It's hard to think about evoting, debates and canvassing with chilling news like this.

by Rob Kall (952 articles, 4177 quicklinks, 374 diaries, 2087 comments [45 recommended, 3 rejected]) on Wednesday, Oct 8, 2008 at 1:38:38 PM

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what has been going on for some time, such as demonstrators being arrested at political conventions, from something more serious which may very well be occuring.

 The business about congressmen being threatened with martial law if they didn't pass the bailout bill is confusing. Why would the President insist on a measure which would prevent martial law if his intention was to establish it?

 Also, I think it would take much more than 3000 troops to reign in a population of over 300 million.

 That being said: I've been well aware, ever since reading Richard Ney's classic "The Wall Street Gang" (which unfortunately I believe is out-of-print) that the stock exchanges are controlled marketing operations, whereby those who literally set the prices of each and every stock ("specialists") have been allowed to trade for their own and others' accounts, creating the most outrageous conflict of interest in history. One specialist firm can (and do) set prices for over 1000 individual stocks. I remember one year the NASDAQ closed on Dec 31st at exactly 2003 or whatever new year it was, almost as an inside joke....

 So, I've been wondering why this market plunge would occur during an election year with an Republican in office. Traditionally the stock market soars under these circumstances, to make the economy look that much better for the GOP.

 But, it looks as if perhaps the President got his $100 billion, the treasury has been effectively looted, and there is still time for the Dow to drop 1000 points per day, and there be martial law declared between now and January 20th.

 But then... why aren't we hearing from people other than Naomi Wolff about this? Dennis Kucinich is in the dark? Ralph Nader? Noam Chomsky? RFK, Jr? etc.....

by Mystic Wizard (4 articles, 286 quicklinks, 64 diaries, 201 comments [14 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Oct 8, 2008 at 2:36:46 PM

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You're wondering why things aren't being contrived to make the GOP look better for the election? Simple: it's not the GOP that is behind this coup.

The two-headed corporatist party (the national Democratic and Republican parties are both deeply into the pockets of their respective corporate sponsors) is what's been used to keep us all distracted while the pieces were all being put into place. The question we're all faced with is then who is wielding the power behind the soon-to-be-throne?

John McCain kept ranting at the 'debate' against looking back at history. All the more reason to do so, as Ms. Wolf so clearly shows us. There's more driving the course of history than just the 'leaders-are-all' conventional narrative and Howard Zinn's 'popular-movements' narrative account for. Others, such as the members of Doug Coe's 'Family' non-organization, work in the shadows, misusing people's faith and lust for power to move them into positions of control like so many chessmen. All of these, and more, must be part of a comprehensive understanding of what is really happening. Recognize that much of what passes for news is contrived as distraction, and you may start to see the shape of the events that are really happening.

I don't know what we're up against either. But I'm leery enough of appearances to suspect deception even grander that what was used to convince the world that a few flimsy aluminum airframes could completely destroy the World trade Center. Don't ignore the past. There are clues. Let's dig them up and bury those who would control the world with the truth of who and what they are.

---

I write pointed political and business short stories at klurgsheld.wordpress.com 

by P. Orin Zack (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 17 comments) on Wednesday, Oct 8, 2008 at 4:07:25 PM

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as well as sex

by Rady Ananda (182 articles, 374 quicklinks, 49 diaries, 1718 comments [201 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Wednesday, Oct 8, 2008 at 4:43:33 PM

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...problem is, Naomi Wolf has alot of credibility.

This is something that, if it's a case of another "swing and a miss," that they're pulling here, her career and reputation is ruined.

The Federal Register reference I gave is SERIOUS.  Others need to read it, too.  We need to parse it and make sure that I'm not just nuttier than Cooter Brown.

by Richard Volaar (39 articles, 0 quicklinks, 151 diaries, 478 comments [63 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Oct 8, 2008 at 5:18:01 PM

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In The End of America, Wolf writes:  

"In colleges with progressive curricula, the Founders are often portrayed as 'dead white men,' whose vision was imperfect, who denied women and the poor civil rights, and who defined an African slave in America as being three-fifths of a person; old guys in wigs who wrote documents that are now dusty in language that seems to us to be either arcane or to offer sentiments that are so obvious now they have become clichés ("...life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness..."). 

"Here's what we're not taught: Those words at the time they were written were blazingly, electrifyingly subversive.  If you understand them truly now, they still are.  These men and the women who supported their work were walking further out into the unknown – betting on ordinary people's capacities – than anyone had ever walked in the history of the human race. You are not taught – and it is a disgrace that you aren't – that these men and women were radicals for liberty; hey they had a vision of equality that was a slap in the face of what the rest of their world understood to be the unchanging, God-given order of nations; and that they were willing to die to make that desperate vision into a reality for people like us, whom they would never live to see. 

"You weren't taught that the way they brought the freest nation in the world into being was by reading passionately about fledgling democracies of the past; by positioning their imaginations directly against the violent repressions they had fled; and by carefully, deliberately crafting a mechanism of checks and balances, and a bill of rights, that would protect these extreme manifestations of freedom.  The Founders set out to prove that ordinary people could be entrusted with governing themselves in a state where no one cold arbitrarily arrest them, lock them up, or torture them."

Hogwash. The Founders did not believe "ordinary people could be entrusted with governing themselves" any more than the English did.  The Founders were elites who limited the franchise to less than 5% of the population. The universal requirement for a potential voter was the possession of a certain amount of wealth. Only elites could vote. 

While pre-revolutionary women of means could vote in nine Colonies – here's something else US schools and Founderphiles do not teach:  In the heady days after defeating the English in 1783, States frantically rewrote their laws specifically disenfranchising women.  By 1807, all states had rescinded their right to vote.  After having the franchise for 143 years – from 1664-1807 (that's seven generations of women voters) – New Jersey women were disenfranchised.   
 
The first US presidential election was held in 1789.  A whopping 1.3% (38,818) of the population voted.  By 1824, the US had an estimated population of 11 million, but only 3.5% of the population voted.
 
Neither the Founders nor their sons extended the franchise beyond what the ancient Athenians did – to men of means.  To characterize what the Founders did as having walked "further out into the unknown – betting on ordinary people's capacities – than anyone had ever walked in the history of the human race" ignores reality as well as ancient Greece. 
 
So, it's hard for me to believe anything else the highly regarded Wolf would write when she continues to frame the Founders as radicals.  They were not radicals; they fought for the elevation of their personal and business interests above that of the English. 
 
They owned slaves, for pete's sake!  Slavery is so clearly the antithesis of democracy that anyone who refers to the early years of the US as a democracy – or its founders the proponents of democratic ideals has drunk the Kool-Aid. 
 
Another progressive wrote a book, What Would Jefferson Do?  Let's look at what he did do: he helped write one of the strictest slave laws in the nation!
 
Sorry, slavery and democracy and mutually exclusive.  For anyone to  frame our early foundation as a radical democracy is either willfully or blissfully ignorant.  Maybe they just wanna sell books.  I'm suggesting their attempt at "waking up" America fails because of intellectual dishonesty.   
 
If they don't even get that overt slavery and democracy are mutually exclusive, what have they to tell me about the state of affairs today?  Why should anyone listen to their conclusions when their premise is faulty? 
 
Should our revolutionary leaders be steeped in delusion?  Or have we had enough of being propagandized? 

by Rady Ananda (182 articles, 374 quicklinks, 49 diaries, 1718 comments [201 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Wednesday, Oct 8, 2008 at 7:21:55 PM

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This is what disturbs me most about academia that I haven't seen in, say, the medical professions.   Doctors back each other up.  Beat cops back each other up.

Not in the academy.  No, siree.  Gotcha Politics and treachery are very common.

Your points are well taken, Rady, but this is not a simple reference check for a journal article...this one is for keeps.

Unless you have info on Wolf taking money from the CIA as our former President did, I don't see your characterization as fair or anymore trustworthy than Wolf's -- with Wolf having alot more relevant facts on this issue in her corner.

It does not follow that sentimental hyperbole and slanted research in the intellectual history of the American colonies is directly related to shoddy research in 20th century American fascism.

It is, after all, slapping us in the face, is it not???

by Richard Volaar (39 articles, 0 quicklinks, 151 diaries, 478 comments [63 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Oct 8, 2008 at 10:37:41 PM

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Richard ~ surely you don't believe doctors don't disagree. Naomi Klein is a former Miliband Scholar at the London School of Economics. She recognizes that capitalism is supported by both major parties. The flaw in Wolf's thinking is her blind allegiance to the system, whereas it is the system which is flawed and must be changed. All the professions disagree, and debate. That's partly why the professional journals never run out of article submissions.

by Rady Ananda (182 articles, 374 quicklinks, 49 diaries, 1718 comments [201 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 12:36:18 AM

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...as a legitimate debate tactic.  Forensically, yes, but this one is about what's really true about what's going on and going down.

You belittled a fellow scholar.  That diminishes both parties.  You saw the weakness and you stuck the knife in and broke it off.  Or tried to.

Of course the professions disagree and privately voice their concerns to one another.  But I've seen them circle their wagons, too, which is something one almost never sees in the academy.

I personally believe in the abstract notion of a single, unifying truth behind all things known and unknown.  Perhaps I'm sentimental, but it sure helps me to sleep soundly at night.

Given the reality of a single absolute truth, whether known or unknown to humanity, it seems intuitively obvious to me that the "brass ring" of human thought would be in finding and learning to see how things are similar to each other, rather than in how things are different.  Difference is easier to see for a reason; yet similarities continue to just slap us in the face whether we establish the relevance of the perceived difference, or not.

The idea that a writer coming from a place of cynicism and greed so putrid that s/he would bang a drum of complete, absolute panic and despair without appropriate due diligence is something so heinous as to represent a complete assassination of character.  In other words, believe this fact or that, and the ability to believe a word written by this scholar becomes impossible.

Mistakes are correctable as are errors in judgment.  Condemnation is a bit harsh for an honest debate.  It smacks of the tactic of polarization that the neo cons use to close up society and make it inaccessible to light.

Of course if Wolf IS engaging in a cynical marketing plow in the midst of a full blown crisis, fire away.  Aim for the head and pull the trigger by all means.  We don't need the brain damage.

But I just don't get the sense that Naomi Wolf deserves to be disparaged in this way.  Doing so without some significant justification just screams biased agenda and, therefore, cheapens the character of all concerned.

Please don't take this as a sanctimonious monologue.  I've committed this error, too, and in this forum.  It's a zero-sum game.

by Richard Volaar (39 articles, 0 quicklinks, 151 diaries, 478 comments [63 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 5:51:55 AM

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.. you have one of the sharpest  minds posting here and your attention to detail and research is non-par.

Klein is heads above Wolf, but even so, where I see Wolf is being more of a populace, therefore being able to raise a red-flag and wave it with an alarm that Klein seems to be more subdued in doing, even though her message carries more prudentials.

This to me doesn't mean we have to dismiss Wolf's entire message. I believe we should take from it what is right and leave the rest alone. For what is right is worth heeding.

by Mr M (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 66 diaries, 2845 comments [654 recommended, 27 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:11:57 AM

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and thanks for the kudos, Mr. M

by Rady Ananda (182 articles, 374 quicklinks, 49 diaries, 1718 comments [201 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 4:29:51 PM

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Say what you will about how the young Republic actually functioned, but read the Constitution. In its eloquence,  it is clear that our founders at the very least gave birth to the possibility.  It is still up to us, the People, to make it real.

by B York (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 119 comments [12 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:09:00 AM

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There is no mistaking the populism at the heart of this document. Read the section on convening representation from the colonies to write a founding document ahead of time, before an aspiring tyrant can take advantage of the disorder being sown. We have that founding document as a guide and (if you will) a weapon -- at the least, as a tool.

by editnetwork (0 articles, 2 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 73 comments) on Friday, Oct 10, 2008 at 11:30:03 PM

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Well I suppose you can have your debates over which system we shuld ideally fight for with others, while sipping water in the camps, if they allow conversation -- and water (for drinking.)

Right or not, your objections do not invalidate the words and the warnings of Wolf. Not by one syllable. It is soooo hard to motivate American citizens to do anything on behalf of thier nation these days, your throwing ice water on a messenger does not help in any way an already extremely difficult task.

by alan k (12 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 36 comments [6 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Saturday, Oct 11, 2008 at 10:34:15 PM

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Anyone that has been listening to Alex Jones, prisonplanet.com, on a regular basis knew this was coming for several years. Much of what I sound off about here is simply channeling what Jone's has been saying for some time.

Wolf is right, Jones is right, several of the the other posters on this site have been right and we've been warning that it was a 50/50 chance at best that this election would even take place - now it's more like 80/20 against.

I have been screaming for some time that once we let these cretins off the hook for 9/11 that nothing, absolutely nothing, was off the board and now it's obvious - well, welcome to the party.

If this doesn't make you drop everything else you are doing and start banging on doors, handing out leaflets, talking to everyone you know and don't know, than bend bend over and grab those ankles because before this month is over they'll start the round-ups. I suspect within the week, three at the most Martial Law will be declared, either because of a total collapse of our economy or another false-flag attack or giving these cretins love for mayhem both. And if we wait that long - it's over.

This isn't a game, this is war.

Do something or die - and that's not being melodramatic - that's a GD reality.

by Mr M (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 66 diaries, 2845 comments [654 recommended, 27 rejected]) on Wednesday, Oct 8, 2008 at 3:16:29 PM

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I believe the timing will have something to do with when these derivatives get settled.  As it stands, these scheduled to start on Friday, Oct. 10th, when dealers will be holding an auction to determine the value of Lehman bonds. Another is scheduled for Oct. 23 to set the value for WaMu contracts.   

by Mrs P (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 12 comments) on Wednesday, Oct 8, 2008 at 4:25:17 PM

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Mr. M.

About eight months ago Naomi Wolf was a guest on Alex's program. You might of heard it? A very interesting interview as was her latest video, which should scare the bejesus out of each and everyone of us who understands the fascism and the tyranny enveloping this country. A very well crafted, deadly and maniacal plan devised many years ago that's now unfolding.

Naomi Wolf is indeed a very brilliant and beautiful woman who speaks Truth. However, I was a bit shocked to learn she'll be supporting Obama, who's plan it is to chase down and catch Osama Bin forgotten?  What a joke!  Right outta the Left-Right paradigm playbook.

by Munich (1 articles, 86 quicklinks, 14 diaries, 1125 comments [86 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Wednesday, Oct 8, 2008 at 8:06:07 PM

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I'd classify this as about 90% paranoia, and 10% valid concern.  There's no doubt that the world has changed since 9/11, and new laws and procedures have been put into place as a response, and some may very well be bad, but to try to imply, or flat-out state that this is part of some kind of grand plan toward fascism is just silly.  

We've always responded in extraordinary ways to extraordinary events and times.  We locked up our own citizens by the hundreds of thousands during WWII for heavens sake.  

Conveniently for Ms. Wolf, she doesn't bear any responsibility for the security of the country.  My guess is that if she did, and if Obama wins this Nov. and he does, they'll quickly understand the unfortunate necessity of things like the Patriot Act. 

Instead of blaming the actual cause of our current unrest, radical Islam and its demented desire to convert the rest of the world, Wolf and co. prefer to fantasize about the exact opposite being true.

I'll betcha she's a truther in secret. 

by Alan Williams (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 858 comments) on Wednesday, Oct 8, 2008 at 3:27:17 PM

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He's a successful prosecutor, fool.  He wants Dubya tried to MURDER.

Snap out of it!  Get a grip!

Get some cash and get some ammo.  These m-f'ers are fixing to walk off with your country or walk away from it and LEAVE.

by Richard Volaar (39 articles, 0 quicklinks, 151 diaries, 478 comments [63 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Oct 8, 2008 at 3:35:52 PM

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Earth to Alan:

Is there anyone home? Hello! Al-an.

We're talking about Naomi Wolf's brillain video, and a coup which took place, right here in America on October 1st.  Not radical Islam.

by Munich (1 articles, 86 quicklinks, 14 diaries, 1125 comments [86 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Wednesday, Oct 8, 2008 at 7:44:36 PM

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Naomi Wolf is....no Naomi Klein.

by GLloyd Rowsey (104 articles, 65 quicklinks, 60 diaries, 828 comments [4 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Oct 8, 2008 at 5:20:50 PM

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not even playing the same game

by Rady Ananda (182 articles, 374 quicklinks, 49 diaries, 1718 comments [201 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Wednesday, Oct 8, 2008 at 7:30:10 PM

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.... while I have a problem with attributing the same kind of significance to Naomi's individual "events" as she does, it has always seemed too much of a coincidence to me that this financial crisis just happened to occur right before the 2008 election. But I couldn't figure out why, since it seemed to just help Obama.

 But now (thanks to Naomi) I can see how the specialist system could just pull the bottom out of the market creating a situation so chaotic that martial law would actually seem like the responsible and appropriate response.

 The headlines in the NY Times the next day could read "Market Collapses, Martial Law Declared".  And it will seem as natural as 19 guys with boxcutters reducing the World Trade Center to rubble....

by Mystic Wizard (4 articles, 286 quicklinks, 64 diaries, 201 comments [14 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Oct 8, 2008 at 5:35:48 PM

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I think the really funny thing (funny-tragic) about all this is that if martial law is declared, it won't be because the public is out in the streets demonstrating or rioting or even being visible. 

Instead, they'll continue to watch the tube to see what's happening.

by Rady Ananda (182 articles, 374 quicklinks, 49 diaries, 1718 comments [201 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Wednesday, Oct 8, 2008 at 7:27:19 PM

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No ad hominem attacks.  Your comment has been deleted.  Do not repost it.

you totally misinterpreted my laughter, btw. 

~ Rady Ananda

by Mystic Wizard (4 articles, 286 quicklinks, 64 diaries, 201 comments [14 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 12:46:35 AM

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"ROFL: I think the really funny thing (funny-tragic)..." Because you still haven't. And for you to have the right to delete any comments made in response to your ad hominem attacks, while keeping yours posted is quite absurd. 

by Mystic Wizard (4 articles, 286 quicklinks, 64 diaries, 201 comments [14 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 8:20:21 AM

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This is what prompted my 'ROFL'

"And it will seem as natural as 19 guys with boxcutters reducing the World Trade Center to rubble...."

I was laughing at how clever you were... but if you want to perceive a compliment as an insult, you are certainly free to do so.  That does not give you the right to insult me or anyone else. 

Got it?

by Rady Ananda (182 articles, 374 quicklinks, 49 diaries, 1718 comments [201 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 10:40:41 AM

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[comment deleted] 

you still don't get it, do you? 

No ad hominem attacks.

by Mystic Wizard (4 articles, 286 quicklinks, 64 diaries, 201 comments [14 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 1:37:00 PM

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and absent humility remind me of the mirror you so object to

by Rady Ananda (182 articles, 374 quicklinks, 49 diaries, 1718 comments [201 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 2:28:31 PM

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than "you still don't get it do you?" Which is outright obnoxious.

 And will you please stop leaving all my comments which you have deleted, (which in my "analysis" have been in extremely poor editorial judgement)  but leaving just your ad hominem remarks, with my screen name attached,  posted on these sites?

 I don't seeing OpEdNews doing that with anyone else.

 That transcends ad hominem and approaches the purely sadistic, O Divine Sage.....

 Or don't you get it?

by Mystic Wizard (4 articles, 286 quicklinks, 64 diaries, 201 comments [14 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Oct 10, 2008 at 3:57:54 AM

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It was a financial coup. It was forced through and rushed and it was blackmail and the people spoke up loudly against it.

But I don't see Martial Law happening - too many ordinary people run things - the military, the police and local authorities are not going to follow orders they don't agree with, even if some shocking event happens first. We've been through this before and even the GOP has thrown Bush/Cheney under the bus. 

This activist energy is great though -  let Congress know we didn't want the bail out and want it undone - liberals and conservatives are standing together on this! Let's be aggressive and march and protest for hearings and investigations, gather evidence and seize hard drives.

We cannot charge anyone till 1-20-09 however. 

by Gustav Wynn (77 articles, 65 quicklinks, 5 diaries, 421 comments [34 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Oct 8, 2008 at 7:21:49 PM

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... it happened.

Don't kid yourself, Martial Law is very close to being declared. Congress was placed under Martial Law last week and was threatened with placing the country under it if they didn't pass this disastrous so-called "recovery bill".  And there is little if no difference between threatening Martial Law and being under it.

And if these bastards can murder 3,000 of us in broad day-light and up to now get away with it, declaring Martial Law seems almost trivial in comparison.

by Mr M (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 66 diaries, 2845 comments [654 recommended, 27 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 10:48:50 AM

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Naomi Wolf is part way there. Mr. M. has it right. All the other folks here who would disparage Naomi have it wrong. What she illustrates in her video is pretty much correct. 

Where she gets it wrong is to not condemn Both parties ( both sets of traitors... McCain and Obama - dems, repugs both). And she fails to understand or reference the underlying powers of the plutocrats, the autocratic elites. But this simply illustrates that she is the victim of her own education and upbringing. I truly believe she cannot, dares not, see beyond her underlying presuppositions. That does not make her wrong in her analysis that fascism cometh to Amerika. Only that she misattributes the underlying causes. 

Many who write here, such as Mr. M. know what those are. Others, Rady and GLloyd seem to be in the wilderness. The fact that Naomi (more so than the other Naomi) understands that fascism is now extant in America makes her worlds far ahead of Klein. Regardless of Klein’s expertise economically -- and even here, I believe Klein gets it wrong. The events are planned. Not for personal wealth per se, or mostly - human avarice is simple a variable to be accounted for or used. But for control. NWO control. Even if Ms. Wolf misattributes the cause for the fascist behaviors, she is the best spokesperson that these events are going on and what they do indicate regarding the future of America. And her video is a good initial step for getting many folks to become aware of the fascist state descending  upon us, piece by piece, every day. Just check out the 'time monks' and web bot to figure it out.

No. Regardless of any defects, this video is important for Americans to see and assimilate. Spread it. Everybody needs to know the truths she speaks. 

by richard (0 articles, 5 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 1359 comments [400 recommended, 8 rejected]) on Wednesday, Oct 8, 2008 at 8:58:46 PM

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... folks here will acknowledge that I am not a conspiracy theorist (far, FAR from it) and I often take truthers to task on elements that I find non-credible.

I am forced to be concerned about what has been done here.  I'm not ready to believe this is a coup, but I am not ready to rule it out. I am surprised Rady and others were so quick to do so. I'm not sure. It is an odd thing to do. This army unit reports up through the US Northern Command which is headquartered at Peterson Air Force Base in Colorado Springs. The Northern Command is commanded by the same Air Force General who commands NORAD, thus, they would have been part of my command if I was in my old unit. Very odd stuff. I know the kind of people who form the Air Force component of this command. An order to have the 3rd Division's 1st brigade do something improper in the US Mainland would come down through these people http://www.northcom.mil/leaders_html/index.html

I dont see Air Force NORAD people passing on that kind of order. I think it would be refused. HOWEVER, I see an Army General is the deputy commander of both NORAD and NorthCom. I have less faith in Army leadership if only because I dont know them nearly as well.

by Steven Leser (255 articles, 58 quicklinks, 38 diaries, 2147 comments [63 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Wednesday, Oct 8, 2008 at 9:24:44 PM

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"...[T]his new development, which is nothing less than a total shattering of the Posse Comitatus Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act is a troubling development. "

The Act is only shattered when the Federal troops are used to quell civil unrest (law enforcement activities) on non-Federal lands without the express consent of Congress (and I suppose the Constitution but that's what Congress is for). 

The CONUS deployment concerns me if they are used to address civil unrest inappropriately.  However, I have no concerns with the units being used in response to natural disasters or similar incidents.

by Tom Murphy (3 articles, 5 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 2103 comments [55 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Oct 8, 2008 at 11:27:09 PM

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philosophical argument regarding exactly when Posse Comitatus is shattered. Deploying a unit with the express purpose of putting down civil unrest if necessary is, at the very least, an intent to shatter Posse Comitatus. Put in legal terms, it is a conspiracy to shatter Posse Comitatus and should be considered as bad as if they had/have been put into action.

by Steven Leser (255 articles, 58 quicklinks, 38 diaries, 2147 comments [63 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 9:53:43 AM

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My intention was not to comfort anyone but rather point out the reaility.  If you're now judging people on their intentions, calling it a conspiracy when (in fact) that deployment has been quite open, then you are adopting qualities that you claim reside with the government.  This is essentially hypocrisy.

Should the situation be watched?  Yes.  Is it a violation of the Posse Comitatis Act to deployee troops domestically with a military mission?  No.  Why?  Read here - http://www.homelandsecurity.org/journal/articles/Trebilcock.htm .

by Tom Murphy (3 articles, 5 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 2103 comments [55 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:03:00 AM

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  Show me something written by John Dean on the matter and you might cause me some pause.  But not this chimpanzee.

There is absolutely NO justification for deploying, threatening to deploy or engaging the American people on their own soil using, their own military troops.  It is unAmerican and a violation of everything America stands for.

Don't even get me started about the Reagan Administration's policies and the genesis of this latest grab of power by these fascist nutjobs.

We need to consider rolling back every national security directive put in place since 1980, perhaps every piece of legislation regarding banking and commerce since 1913-1917. 

Neo cons are termites.

by Richard Volaar (39 articles, 0 quicklinks, 151 diaries, 478 comments [63 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:57:37 AM

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CO of the 1st of the 3rd, they were posted and on duty during the Republican National Convention. That is enough to give this old Navyman serious pause... There is a post to this effect in this sequence of OEN, for reference.

by Jack Harrington (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 675 comments [70 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 9:42:26 PM

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"Is there anyone home? Hello! Al-an. We're talking about Naomi Wolf's brillain video, and a coup which took place, right here in America on October 1st. Not radical Islam." -- Munich

"About eight months ago Naomi Wolf was a guest on Alex's program. You might of heard it? A very interesting interview as was her latest video, which should scare the bejesus out of each and everyone of us who understands the fascism and the tyranny enveloping this country. A very well crafted, deadly and maniacal plan devised many years ago that's now unfolding."

by Alan Williams (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 858 comments) on Wednesday, Oct 8, 2008 at 9:28:27 PM

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by this move.

If we need more people with special skills to be able to respond to a terrorist or natural disaster, train the SWAT teams that already exist in every major city. We don't need 3rd division 1st brigade for that. What kind of terrorist or natural disaster will require the response of tanks, howitzers and attack helicopters? An army combat brigade has elements with all of those pieces in spades.

by Steven Leser (255 articles, 58 quicklinks, 38 diaries, 2147 comments [63 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Wednesday, Oct 8, 2008 at 9:35:00 PM

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Well put Steven: Why not train the SWAT teams that already exist in every major city? And God forbid another "event" should occur, they're already telling us they'll use tanks? How many tanks? Dam! That'd be some event. Very, very perplexing. Stay vigilant, and hope and pray for the best. That's about all we have left. Tyranny gone wild! If I could note, in this latest video Naomi Wolf spoke about 100 billion dollars of the latest "bailout" Bill which George Bush can use at his own discretion and without any accountability?

by Munich (1 articles, 86 quicklinks, 14 diaries, 1125 comments [86 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Wednesday, Oct 8, 2008 at 10:12:28 PM

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of "radical Islam"?  It appears the FBI has fingered an American scientist as the guilty party, Bruce Ivans, who "acted alone" and lately committed suicide.  Case closed.  It appears our government falsely accused Saddam Hussein and "radical Islam" for those same attacks, which led us to war.  It appears you haven't been paying attention, Allan.  As a side note, the FBI has not listed Osama bin Laden as wanted for the attacks of 9/11.  Probably you haven't noticed that, either.

by Richard McGinn (1 articles, 1 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 78 comments) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 8:28:53 AM

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by Munich (1 articles, 86 quicklinks, 14 diaries, 1125 comments [86 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Wednesday, Oct 8, 2008 at 9:51:11 PM

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Ms. Wolf is guilty of the same things she accuses the government of - creating a sense of heightened alert when the threat is minimal to non-existent.  And she's doing so for capitalism's sake - of all things unholy!

Why?  Hey, she has a new book "Give Me Liberty..." (published September 2008) wherein she explains her theory or "battle plan".  And gosh!  There was a coup in America on 10/01/08 (plus or minus a few days) with the deployment of the 3rd ID in CONUS!  How convenient was this coup - for book sales!

While I disagree with the deploying of Federal troops for the purpose of controlling civil unrest, I'm not about to claim that the act represents a coup.

by Tom Murphy (3 articles, 5 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 2103 comments [55 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Oct 8, 2008 at 10:53:44 PM

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I read another Naomi Wolf article on Informationclearinghouse (linked below) but found in the comment section the near perfect compliment to her ten stages to fascism. The commentator was Ian Watson. He cataloged the massive buildup of the materials of enforcing the abrupt change from a Republic to a fascist state. The modular cells of mobile prisons should have been included.

Come on, now, folks, what else could all these things be for?

Watson writes:

source:  http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20975.htm

by Robert Arend (24 articles, 30 quicklinks, 21 diaries, 240 comments [22 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Wednesday, Oct 8, 2008 at 11:09:54 PM

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"I'm not ready to believe this is a coup, but I am not ready to rule it out. I am surprised Rady and others were so quick to do so."   

I'm at a loss as to how you could contrive that from what I wrote.  I'm convinced the coup distinctly occurred on December 12, 2000, and has been continually solidified ever since – by both major parties.  I've written this many times in the past.  New information, however, leads me to believe it subtly occurred in 1913, with the passage of the Federal Reserve Act. 

by Rady Ananda (182 articles, 374 quicklinks, 49 diaries, 1718 comments [201 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Wednesday, Oct 8, 2008 at 11:50:59 PM

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It seemed from the way you were discounting what Naomi Wolf said that you didnt believe anything about what the 'deployment' of the 3rd division's 1st brigade could mean.

by Steven Leser (255 articles, 58 quicklinks, 38 diaries, 2147 comments [63 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 8:30:19 PM

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I'm not sure exactly what Richard means when he claims GLoyd and I "are in the wilderness."   If he means I'm in the wilderness with Michael Ruppert, then I agree.  Or, even if he means I'm in the wilderness because I hold a minority view of our Founders, I also agree.   

Richard points out another fundamental flaw in Wolf's worldview – that she refuses to hold the duopoly equally responsible for the coup, "and she fails to understand or reference the underlying power of the plutocrats."  I totally agree with him.  

Where we disagree is that he would promote the work of someone who doesn't get the underlying problem – but who can only recognize the result.  Most of us recognize the US is now fascist - numerous recent examples abound based on the 14 points identified by Dr. Laurence Britt.   Even Paul Craig Roberts (former Assistant Treasury Secretary under Reagan) recently said:  

"The control over the financial system that the bailout would give to the executive branch would mean, in effect, state capitalism or fascism."

If a would-be spokesperson can't recognize how we got here, how the hell is she going to lead us out?   No, I would never promote the work of someone who just doesn't get it.    

That'd be like choosing between doctors – both recognize the disease (say, bubonic plague), but one thinks it's caused by too much sex and the other thinks it's caused by a rat's flea.  If you promote the doctor who thinks too much sex is causing the plague, then the solution will be to abstain.  We have a false solution, because the doctor failed to understand the underlying cause.  The bubonic plague will persist for as long as doctors misunderstand the underlying cause.   

But if you promote the doctor who nearly correctly adduced the plague was caused by a rat's flea (but actually a bacterium on the flea) – who then suggests that we clean up our garbage and store it away from human habitat, then the plague will end.  

Most of us  recognize the state we're in – not all of us know why or how we got here. Those who theorize wrongly can never help.  Those who theorize correctly as to how we got here, like Naomi Klein, that this is planned (referring now to economics) are the only ones who can suggest a successful strategy out of this mess. 

And then Richard baffles me when he states:

Even if Ms. Wolf misattributes the cause for the fascist behaviors, she is the best spokesperson that these events are going on and what they do indicate regarding the future of America.

Why?  Why is she the best spokesperson?  Just because a 7-year-old recognizes that night follows day, would you have her teach Copernican theory?  What if she thinks night follows day because the sun orbits the earth?  Would you promote space travel through that person?  I hope not.  Cuz then the spaceship would never reach its target.  

And that's my main point.  We the People have a target – we're not going to reach it if our would-be spokespeople are telling the masses misinformation as to how we got here, and therefore, suggest solutions based on a faulty premise. 

by Rady Ananda (182 articles, 374 quicklinks, 49 diaries, 1718 comments [201 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 12:25:35 AM

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I wonder about those that can't or won't see the pattern, who say there couldn't be a conspiracy, that "it can't happen here". Does your understanding of history go back no further than a few weeks?

If so, let's go over the last few weeks.

It wasn't long ago that bush was saying things about how well our economy was, "just a few rough patches, folks, nothing to worry about - go shopping", and than it comes out they were drawing-up this so-called "recovery plan" at the same time they were telling us those lies.

How long ago was it that bush talked about an "ownership" society", lowered the bar and unbuckled restraints, "everyone should own a home and fulfill that American Dream" was the beat, I was surprised it wasn't presented as a commercial, "Yes, folks - NO MONEY DOWN!!! - you heard me NO MONEY DOWN!!! Lines are open and operators are standing by to take your order. - Don't delay - call today!"

Sounded good, didn't it?

So what is the difference between a long range business plan and a conspiracy?

Than all of a sudden, just before every one's hopes start to rise before an election, what do we get? "Well, if it wasn't for all those dumb-asses that bought homes they couldn't afford ...", as those that gave the loans in front of us drawn-up using invisible ink, walk off with all the money and land, and a little something extra - our country, or what is left of it. Because this is just the beginning. As we speak, there is no more gold left in this country to print gold coins.

So we know one thing is coming, a depression beyond anything this country has ever experienced, and that includes the "Great" one. This alone is enough to cause mass riots when it finally dawns on the walking dead, but wait until the food and power run out and those troops hit the streets.

And all of this is happening in the exact same fashion as it did in the fascist states of Italy and Germany, as Wolf points out, yet, there are those that are still saying, it can't happen here.

Psst! That's how it happened there, because there were people saying the same thing there as those that are saying it here now - not only can it happen here - it is happening as we speak.

You can pretend it won't happen. Just like you can pretend torture isn't happening, we don't have secret prisons, police can't come into your home without warrants, there aren't hundreds of FEMA camps, police aren't training with our military, planes can just vanish into thin air, groups like Bilderberg, Consul of 300, Illuminati, Bohemia Grove don't mean much. or the fact that our Federal Reserve Bank isn't federal at all and that foreign world bankers print our money and this is only a rough patch and after Obama get's in office, we'll all calm down and everything will be okay again.

Baffles my mind. Nothing to see hear folks, just fear-mongering.  And I just mentioned a fraction of the things that are happening.

C. Rice a few days ago came out and admitted she chaired meetings on torture.

Think about that. Think about the fact that it barely made the news. Think about all the things you hear now that just a few years ago would have not just made the news, but would have caused heads to roll and governments to fall.

"Yeah, we torture - so what?" It might as well have been a story about her new shoes.

So now we have Wolf, that may not have all the credibility in the world, but certainly enough to point out the obvious, things that we all can see as obvious if we just had the courage to admit it.

Leaders aren't suppose to get on national TV and scream "PANIC!" That in itself causes panic. And there are those that think this isn't calculated.

Congress was put under Martial Law last week - barely made the news.

They threatened many in congress with Martial Law being called nationality if this so-called recovery plan wasn't pasted and that if impeachment proceedings were started bush would attack Iran - barely made the news - even the alternative news.

Now let's go back, let's look at and wonder why our government 50 years ago put poison in our water under the guise that it defeats tooth decay, which has been proven to be a complete lie.

Let's wonder why they tell us we have the best medical care in the world, when 30 years ago cancer had a 30 to 1 ratio and today it's 2 to 1.

Let's wonder why Chem-trails are being sprayed and what it is they're spraying on us?

Look up "soft kill weapons", and wonder no more.

It's not a conspiracy, it's a mass murder of biblical proportions and it's being committed by our government and others in plain sight.

And because these cretins never figured on the speed in which their evil plans would get discovered because of the Internet they are pressing their agenda, all the plugs are pulled and we're starting to swirl the drain.

But we have nothing to worry about - right folks - just someone trying to sell a few books.

by Mr M (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 66 diaries, 2845 comments [654 recommended, 27 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 12:29:32 AM

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because she does not recognize the complicity of both major parties, because she does not recognize the monetary system needs to be overturned, she can never provide us with any real solutions. but she can sell books... and you have to admit, Mr. M, fear sells.

by Rady Ananda (182 articles, 374 quicklinks, 49 diaries, 1718 comments [201 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 12:48:46 AM

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Obama seems to have character superior to any leader ever to set foot in this ring of fire.  For that reason, I have to support him.  But it will be the LAST time I place my values at risk trying to save my country "on the cheap."

Clinton really left me feeling burned.  I thought he had what it took to lead us out of this hole in the ground, too.  Given Joe Klein's _Primary Colors_ revelations, I can see that I was not alone in that deception.

Obama seems to me to be a completely different animal.  The man is extraordinary.  One last time, I have to try.

Screw the two party system.  Screw the corporate oligarchy.   Focus on the fact that one man of good character with enough power can, and will, do the right thing and turn this ship completely around.

We'll see.  All I can say is that this is the best chance we've got.  Our minor parties and candidates need a strong presence in Congress before we try to make a run at the Whitehouse.  Alas, if Obama turns out to be just another hack in the power game as he seems poised to be, I'm done.  I'm toast.  I'll need to find a new home because this one is full of termites.

by Richard Volaar (39 articles, 0 quicklinks, 151 diaries, 478 comments [63 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 6:16:22 AM

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... because how you can believe in Obama after the has already proved himself to be a liar and covers for mass murders is beyond me.

You don't have to wait to see if Obama is a false leader, he started proving that the day after he got control of the nomination when he backed FISA up to his promoting this treasonous so-called "recovery bill".

After all, over 90% of the people were against this bill, and he promoted it with vigor, so how in the hell can you go against the will of the people and in any measure call yourself a representative of those people?

If there is any more room for a knife in your back, get ready for one more.

by Mr M (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 66 diaries, 2845 comments [654 recommended, 27 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 10:38:47 AM

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Denial.

Better living through denial.

I didn't flunk out of college...using my new program, I never even went to college!

See?

by Richard Volaar (39 articles, 0 quicklinks, 151 diaries, 478 comments [63 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 12:00:29 PM

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He went along because he cannot blow the election. He has to steer the Titanic (his campaign) to safety before he can begin infusing some long-lost values back into our system.

by Elly Faden (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 6 diaries, 25 comments) on Sunday, Oct 12, 2008 at 1:06:37 AM

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... but that doesn't make much of what Wolf says wrong.

And yes she has a romantic vision of our long ago history. The closest I've read about about our past was Zinn's The People's History of America, and even there I'm certain we could find one or more facts wrong, it is certain books we grew-up with in school were more fantasy than fiction. So Wolf may be a victim of a romantic notion of our past and falsely believe in a present day savior in Obama, that doesn't mean we can dismiss the entirety of what she's saying.

You picked one thing out of her book that I can't disagree with, that doesn't make the rest of The End of America wrong. The 10 steps are real and can be seen clearly to be happening.

We do have a government that is our enemy and pathological sociopaths at it's top hell bent on creating a fascist dictatorship. We do have a noose being tightened around our necks.

And what Wolf is saying here is that not only is that noose being tightened around our necks is that the executioner has his hand on the lever and is half-way to yanking that trap-door under our feet open. And I can't disagree with her. Even the humorous rag I write and cartoon for has been warned to "cool it" and government employees have been witnessed gathering-up our papers and throwing them in dumpsters. And that does make me fearful, and fear does indeed make one act.

But it would be better to act on the fears Wolf is feeling than those of bush&co.

After all, what be the worst that could happen? If indeed bush was arrested, or even threatened to and it made him slow down, that would be a good thing, wouldn't it?

So, so what if she's trying to sell some books, romanticizing our past and believes in a false leader if indeed the rest of what she is saying gets people to act?

Hell, if I had to outright lie to bring these bastards down I'd do it in a second. but no one has to lie to do that, all one has to do is point to what is really happening.

We do have a congress that was put under Martial Law and was threatened with placing the nation under it if they didn't pass this disastrous so-called "recovery bill'. And there is scant difference between threatening Martial Law and having it.

And we don't know what's in this damn bill, but what we do know is scary enough.

We do know that bush recently extended the "government emergency act" we've been under since 9/11 that was set to expire and that he does now have his own private army.

No one has yet to be able to read PD 51 in it's entirety, but what we have been able to read is also scary enough.

And I can't believe that these cretins are done with us yet. Even though handing over power to either McCain or Obama would do little to stop their march to a NWO I can't believe that they'll do it quietly, if at all. These bastards are just too full of themselves.

So I'd rather heed Wolf's warnings than dismiss them because of a few misgivings on her part. For the alternative would be indeed be deadly.

by Mr M (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 66 diaries, 2845 comments [654 recommended, 27 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 9:58:21 AM

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yes - the bulk of what she says is true and accurate... I posted more on this below.

And, really... I shouldn't begrudge people earning a living.  You're right.  I think that might be coming from my reaction to her End of America, after having spent money on it - to find out if t's just another Left vs Right paradigm rather than elites vs. people paradigm.  It's so anti-Bush and so silent on Dem complicity that it makes me puke.

Much - MUCH - of what she says I totally agree with.  Here's one passage from End of America relevant to our work right now:

"Blogging has to lead the way, because this is the access point for citizen journalism.  But bloggers must take their their impact far more seriously, becoming warriors for truth and accountability: Citizens have to start to produce reliable samizdat.  [clandestine copying and distribution of government-suppressed literature or other media]

"Opinion is important, but opinion alone is totally inadequate when the ground of truth itself is under assault.  Bloggers must become rigorous and fearless documentarians and reporters - not just to critique the news, but also to generate the news.  Citizens in every venue must now apply to their work the accuracy and accountability that news editors have traditionally expected of their writers and researchers. 

"The locus of the power of truth must be identified not in major news outlets but in you.  You - not 'they' - must take responsibility for educating your fellow citizens."

by Rady Ananda (182 articles, 374 quicklinks, 49 diaries, 1718 comments [201 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 10:48:15 AM

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Or at least a partial one ... ; - )

by Mr M (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 66 diaries, 2845 comments [654 recommended, 27 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:22:07 AM

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Mr M: ...I'd write a heckuva lot more. But thanks for contributing tidbytes of what I also know to be true! Did you ever read "Gods of Eden" by William Bramley? Or "Cosmic Conspiracy" by Stan Deyo? I've been studying the NWO, secret societies, TLC, CFR, etc., for over 20 years. I can tell you've done your homework as well. Glad to know there's others out there who think like I do. While comforting, it certainly doesn't solve our problems, does it?

by Cinderfella (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 248 comments [95 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 3:46:04 AM

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... on those books. I haven't read them but certainly will. One can't learn enough about the workings of these cretins. The more one discovers the better and you can't seem to ever find out enough. Their history and plans are enormous and more intriguing than any fiction.

by Mr M (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 66 diaries, 2845 comments [654 recommended, 27 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 10:10:54 AM

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Fanny May and Freddie Mac, dismantling barriers for first time home buyers with "bad" credit history

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW9viaJatpo&feature=related

by Munich (1 articles, 86 quicklinks, 14 diaries, 1125 comments [86 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 1:38:21 AM

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Iran and Hezzbollah, giving this criminal "administration" the excuse to attack Iran, Lebanon and Syria.

by dotmafia (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 127 comments [8 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 4:23:49 AM

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I may not have clearly explained myself. I, like you, target at least in part, the Fed creation as the coup beginning .... although it really has earlier origins. 

My concern, however, is that a catalyst must raise the consciousness of the largest number of people possible to the immediate threat. Nuance can be added as the process goes along. Naomi Wolf has the power to raise consciousness in many folks ... a power I don't have. A power I also believe you don't have. Her message may not be perfect (of course it is not) but the 'alarm' must be spread. From village and valley to mountaintop. And while it is 'fear' based, the source, the cause of the fear is real and looming -- unlike the fake fear underpinning the fake war on terror. And the equally fake fear about Islamofascism (Alan's much harped-upon bugaboo). 

If you can think of an alternative, equally effective, method to catalyze the masses, I'd be happy to help promote it. It may be the limitation of my mind, of my imagination, but I haven't thought of any particularly viable alternatives right now. Any ideas?

by richard (0 articles, 5 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 1359 comments [400 recommended, 8 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 6:11:45 AM

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I also agree with Rady in what she believes, except that she imposes too high a standard on potential friends and allies.

by Richard McGinn (1 articles, 1 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 78 comments) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 8:58:01 AM

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I'm being too harsh on Wolf's failings.  We do need people whose voices are much more amplified (read better positioned) than ours to get our message heard.

I'm sure both of you - as well informed as you are - have also read the histories of demagogues.  They are as dangerous as the dictators we reject - because they lead the UNINFORMED away from a positive solution, usually just to maintain their own power.

We are so vulnerable right now to "the enemy within" - those people who come from our ranks but who would lead us to false solutions. 

So, in addition to my contempt for the doupoly - I hold an equal contempt for any false leaders.   We have all the power - we do not have to accept spokespeople who don't get it...

All that being said, I have to agree that people ought to recognize the danger we face ... and Wolf lays that it with confirmed facts.

I guess I'd personally rather have a leader who doesn't use fearmongering to motivate us... but perhaps that is the only emotion that will motivate most people.  It doesn't motivate me - it makes me want to go watch TV and ignore what's being said. 

Someone who lays out the facts and then talks from a place of power (and this is what we're gonna do about it) - instead of fear - is my kind of leader.

by Rady Ananda (182 articles, 374 quicklinks, 49 diaries, 1718 comments [201 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 10:36:31 AM

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...is that brawn always wins.  Stupid people rule because intellectuals tend to isolate and alienate themselves from the herd.  So intellectuals get to play the, "I told you so," role, which really isn't a productive use of precious time.

Had a handful of people identified Clint Murchison and LBJ as the vermin that they were and neutralized them, we wouldn't be in the position we are presently in.  JFK would have certainly dismantled the national security state and, right along with it, every ponsi scheme these fascist pigs have been playing since 1898.

by Richard Volaar (39 articles, 0 quicklinks, 151 diaries, 478 comments [63 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 12:09:48 PM

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I think the bailout was the Republicans' last gasp at moving money to the wealthy, knowing that they will probably lose the White House and Congressional control after all of this crap. Of course, they are trying to rig the election, too, but McCain is not really helping the power elite at this moment. I think they gave up the idea that they could get reelected around Katrina, when Bush went golfing, and people really started to notice the lack of leadership. The demagogues simply believed that as long as the Iraq war goes on, they will still be raking it in, they stopped caring about getting reelected, and staying in Iraq for 100 years is their strongest dream for the future.

by Elly Faden (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 6 diaries, 25 comments) on Sunday, Oct 12, 2008 at 1:19:40 AM

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Some 7 years ago I bought off the street a copy of the much talked about "King Alfred Plan" which was a collection of Executive Orders and mass concentration camps in the midwest. Among Black Nationalist it had much truth to it because it outlined how the government would take down threatening leaders whether through assassination or covert stuff. I'm going somewhere with this so stay with me. Marcus Garvey who brought together over 1 miillion African Americans during the depression eras was deported for still highly debated reasons, Malcolm X was assassinated, Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated, Huey P. Newton was destroyed along with his party by drugs and cointellpro.

Seeing Naomi's video brought one thing to my mind. Are they planning on assassinating Obama too. I think they know if something happened to Obama it will be 1968 all over again except worse. The King Alfred Plan depicts plans for such mass disruption and justification for marshall law.

I'm just putting my thoughts out here. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, because I want to be wrong on this one. 

by Sharon Roach (15 articles, 0 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 184 comments [2 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 8:41:19 AM

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I hope you're wrong, too... I often feel like a tiny flea on the knee of an elephant trying to describe the elephant.  On one hand, there is no doubt that Obama has inspired hope worldwide - his popularity is immense.

Yet he clearly votes with the elites (gutting FISA, $850 billion Wall Street bailout, promise to spend more money on the Middle East AND cut social services in the US)....

So, on the one hand I think he's safe physically because he's clearly part of the power structure and votes to maintain this clearly flawed and failed system.

On the other hand, maybe there's a power struggle at the top among elites. If Obama is elected - only these elites benefit; whereas if McCain is elected only those elites benefit.  Or, more likely, if Obama is elected the top elites earn less off, steal less from us.  Maybe that power struggle will resort to assassination politics to have its way.

At the very top (said the flea on the knee of the elephant), we see a man willing to shoot a friend in the face.  With that level of psychopathy, is anyone who sits in Congress safe? 

Instead of having any real answers, I use my QP 'thoughts become things' mantra and envision safety and peace and restoration of democracy.

by Rady Ananda (182 articles, 374 quicklinks, 49 diaries, 1718 comments [201 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:29:46 AM

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I just watched the video and here is what I got out of it. We better move quickly or ------we need to arrest "them" and look at their computers---panic, conspiracy, no time left, my book, hurry, no time left. I also googled Wolf and among other credits she visualized Jesus. The thought then occured to me, that if you move far enough left, and far enough right, maybe you meet. Hitler was right, Stalin was left but if you were shot, what is the difference. It is obvious Naomi Wolf is smart, as well as educated but she is a bit like the UFO gang. They show video, expert witnesses, and I am convinced of UFO's but I am still waiting for the green men. Who am I to go out and arrest? What happens then? Are we to go togeather or is she going wait and see? About the time she was born,I saw the same thing going on with people burning draft cards, flags, etc. and it helped with ending the Vietnam War but, like the tea, that was then and maybe she is just trying to return to a time she has read about but missed living. I sort of feel that way about the mountain men----I should have been there. I do not doubt for a minute the evil inetent as it is out there but who and where is not easy to ID. Oh, Bush and Cheney they are easy and if they can be brought before the Hague, I say GREAT, but just like the Bush boys are using their usual scare tactics-----maybe Wolf is crying 'wolf' as well.

by virginius "gin" arnold (18 articles, 7 quicklinks, 47 diaries, 516 comments [22 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 9:45:07 AM

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... and indeed her belief in Obama is more than puzzling. But as I pointed out in other posts here, one thing wrong doesn't cancel out the whole.

Not all of us here agree on all our points or are even right about them, but I do believe most of us can agree that we have a country that is being run not by us, but by a system and people that think of themselves first and foremost and view us as a problem rather than their concern.

How we go about changing that is why we have these discussions, which of course is a good thing, for as we nuance any wrong solutions will tend to be discarded.

by Mr M (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 66 diaries, 2845 comments [654 recommended, 27 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 10:59:28 AM

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I checked out the 3 page document Paulson sent to Congress and nowhere in it is any reference to $100 billion for exclusive use by President Bush. The 1st Brigade has been put on duty in the US, but it is unclear when it was decided to do that or why.  This could have been decided months ago in response to growing concerns of another terrorist attack in Washington.  This administration has nightmares about another attack on their watch.  Concluding this is evidence of a desire to impose Marshall Law or surround the capital building to intimidate legislators is an exaggeration. Threatening legislators with Marshall law will only work if legislators knuckle under and do what they are told instead of doing their job. There are 535 Congress members in Washington. Anyone believe they are so frightened by this administration they would knuckle under to threats? The Bush administration has NO credibility in their own party. There is no question the present administration is incompetent.  So incompetent I doubt Bush is capable of taking over this country by military force or maintaining control if he did.  That would require too much co-ordination and too much co-dependence on too many other people. With a public approval rating at 25% that won't ever happen. It is important to keep an open mind, but keep it open to all possibilities not just one. The problem starts when you are pulled into a particular train of thought and not looking at alternative explanations of the information. As people ignore evidence and manipulate facts they build conspiracy theories that sound plausible, but on close examination are simply outlandish "theories". Conspiracy theorists insert information as fact when it doesn't exist and they ignore information that contradicts their theory in order to provide a conspiracy that seems consistent and supportive of their theory.

by Peter Wedlund (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 211 comments [7 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 1:09:17 PM

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Apparently, it was reworked considerably

by Rady Ananda (182 articles, 374 quicklinks, 49 diaries, 1718 comments [201 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 2:22:08 PM

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For the first time in my life, I saw swarms of soldiers roaming through the airport. I thought it was because the country was on lock-down because of the convention. I DON'T think anyone wants another assassination. However, I think those of us who lived through all of them in the 60's are skeptical. Fascinating times.

by Elly Faden (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 6 diaries, 25 comments) on Sunday, Oct 12, 2008 at 1:26:23 AM

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It seems some people look at Ms Wolf's person and not her ideas or proof. Some attack what she says as self serving hype for her own aggrandizement and not her substance. Must she go into debt to be taken seriously? Where is she wrong? I demand from her detractors to do so. Line by line, item by item not vague generalities not consistent with what she posits. When the storm troops are marching down the street the how should you react? Discuss whether the person telling you it is happening and urging you to see for yourself or do you disagree with her premise but attack her for how she speaks or what she seems to represent? One must look at the substance of what she says and proof she shows not some disagreement with her interpretation of our founding of the country. That is disingenuous. Most of our founders were white men who believed they should rule. Hence our Electoral College to make sure it would happen. Thomas Paine was an exception and he was vilified in this country up until the 1890's! We should do what they wouldn't and have done with the end of slavery and emancipation of women. More still needs to be done. We are in process to backslide to a new dark ages. I do have misgivings in her, and Kucinich's support of Obama who is no liberal. He wants a national police force which is to me dangerous as anything. When the shout of the "British are coming!" Came during the Revolutionary War what should you have done? How should we react now? Ignore it as hyperbole and go back to deciding whether we should pay the food or gas bill? My estimation is that a very small percentage even know about her and her message much less those fewer still who will recognize it and heed it. By the way I have come to the conclusion that the Dominionists are the nucleus of our problems. They learned from the previous failed coup in 1934 by the USA national socialist re fascist industrialists and God fearing millionaires who chose the wrong general to lead their private army against president Roosvelt. Since 1980 they have been bringing down our republic piecemeal to this day. They took over the Republican and Democratic parties, the three branches of gov't, military the corporate press (CMSM)and have been working to take over all the elements of our society including financial. The 17 spheres or kingdoms as they call it. Their final phase is to eventually take over the world and convert or kill or enslave all of humanity and prepare the earth for their god's return and not before. They won't be intimidated but if they fear for their security they can act brutally. So be careful when confronting them. Naomi Wolf is right, they need to be stopped and stopped now or we shall all pay.

by nightgaunt (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 448 comments [27 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 1:56:45 PM

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To the earlier comment that "they" could train the SWAT teams.....

Well, I was fortunate to attend a lecture this week by two attorneys who were among those called "Legal Observers"  (they show up at events which may have peaceful demonstrations against the war, etc) and these two men showed private videos that they had made of the happenings outside the Democratic and Republican conventions - that never made the regular news channels.  Not only are the SWAT teams already trained to deal with anyone who shows up to protest, they did many other things, like (1) Pre-emptively entering the homes (once through an attic) of those whom they suspected MIGHT show up to demonstrate, (2) Forced demonstrators who were just waiting to walk, to sit down on the streets and bridges and then showering them with rubber bullets and pepper spray, (3) Refusing to let those who were already "permitted" to march, to do so, and (4) Arresting members of our news media who had cameras in hand and large badges hanging around their necks identifying who they were. 

The attorneys, both of whom volunteer to be observers and only occasionally get any pay whatsoever for defending someone in such cases, both stated flatly that police are now being trained to be pre-emptive in their attacks.  They also shared with us that the Republican Convention was forced by the City to purchase a $3-million insurance policy that would protect any police officer who might be accused of abusive language or behavior.  They had the documentation to show us.  WOW!  How can we not believe it's here? 

by im4unity (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 54 comments) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 2:43:57 PM

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It seems you agreed and then disagreed and then agreed but disagreed.

The point I was making with the SWAT teams is that the troops of the 3rd Division's 1st Brigade are not needed for any of the missions to which they are being domestically assigned and that SWAT is more than capable of dealing with a terrorist attack or close enough to be trained to do so.

I am not sure how your comment fits with that. It seems you were remarking that in one or more instances, a SWAT team behaved inappropriately. OK, does that mean you prefer to let 3rd Division, 1st Brigade loose in American cities?

by Steven Leser (255 articles, 58 quicklinks, 38 diaries, 2147 comments [63 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 8:36:48 PM

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Just a bunch of out of context "evidence" and agenda-driven off the mark conclusions. And we thought the Republicans were the ones out to scare you into voting for them.

"Naomi Wolf Is Blathering On About Fascism Again ..... .......First of all, it's worth noting that this speculation is based on complete and utter horsecrap. Here's an article from the Colorado Springs Gazette on the First Brigade of the Third Infantry Division....."

"We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded." -- Barack Obama

by Alan Williams (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 858 comments) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 2:48:13 PM

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from a rag called "RightWingNews" on a progressive website? Do you think anyone here will care what "RightWingNews" has to say?

by Steven Leser (255 articles, 58 quicklinks, 38 diaries, 2147 comments [63 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 8:38:36 PM

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Alan:

barred by federal law...from being used on U.S. soil for domestic law enforcement."

What, with everything that has been going on, causes you to feel that worrying about the 1st Brigade and 3rd Infantry placements is just silly stuff'n nonsense?  They have been put in place not just for natural emergencies but for crowd control.   This is a piece of a much larger picture.  Can you seriously not see that? Or are you trying to keep crowd control yourself?   

Rady:

Thanks for enlightening me/us in greater detail as to precisely where you were/are coming from.  Yes, I agree that the threat is not coming from just the right-left dynamic, but from the privileged-vs.-the people, in a couple of words.  And that includes plutocrats from the left as well.  (Think the likes of LBJ making the Vietnam War happen.)  But Naomi can reach a lot of people that neither you nor I nor others in this community can; and so she is doing a lot of good, in her detailed wakeup call.  She may not have all the pieces right.  But first things first.

And no, Obama is not the answer either.  He's involved with the same crowd.  But he has a quality of leadership that could well help him extricate himself from his advisers.  And in any event, is certainly a better bet than McCain/Palin.  Again: First things first.

As for the current financial situation: I like the position of the folks behind the video detailing the political assassination of Eliot Spitzer, for threatening the best-laid plans of these, er, mice and men.  Yes, Alan, Democrats were involved in the Fanny and Freddie fiascos.  And, Bush kept a cleanup from going down - which would have put a crink in those best-laid plans.

You DO know that Bill and Bush Sr. were peas in a criminal pod in the drug scene run through Mena, don't know??  That 'the fix' is in from the top of both parties???

It's time for a very big broom.  As Rady implies.  

(But Rady; really: the Founders had a keen eye on this sort of thing, too.  They DO deserve a lot of credit.  Especially for their time and place.  But that's another blog.)

by kibitzer2 (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 49 comments) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 5:58:33 PM

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yeah, we should probably more fully discuss the whole Founders thing. I'd like to have that kind of discussion with anyone who can debate without insulting each other.... kinda hard in an open forum where anyone with a computer can jump in and gum up the process.

I gotta say - I understand now - but I was so surprised to have to be defending my radical left politics (me! of all people!)... lol, but I see that I did not make myself clear at first.

by Rady Ananda (182 articles, 374 quicklinks, 49 diaries, 1718 comments [201 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Thursday, Oct 9, 2008 at 8:26:47 PM

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What the HELL have we (the govt) been spending homeland security funds on, if not this? (And is this not also touched on in the video -- homeland security funds to local communities? Where do you go to see the budget reports on this secret funding?) Every penny spent training police on riot control is another penny not being spent to know what is inside incoming containers at our seaports.

by editnetwork (0 articles, 2 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 73 comments) on Friday, Oct 10, 2008 at 11:40:16 PM

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This was in answer to Williams followed by Leser followed by Munich, far above.

by editnetwork (0 articles, 2 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 73 comments) on Friday, Oct 10, 2008 at 11:43:17 PM

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