 2001, and again in 2006.

Now tell me, does that sound like "Change" to you?

However, there is one key matter here in deciding who to vote for. Not only did McCain vote for the Patriot act twice, he also voted for the torture and granting the President immunity from war crimes prosecution as he unilaterally determines what forms torture takes, who is to be tortured, who is to be DUBBED an "enemy combattant", etc. THIS IS NOT FUNNY.

Further, when Sen. Christopher Dodd offered his bill to Congress, "Restore teh Constitution Act", which would have restored habeas corpus to "Enemy combattant" detainees (according to ACLU attorney Ben Wizner on the Blog of Rights, MORE THAN 99% of Guantanamo detainees are innocent!) guess what McCain did? HE VOTED NO!

No rights to challenge the grounds for one's detention and having one's genitals cut with razors, even if one is perfectly innocent. No right to talk to your lawyer or even know that you have one. No right to any day in court.

That's what McCain wants, and of course, Obama had the conviction to "Just Say No".

Well, where does that leave us, as far as choices go?

For me, it's an "undecided" because.....

 a) To vote for the lesser of two evils (Obama) is to assure that the far more dangerous and evil man does not get into power (though the scales may be tipped his direction anyway, by Haliburton).

b) To vote for another person whom I implicitly do trust----Kucinich, or possibly McKinney---is to vote for someone who would restore teh Constitution and our civil liberties---and our free speech which is being eroded by post-911 Iron Curtain-like "law" ----but is also to swing the balance back to the worst of the two evils.

Should I vote my conscience, or should I vote for the lesser of two evils? To decide or not to decide, that is the question.

Perhaps I won't vote at all. But that's handing it over to McCain too.



 

by Kathryn Smith (100 articles, 2 quicklinks, 42 diaries, 442 comments) on Sunday, September 7, 2008 at 2:02:33 AM
 


Midwesterner, veteran of VietNam era naval service, I still feel an obligation to defend the Constitution against "all enemies, foreign and domestic."
John Sanchez Jr.Midwesterner, veteran of VietNam era naval service, I still feel an obligation to defend the Constitution against "all enemies, foreign and domestic."

The problem with voting your conscience.

A Kucinich would certainly work to restore America's fundamental freedoms and the rule of law based in the Constitution, and if he were elected, I would be confident that he would succeed to a large measure. The reason for that is that he is a member of the Democratic party, and would be able to avail himself of that machinery in order to govern.

That is something that is beyond a McKinney or a Nader who would, no doubt, attempt those reforms, but would have to win over the congress one vote at a time, and would have no ability to move blocs of legislators and would have no coercive power to exercise in that regard.

There is one candidate contesting this election, Barack Obama, who will move the government in that desired direction with a good expectation of success and one, John McCain, who will work to prevent it in maintaining the status quo.

However you decide, I encourage you to exercise your right and duty to vote. That exercise is necessary to improve the health of the body politic.

by John Sanchez Jr. (6 articles, 0 quicklinks, 13 diaries, 1301 comments) on Sunday, September 7, 2008 at 11:22:48 AM
 


Mikhail Lyubansky, Ph.D., is a member of the teaching faculty in the Department of Psychology at the University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign, where he teaches Psychology of Race and Ethnicity and Theories of Psychotherapy.

His research and writing interests focus on conditions associated with changes in social identity and beliefs about race, ethnicity, and nationalism, especially in immigrant and minority populations. He is a regular contributor to edited volumes on popular cultur...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Mikhail LyubanskyMikhail Lyubansky, Ph.D., is a member of the teaching faculty in the Department of Psychology at the University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign, where he teaches Psychology of Race and Ethnicity and Theories of Psychotherapy.

His research and writing interests focus on conditions associated with changes in social identity and beliefs about race, ethnicity, and nationalism, especially in immigrant and minority populations. He is a regular contributor to edited volumes on popular cultur...

to see more of bio, click on member name

A "conscience" decision

You make a good point about his voting record concerning the patriot act, and though it's somewhat tempting to dismiss it on account of political necessity, I realize that, once in the west wing, the political pressure only increases.

I've been in your shoes in past elections (and have voted for a candidate not on a major party ticket), but not this time.  Obama is not a perfect candidate (for me), but he is better than most I've seen and offers a historic opportunity for some racial healing, which this country desperately needs (I wrote about this here:  http://hubpages.com/hub/The-racial-implications-of-a-Barack-Obama-Presidency).  I'd never suggest to anyone that they should not vote their conscience, but this year the costs are so great and the potential of the Democratic candidate so unusually high that I personally am not tempted the way I usually am.

by Mikhail Lyubansky (8 articles, 3 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 80 comments) on Sunday, September 7, 2008 at 12:21:15 PM
 


A writer is a rogue goose. All other gees fly in a flock formation; every goose knows his place and time for honking. The rogue goose is undisciplined. He leaves the formation indiscriminately to have a look at it from aside. He roams back and forth, takes a peep at the leader, honks a little bit from behind, distracts everyone and writes on what he sees. Time passes and as he wants to return back to his place he discovers someone else there. Thus he either has to wait until they land for rest...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Mark SashineA writer is a rogue goose. All other gees fly in a flock formation; every goose knows his place and time for honking. The rogue goose is undisciplined. He leaves the formation indiscriminately to have a look at it from aside. He roams back and forth, takes a peep at the leader, honks a little bit from behind, distracts everyone and writes on what he sees. Time passes and as he wants to return back to his place he discovers someone else there. Thus he either has to wait until they land for rest...

to see more of bio, click on member name

To Mikhail and Kathryn

Mike,

 The people like Kathryn above are not ' skeptics'. They are desperate ( no offense, Kathryn). They  know that we are going down the tubes and the  unfortunate small roles of theirs (just vote) makes them very frustrated. Again, I am not  patronizing here: I am one of those  people.  The  actual fact that now it really matters who is  going to be a President, life and death, tells a lot about  the system being broken. If we had a normal system it would not matter who puffs the cheeks  in the White House. But now  the  decision if to support Obama or not, all things considered, is like a decision between  living and dying. Our progressive folks will line up, sorry, just because  we will have no choice. Obama has  a  very slim chance if any and it is not about the party anymore. It is about good and evil. Yes, there are only two of us here, Mike and I wrote an  article 'Russian deliberate Bushlove' about  it. You are welcome to read. I have been here for a long time.

Kathryn, please, do not consider me wrong.  Your arguments are on the money, I do not argue with them. In fact, I think, Obama was not picked up to become a President: he was picked up to shake the Demparty. But  as I said- it is about good and evil, like Saar plebiscite in 1935  when the people of Saar voted and chose to become a part of the Third Reich. Obama is a good man. That's all it is. Forget the party and look at your interests; see if the good man fits them. If yes, then vote and prey that the votes will not be fixed because most likely they will. But John Kerry said that our cause was just.  It must prevail. Our cause is just. Vote for the just cause and let our common desperation become that hurricane they talk about. Hurricane  Barack.

With that adjourn

 

by Mark Sashine (54 articles, 19 quicklinks, 252 diaries, 3605 comments) on Sunday, September 7, 2008 at 8:37:01 AM
 


Politically, I lean Libertarian. When discussing issues, I will slam Dems and/or Republicans.

Now, when it comes to really irritating me, just make an unfounded charge; I will call out whomever makes the charge if there are no facts to back it up! Another version of this is when I see something that is just plainly silly/ridiculous.

An example could be something stated which could be very easily disproved. Another example, and I see this frequently: Rather tha...

to see more of bio, click on member name

steve scheetzPolitically, I lean Libertarian. When discussing issues, I will slam Dems and/or Republicans.

Now, when it comes to really irritating me, just make an unfounded charge; I will call out whomever makes the charge if there are no facts to back it up! Another version of this is when I see something that is just plainly silly/ridiculous.

An example could be something stated which could be very easily disproved. Another example, and I see this frequently: Rather tha...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Obama, in his speech on July Second

"We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded."

 Of course most of you will defend this using whatever excuses you can come up with,  but before you all go too crazy defending this, you all need to bear in mind that the idea of a national security force, that is funded as well as our military, should be TERRIFYING to anyone who would want to live as a free person.

 

Ciao, CZ 

by steve scheetz (4 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 693 comments) on Sunday, September 7, 2008 at 8:51:25 AM
 


Retired university professor.
francineRetired university professor.

A useful article

because there are ""honestly undecided voters''; I don't think many visit this site though; if they did, chances are there would not be undecided...

Obama gets on my nerves in many ways: some of his recent positions are clear pandering to the right. I hate it when he undercuts Dems who are doing good work for him, like he did for Wesley Clark stating that being a pilot and a POW does not  specially qualify to be POTUS. I hate it when he repeats for the umptieth time that McCain's served his country with honor--that might be true but Obama should be on his own side and stop celebrating McCain's courage and character--it's McCain's job, and he is doing it very well (and often), thank you very much.

I hate it when he says children should be off limits; yes, they should be, but the only effective way to keep them off limits is not to show them off at conventions for political gains like circus animals. Obama does it, Palin does it even more, everybody does it, so either you put your children in the spotlight, or you don't, you can't have it both ways. If you don't want them to stand the heat, get them out of the kitchen.

When he preaches along the lines of ''we should be better than that'', he sounds like a naive, ineffectual teacher trying to control a class of wild, rowdy boys: he knows his preaching good behavior will get no result, but he still preaches just the same.

I absolutely hate it when he says that ''the surge has worked beyond our wildest dreams''; this is patently false, so why is he sucking up to his adversaries like that? This kowtowing to the Republicans is demeaning, it shows him as having swallowed the Republican hype on the surge hook, line and sinker, which wil be equated to ''not strong minded enough to be a leader''. He earned a degree of respect by being one of the few senators who were against the war from day one; by endorsing the bogus notion that the surge is working, he is destroying this respect.  

And finally, he does not fight back fiercely enough to really counterbalance the sledgehammer impact of the Republican's attacks. His blows are always sort of muffled; he strikes like he is afraid to hurt.  There are many weak points in McCain's CV that he could have used to great effect, but inexplicably, he didn't.

I will vote for him though, without enthusiasm or illusions, just because I think McCain is a very dangerous man--bellicose, unhinged, reckless, ignorant of Middle East politics, showing signs of senility, clearly in bad health--and I must be forgetting a few things--oh yes, Sarah Ap-palin'...

This is the worse possible choice for  a POTUS; voting for him GUARANTEES war, at least more wars than with Obama. Voting for BO is about saving thousands of innocent people from death, and that's good enough for me.

by francine (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 370 comments) on Sunday, September 7, 2008 at 8:55:46 AM
 


Former Lawyer, current Business Consultant,history buff, Christian, father of 2 sons and a supporter of democratic government.
ArchieFormer Lawyer, current Business Consultant,history buff, Christian, father of 2 sons and a supporter of democratic government.

skeptics

Excellent article. Senator Obama does not have a hard act to follow and if he can remind the voters that electing Senator McCain will result in four more years of the same he will succeed. If he wins it will mark the maturation of the American political system and in large part their society as a whole. It will pay off in spades for every American and for the US as a whole in the world. He not only brings a more people oriented governmental policy with him he has the intelligence to thwart the forces of entropy which will be arrayed against him as the Republican system built up over the last many years starts to break down.

by Archie (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1285 comments) on Sunday, September 7, 2008 at 11:18:44 AM
 


10 year Navy veteran,former Federal employee with various agencies,
Gallaher10 year Navy veteran,former Federal employee with various agencies,

More Bush?

This is not hard to disprove.

by Gallaher (2 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 797 comments) on Sunday, September 7, 2008 at 9:34:36 PM
 


Male, 50, Texas. White with white hair (for 20 years)
Write, read, and draw.
Topics include science, art, history, language, philisophy, the odd and unusual. SiFi/Goth/Lovecraft
Recovering from a medical episode that nearly killed me in 2006. Still being treated.
An autodidact and graduated High School but not college.
Not good with people. I have poor emotional intelligence.

nightgauntMale, 50, Texas. White with white hair (for 20 years)
Write, read, and draw.
Topics include science, art, history, language, philisophy, the odd and unusual. SiFi/Goth/Lovecraft
Recovering from a medical episode that nearly killed me in 2006. Still being treated.
An autodidact and graduated High School but not college.
Not good with people. I have poor emotional intelligence.

Too many problems on too many levels assail us from all side

Our gov't and society have been infiltrated and corrupted by those whose agenda is to rule over everything. Dominionism is their theonomic raison de etre but it is greed and need , by them, for power over all of us 'normals.' At the core of the cabal are psychopaths and those similar to them or support their cause. Our form of gov't assures their ability to make laws and enforce them over us. They have wrecked our form of gov't, voting system, police/military, public relations even schools where they can. We are all in dire trouble. After two sham presidential elections they have positioned two more faces for their regime. Obama is just a better 'package' for the same poison. That is even if our voting system was free and open our choices wouldn't be the best. Kucinich and Nader, for example really give change away from the empire that we are being given. Third parties are left out on purpose, for historically they were where new and different ideas came from. Not anymore if the two faces of fascism have their way and say. Obama just looks and sounds better than McCain but underneath what will actually change? There is no change in how the cabal controls the voting system so don't expect what you are told will happen when and if Obama is selected by them. They have two choices, we have none. By being close in numbers the fudge of just 1-2% is all they need do to win. Even if that isn't enough and without paper ballot recounts allowed they will 'win' again for three times in a row! Our oh so precious vote is rendered useless by them.

Unlike in Russia and China, here in the USA most people don't even know that most of what they are told is suspect by the 5 corporations that own and control 90% if all news outlets. False choice dilemma is what we have been given.

by nightgaunt (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 264 comments) on Sunday, September 7, 2008 at 12:19:50 PM
 


Well-traveled, middle-aged, mechanical engineer.
M. BennettWell-traveled, middle-aged, mechanical engineer.

BO = McSame

I dislike BO and McSame equally. There is not a nickel’s worth of difference between the two. They are both members of the same warfare/welfare party and put Israel first, not America first.

Don’t be fooled by the old “Good cop, bad cop” routine. Evil is evil whether there is an “R” of a “D” by its name.

by M. Bennett (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 85 comments) on Sunday, September 7, 2008 at 12:21:15 PM
 


An RFK democrat who this year, for the first time in 11 presidential elections, will not vote for the democratic nominee.
Kellis R. SolomonAn RFK democrat who this year, for the first time in 11 presidential elections, will not vote for the democratic nominee.

BO = McCame

Greetings,

I agree.  Obama is no less an evil than McCain, therefore, they are equal evils.   

I am confused by the remark on Israel, though.  Israel, which has 1% of the land of the middle east, is expected to give up half or more to their Arab neighbors.  There are still refugee camps from the 1967 war for the Palestinians.  Why, in all these years, has no one suggested to Lebanan or Jordan (Thans-Jordan was to be a homeland for the Palestinians before anyone thought of Israel being formed(1923)) or any of the other Arab lands to incorporate these peoples into these nations?   Oh, how could I forget--the best way to keep the middle east stirred up is to keep the Palestinian "problem" inflamed.   There can be no division of Israel when the Palestinians refuse to acknowledge the existance of Israel.    I don't like the way Israel is played by the whacko right thinking that "rapture" is on the way, but, looking at it from Israel's side, it does keep the money flowing.

by Kellis R. Solomon (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 85 comments) on Sunday, September 7, 2008 at 3:57:32 PM
 


Doug Rogers is a composer and playwright and for many years designed ladies' sweaters. He is now a student again at Empire State College in Buffalo NY.
Doug RogersDoug Rogers is a composer and playwright and for many years designed ladies' sweaters. He is now a student again at Empire State College in Buffalo NY.

Centrists are won over by principles, not pandering

I think we can boil this argument down to- McCain is worse.  Nobody who cares about the well-being of their country should tolerate more Republican mischief.  It should be self-evident but apperantly its not.

The problem is that after watching the two conventions I notice that we have a choice between nuclear power or nuclear power.  We can vote for increasing the military budget or increasing the military budget.  More war on terror or more war on terror.  Unconditional support for Israel or unconditional support for Israel.  And on down the line.  Indeed if saving our planet and our democracy hinges on wresting control from the corporations (which it does), then we've already lost.

After the New Deal progressives were at home in the Democratic party.  But in the 90's it defected to the corporations and since then actual differences between the two parties shrink each election cycle. 

So I always object whenever anyone suggests that progressives should tone it down and not rock the boat.  In fact we are in this situation precisely because progressives have lacked the courage to flex their electoral muscle.  We have to make it harder for these politicians, nice guys or bad guys.  Their feet have to be held to the fire.  When Obama ignores the issues that matter to you then he is saying he doesn't need you to win.  When you give your vote without demanding anything in return then you are throwing it away.

Clearly it will be better if Obama wins in November than McCain.  But his pro-corporate and pro-foreign policy establishment positions don't win him any centrist votes.  They only get him through the media and corporate vetting process.  The more we pull him back to progressive principles the more likely he is to win.  It may be too late.  He's already extremely compromised and people see that, both in the center and the left.  But just caving into corporate control ourselves, especially if you're not in a swing state, won't move any cause forward.

 

by Doug Rogers (12 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 97 comments) on Sunday, September 7, 2008 at 8:55:00 PM
 


10 year Navy veteran,former Federal employee with various agencies,
Gallaher10 year Navy veteran,former Federal employee with various agencies,

Skeptical about Obama

I closely watched the Obama, McCain, and Padin bios this weekend.

Nothing on Biden not a word. Why?

Even more telling was how little we know of what Obama was really doing in New York and why he left.

Why will the people he was with not talk to the press?

To be honest the time in New York sounds very fishy.

No home, living on the streets, while on drugs possibly dealing drugs?

Did he really graduate from college?

Has anyone seen his transcripts?

Why would anyone (even a black guy) with a degree from such a prestigious college have a hard time getting a job anywhere?

The best job he could find was as community organizer?

This has just left me with too many questions.

I know Harvard will accept people without checking under graduate degrees because they offered me to attend their business graduate school before I had finished my under graduate degree.

by Gallaher (2 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 797 comments) on Sunday, September 7, 2008 at 9:13:40 PM
 


Midwesterner, veteran of VietNam era naval service, I still feel an obligation to defend the Constitution against "all enemies, foreign and domestic."
John Sanchez Jr.Midwesterner, veteran of VietNam era naval service, I still feel an obligation to defend the Constitution against "all enemies, foreign and domestic."

Yes, and Harvard didn't know...

what you were doing in pursuit of your undergraduate degree. For all I know, you were stealing hubcaps and jackrolling little old ladies to support your alcoholism. As far as I know you may even have come by your nefarious practices by way of imitating Barack Obama whom you speculated might be pushing drugs in New York while he lived on the street. Further, as far as I know, Barack Obama thinks that you are a propagandist with a clearly low opinion of the intelligence of your readership.

by John Sanchez Jr. (6 articles, 0 quicklinks, 13 diaries, 1301 comments) on Monday, September 8, 2008 at 8:47:48 AM
 


10 year Navy veteran,former Federal employee with various agencies,
Gallaher10 year Navy veteran,former Federal employee with various agencies,

OK

So you can explain how someone lives in New York.

Someone admittedly on drugs that was not employed going to bars and partying.

Where was his money coming from?

He was not working.

by Gallaher (2 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 797 comments) on Monday, September 8, 2008 at 11:43:39 AM
 


10 year Navy veteran,former Federal employee with various agencies,
Gallaher10 year Navy veteran,former Federal employee with various agencies,

P.S.

I was in the military while I was in school.

I worked from the age of 16 and paid for everything whitout having my hand out.

by Gallaher (2 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 797 comments) on Monday, September 8, 2008 at 11:46:04 AM
 


Midwesterner, veteran of VietNam era naval service, I still feel an obligation to defend the Constitution against "all enemies, foreign and domestic."
John Sanchez Jr.Midwesterner, veteran of VietNam era naval service, I still feel an obligation to defend the Constitution against "all enemies, foreign and domestic."

Sure, that's you're story,...

but I haven't seen your DD214. Why should anyone who hasn't seen it take your word for it? As far as I know, you tell that story to everyone without a shred of truth or ill conscience.

I could even speculate that your presence on this site is simply that of a right wing troll being paid to plant disinformation. As far as I know, you're not making as much at it as a Rush Limbaugh would, but why not, because for all I can tell you aren't that good at it.

Moreover, as far as I know, telling lies with ridiculous speculative prefixes attached, does not give the lies or their teller any credibility whatsoever.

by John Sanchez Jr. (6 articles, 0 quicklinks, 13 diaries, 1301 comments) on Monday, September 8, 2008 at 12:53:56 PM