This pulls a lot of what's going on together.

It's hard to think about evoting, debates and canvassing with chilling news like this.

by Rob Kall (869 articles, 4014 quicklinks, 345 diaries, 1846 comments) on Wednesday, October 8, 2008 at 1:38:38 PM
 

It's difficult to seperate...

what has been going on for some time, such as demonstrators being arrested at political conventions, from something more serious which may very well be occuring.

 The business about congressmen being threatened with martial law if they didn't pass the bailout bill is confusing. Why would the President insist on a measure which would prevent martial law if his intention was to establish it?

 Also, I think it would take much more than 3000 troops to reign in a population of over 300 million.

 That being said: I've been well aware, ever since reading Richard Ney's classic "The Wall Street Gang" (which unfortunately I believe is out-of-print) that the stock exchanges are controlled marketing operations, whereby those who literally set the prices of each and every stock ("specialists") have been allowed to trade for their own and others' accounts, creating the most outrageous conflict of interest in history. One specialist firm can (and do) set prices for over 1000 individual stocks. I remember one year the NASDAQ closed on Dec 31st at exactly 2003 or whatever new year it was, almost as an inside joke....

 So, I've been wondering why this market plunge would occur during an election year with an Republican in office. Traditionally the stock market soars under these circumstances, to make the economy look that much better for the GOP.

 But, it looks as if perhaps the President got his $100 billion, the treasury has been effectively looted, and there is still time for the Dow to drop 1000 points per day, and there be martial law declared between now and January 20th.

 But then... why aren't we hearing from people other than Naomi Wolff about this? Dennis Kucinich is in the dark? Ralph Nader? Noam Chomsky? RFK, Jr? etc.....

by Mystic Wizard (2 articles, 178 quicklinks, 25 diaries, 94 comments) on Wednesday, October 8, 2008 at 2:36:46 PM
 

Think Bigger; this coup is for WORLD domination

You're wondering why things aren't being contrived to make the GOP look better for the election? Simple: it's not the GOP that is behind this coup.

The two-headed corporatist party (the national Democratic and Republican parties are both deeply into the pockets of their respective corporate sponsors) is what's been used to keep us all distracted while the pieces were all being put into place. The question we're all faced with is then who is wielding the power behind the soon-to-be-throne?

John McCain kept ranting at the 'debate' against looking back at history. All the more reason to do so, as Ms. Wolf so clearly shows us. There's more driving the course of history than just the 'leaders-are-all' conventional narrative and Howard Zinn's 'popular-movements' narrative account for. Others, such as the members of Doug Coe's 'Family' non-organization, work in the shadows, misusing people's faith and lust for power to move them into positions of control like so many chessmen. All of these, and more, must be part of a comprehensive understanding of what is really happening. Recognize that much of what passes for news is contrived as distraction, and you may start to see the shape of the events that are really happening.

I don't know what we're up against either. But I'm leery enough of appearances to suspect deception even grander that what was used to convince the world that a few flimsy aluminum airframes could completely destroy the World trade Center. Don't ignore the past. There are clues. Let's dig them up and bury those who would control the world with the truth of who and what they are.

---

I write pointed political and business short stories at klurgsheld.wordpress.com 

by P. Orin Zack (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 16 comments) on Wednesday, October 8, 2008 at 4:07:25 PM
 

fearmongering sells

as well as sex

by Rady Ananda (128 articles, 290 quicklinks, 37 diaries, 1130 comments) on Wednesday, October 8, 2008 at 4:43:33 PM
 

That Occurred To Me, Too, Rady...

...problem is, Naomi Wolf has alot of credibility.

This is something that, if it's a case of another "swing and a miss," that they're pulling here, her career and reputation is ruined.

The Federal Register reference I gave is SERIOUS.  Others need to read it, too.  We need to parse it and make sure that I'm not just nuttier than Cooter Brown.

by Richard Volaar (24 articles, 0 quicklinks, 117 diaries, 369 comments) on Wednesday, October 8, 2008 at 5:18:01 PM
 

In "The End of America," Wolf writes:

In The End of America, Wolf writes:  

"In colleges with progressive curricula, the Founders are often portrayed as 'dead white men,' whose vision was imperfect, who denied women and the poor civil rights, and who defined an African slave in America as being three-fifths of a person; old guys in wigs who wrote documents that are now dusty in language that seems to us to be either arcane or to offer sentiments that are so obvious now they have become clichés ("...life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness..."). 

"Here's what we're not taught: Those words at the time they were written were blazingly, electrifyingly subversive.  If you understand them truly now, they still are.  These men and the women who supported their work were walking further out into the unknown – betting on ordinary people's capacities – than anyone had ever walked in the history of the human race. You are not taught – and it is a disgrace that you aren't – that these men and women were radicals for liberty; hey they had a vision of equality that was a slap in the face of what the rest of their world understood to be the unchanging, God-given order of nations; and that they were willing to die to make that desperate vision into a reality for people like us, whom they would never live to see. 

"You weren't taught that the way they brought the freest nation in the world into being was by reading passionately about fledgling democracies of the past; by positioning their imaginations directly against the violent repressions they had fled; and by carefully, deliberately crafting a mechanism of checks and balances, and a bill of rights, that would protect these extreme manifestations of freedom.  The Founders set out to prove that ordinary people could be entrusted with governing themselves in a state where no one cold arbitrarily arrest them, lock them up, or torture them."

Hogwash. The Founders did not believe "ordinary people could be entrusted with governing themselves" any more than the English did.  The Founders were elites who limited the franchise to less than 5% of the population. The universal requirement for a potential voter was the possession of a certain amount of wealth. Only elites could vote. 

While pre-revolutionary women of means could vote in nine Colonies – here's something else US schools and Founderphiles do not teach:  In the heady days after defeating the English in 1783, States frantically rewrote their laws specifically disenfranchising women.  By 1807, all states had rescinded their right to vote.  After having the franchise for 143 years – from 1664-1807 (that's seven generations of women voters) – New Jersey women were disenfranchised.   
 
The first US presidential election was held in 1789.  A whopping 1.3% (38,818) of the population voted.  By 1824, the US had an estimated population of 11 million, but only 3.5% of the population voted.
 
Neither the Founders nor their sons extended the franchise beyond what the ancient Athenians did – to men of means.  To characterize what the Founders did as having walked "further out into the unknown – betting on ordinary people's capacities – than anyone had ever walked in the history of the human race" ignores reality as well as ancient Greece. 
 
So, it's hard for me to believe anything else the highly regarded Wolf would write when she continues to frame the Founders as radicals.  They were not radicals; they fought for the elevation of their personal and business interests above that of the English. 
 
They owned slaves, for pete's sake!  Slavery is so clearly the antithesis of democracy that anyone who refers to the early years of the US as a democracy – or its founders the proponents of democratic ideals has drunk the Kool-Aid. 
 
Another progressive wrote a book, What Would Jefferson Do?  Let's look at what he did do: he helped write one of the strictest slave laws in the nation!
 
Sorry, slavery and democracy and mutually exclusive.  For anyone to  frame our early foundation as a radical democracy is either willfully or blissfully ignorant.  Maybe they just wanna sell books.  I'm suggesting their attempt at "waking up" America fails because of intellectual dishonesty.   
 
If they don't even get that overt slavery and democracy are mutually exclusive, what have they to tell me about the state of affairs today?  Why should anyone listen to their conclusions when their premise is faulty? 
 
Should our revolutionary leaders be steeped in delusion?  Or have we had enough of being propagandized? 

by Rady Ananda (128 articles, 290 quicklinks, 37 diaries, 1130 comments) on Wednesday, October 8, 2008 at 7:21:55 PM
 

So Not All Rhodes Scholars Are to be Taken Seriously??

This is what disturbs me most about academia that I haven't seen in, say, the medical professions.   Doctors back each other up.  Beat cops back each other up.

Not in the academy.  No, siree.  Gotcha Politics and treachery are very common.

Your points are well taken, Rady, but this is not a simple reference check for a journal article...this one is for keeps.

Unless you have info on Wolf taking money from the CIA as our former President did, I don't see your characterization as fair or anymore trustworthy than Wolf's -- with Wolf having alot more relevant facts on this issue in her corner.

It does not follow that sentimental hyperbole and slanted research in the intellectual history of the American colonies is directly related to shoddy research in 20th century American fascism.

It is, after all, slapping us in the face, is it not???

by Richard Volaar (24 articles, 0 quicklinks, 117 diaries, 369 comments) on Wednesday, October 8, 2008 at 10:37:41 PM
 

it's true - scholars debate each other

Richard ~ surely you don't believe doctors don't disagree.

Naomi Klein is a former Miliband Scholar at the London School of Economics.

She recognizes that capitalism is supported by both major parties.

The flaw in Wolf's thinking is her blind allegiance to the system, whereas it is the system which is flawed and must be changed.

All the professions disagree, and debate. That's partly why the professional journals never run out of article submissions.

by Rady Ananda (128 articles, 290 quicklinks, 37 diaries, 1130 comments) on Thursday, October 9, 2008 at 12:36:18 AM
 

But I Don't See Your Stinging Rebuke...

...as a legitimate debate tactic.  Forensically, yes, but this one is about what's really true about what's going on and going down.

You belittled a fellow scholar.  That diminishes both parties.  You saw the weakness and you stuck the knife in and broke it off.  Or tried to.

Of course the professions disagree and privately voice their concerns to one another.  But I've seen them circle their wagons, too, which is something one almost never sees in the academy.

I personally believe in the abstract notion of a single, unifying truth behind all things known and unknown.  Perhaps I'm sentimental, but it sure helps me to sleep soundly at night.

Given the reality of a single absolute truth, whether known or unknown to humanity, it seems intuitively obvious to me that the "brass ring" of human thought would be in finding and learning to see how things are similar to each other, rather than in how things are different.  Difference is easier to see for a reason; yet similarities continue to just slap us in the face whether we establish the relevance of the perceived difference, or not.

The idea that a writer coming from a place of cynicism and greed so putrid that s/he would bang a drum of complete, absolute panic and despair without appropriate due diligence is something so heinous as to represent a complete assassination of character.  In other words, believe this fact or that, and the ability to believe a word written by this scholar becomes impossible.

Mistakes are correctable as are errors in judgment.  Condemnation is a bit harsh for an honest debate.  It smacks of the tactic of polarization that the neo cons use to close up society and make it inaccessible to light.

Of course if Wolf IS engaging in a cynical marketing plow in the midst of a full blown crisis, fire away.  Aim for the head and pull the trigger by all means.  We don't need the brain damage.

But I just don't get the sense that Naomi Wolf deserves to be disparaged in this way.  Doing so without some significant justification just screams biased agenda and, therefore, cheapens the character of all concerned.

Please don't take this as a sanctimonious monologue.  I've committed this error, too, and in this forum.  It's a zero-sum game.

by Richard Volaar (24 articles, 0 quicklinks, 117 diaries, 369 comments) on Thursday, October 9, 2008 at 5:51:55 AM
 

Rady, again, I agree with you, as I often do ...

.. you have one of the sharpest  minds posting here and your attention to detail and research is non-par.

Klein is heads above Wolf, but even so, where I see Wolf is being more of a populace, therefore being able to raise a red-flag and wave it with an alarm that Klein seems to be more subdued in doing, even though her message carries more prudentials.

This to me doesn't mean we have to dismiss Wolf's entire message. I believe we should take from it what is right and leave the rest alone. For what is right is worth heeding.

by Mr M (4 articles, 0 quicklinks, 20 diaries, 1781 comments) on Thursday, October 9, 2008 at 11:11:57 AM
 

agreed

and thanks for the kudos, Mr. M

by Rady Ananda (128 articles, 290 quicklinks, 37 diaries, 1130 comments) on Thursday, October 9, 2008 at 4:29:51 PM
 

wake up

 

Say what you will about how the young Republic actually functioned, but read the Constitution. In its eloquence,  it is clear that our founders at the very least gave birth to the possibility.  It is still up to us, the People, to make it real.

by B York (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 103 comments) on Thursday, October 9, 2008 at 11:09:00 AM
 

Paine's "Common Sense" - galvanized many in a few months

There is no mistaking the populism at the heart of this document. Read the section on convening representation from the colonies to write a founding document ahead of time, before an aspiring tyrant can take advantage of the disorder being sown. We have that founding document as a guide and (if you will) a weapon -- at the least, as a tool.

by editnetwork (0 articles, 1 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 66 comments) on Friday, October 10, 2008 at 11:30:03 PM
 

If it wasn't nit-picking before, it IS now...

Well I suppose you can have your debates over which system we shuld ideally fight for with others, while sipping water in the camps, if they allow conversation -- and water (for drinking.)

Right or not, your objections do not invalidate the words and the warnings of Wolf. Not by one syllable. It is soooo hard to motivate American citizens to do anything on behalf of thier nation these days, your throwing ice water on a messenger does not help in any way an already extremely difficult task.

Could it be that in *your* plan, you and your friends wanted to be in charge? Time's up. What goes, goes with whomever is available. Pick a side.

by alan k (12 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 34 comments) on Saturday, October 11, 2008 at 10:34:15 PM
 

All of a sudden Alex Jones doesn't sound so crazy ...

Anyone that has been listening to Alex Jones, prisonplanet.com, on a regular basis knew this was coming for several years. Much of what I sound off about here is simply channeling what Jone's has been saying for some time.

Wolf is right, Jones is right, several of the the other posters on this site have been right and we've been warning that it was a 50/50 chance at best that this election would even take place - now it's more like 80/20 against.

I have been screaming for some time that once we let these cretins off the hook for 9/11 that nothing, absolutely nothing, was off the board and now it's obvious - well, welcome to the party.

If this doesn't make you drop everything else you are doing and start banging on doors, handing out leaflets, talking to everyone you know and don't know, than bend bend over and grab those ankles because before this month is over they'll start the round-ups. I suspect within the week, three at the most Martial Law will be declared, either because of a total collapse of our economy or another false-flag attack or giving these cretins love for mayhem both. And if we wait that long - it's over.

This isn't a game, this is war.

Do something or die - and that's not being melodramatic - that's a GD reality.

by Mr M (4 articles, 0 quicklinks, 20 diaries, 1781 comments) on Wednesday, October 8, 2008 at 3:16:29 PM
 

It's all about the derivatives

I believe the timing will have something to do with when these derivatives get settled.  As it stands, these scheduled to start on Friday, Oct. 10th, when dealers will be holding an auction to determine the value of Lehman bonds. Another is scheduled for Oct. 23 to set the value for WaMu contracts.   

by P Miller (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 10 comments) on Wednesday, October 8, 2008 at 4:25:17 PM
 

Re: Naomi Wolf Must Watch Video

Mr. M.

About eight months ago Naomi Wolf was a guest on Alex's program. You might of heard it? A very interesting interview as was her latest video, which should scare the bejesus out of each and everyone of us who understands the fascism and the tyranny enveloping this country. A very well crafted, deadly and maniacal plan devised many years ago that's now unfolding.

Naomi Wolf is indeed a very brilliant and beautiful woman who speaks Truth. However, I was a bit shocked to learn she'll be supporting Obama, who's plan it is to chase down and catch Osama Bin forgotten?  What a joke!  Right outta the Left-Right paradigm playbook.

by Munich (0 articles, 74 quicklinks, 13 diaries, 922 comments) on Wednesday, October 8, 2008 at 8:06:07 PM
 

paranoid much?

I'd classify this as about 90% paranoia, and 10% valid concern.  There's no doubt that the world has changed since 9/11, and new laws and procedures have been put into place as a response, and some may very well be bad, but to try to imply, or flat-out state that this is part of some kind of grand plan toward fascism is just silly.  

We've always responded in extraordinary ways to extraordinary events and times.  We locked up our own citizens by the hundreds of thousands during WWII for heavens sake.  

Conveniently for Ms. Wolf, she doesn't bear any responsibility for the security of the country.  My guess is that if she did, and if Obama wins this Nov. and he does, they'll quickly understand the unfortunate necessity of things like the Patriot Act. 

Instead of blaming the actual cause of our current unrest, radical Islam and its demented desire to convert the rest of the world, Wolf and co. prefer to fantasize about the exact opposite being true.

I'll betcha she's a truther in secret. 

by Alan Williams (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 723 comments) on Wednesday, October 8, 2008 at 3:27:17 PM
 

So Vincent Bugliosi Is A Crank??

He's a successful prosecutor, fool.  He wants Dubya tried to MURDER.

Snap out of it!  Get a grip!

Get some cash and get some ammo.  These m-f'ers are fixing to walk off with your country or walk away from it and LEAVE.

by Richard Volaar (24 articles, 0 quicklinks, 117 diaries, 369 comments) on Wednesday, October 8, 2008 at 3:35:52 PM
 

Re: Naomi Wolf Must Watch Video:

Earth to Alan:

Is there anyone home? Hello! Al-an.

We're talking about Naomi Wolf's brillain video, and a coup which took place, right here in America on October 1st.  Not radical Islam.

by Munich (0 articles, 74 quicklinks, 13 diaries, 922 comments) on Wednesday, October 8, 2008 at 7:44:36 PM
 

Wow.

Naomi Wolf is....no Naomi Klein.

by GLloyd Rowsey (55 articles, 4 quicklinks, 29 diaries, 400 comments) on Wednesday, October 8, 2008 at 5:20:50 PM
 

not even in the same league

not even playing the same game

by Rady Ananda (128 articles, 290 quicklinks, 37 diaries, 1130 comments) on Wednesday, October 8, 2008 at 7:30:10 PM