Is America Salvagable From Ourselves

From an outside viewer it appears the answer is NO; not until the election process, and ballot counting goes back to paper ballots or at least a system to double check the votes.

The current system of electronic voting with no ability to double check the votes is open to fraud.

From all the stories of the past two elections fraud is front and center.

Do something America the World is Watching.

by Rolland Miller (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 127 comments) on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 at 1:19:36 PM
 

Rolland

If all of the faulty election processes were corrected, would it really matter in the final outcome?

So long as America remains firmly divided at near the 50% mark, can we continue to peacefully co-exist?

by Mike Folkerth (120 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 566 comments) on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 at 1:38:01 PM
 

US in between

Per the genuis of John O'Hara we know that US is  functioning between the two limits:

1)Honest work for Honest pay

2)I am honest until proven otherwise.

Whenever the second prevails we go nuts. Whenever the first prevails- we   do the   right thing.

To promote the #1 there is only one way- cultivate people who appreciate that #1 more than  #2. How?  There is only one root cause-our school system. It must be national. It must have ONE standard. And it must be funded from federal tax. The problem we have now is the product of the new generation of people who were brought up by the current school system. Those are  the fruits. They turned up   to be poisonous.  90% of our leadership on all stages and on all locations are not just ass- holes. They are aggressive ignorant idiots, half- humans, totally lacking basic human qualities ( those which were supposed to be taught in family and schools) and  fully clueless regarding decency, honesty and especially- self- evaluation. That's what we have. And they are successful. That's even scarier.  New school system must change the very criteria of success so that SHAME ( the forgotten word) would be applied not only to adultery in the newspapers.

by Mark Sashine (55 articles, 19 quicklinks, 256 diaries, 3705 comments) on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 at 1:51:22 PM
 

Saving Ourselves

I just don't know how you get people to care.  I believe the majority of Americans are not informed enough to know where they stand.  I don't believe that we are separated 50/50 and am not sure I buy any of the so-called "polls."  I mean, after all, no one ever asks me - well, except for Rob Kall.  I think that at least 75% of us share the same morals and/or values.

I believe Americans are consumers, unless they are directly affected, losing a job or having a healthcare crisis, they just don't care enough to even discuss it and are more willing to accept all the misinformation.  Granted, there are a few on both sides with strong opinions formed by at least some knowledge, but I think these are the fringes of the debate.  If you could actually inform people, I think it would be a completely different story. 

It seems to me that, after impeachment of the criminals running our country, the major focus in this country should be media reform.   There are too many people being manipulated by the commercial process of the so-called news and information.

by Judy Ramsey (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 87 comments) on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 at 3:14:22 PM
 

It Breaks My Heart

Mike,

I am a 70 year old retired US Navy Chief Petty Officer who served from the mid 50's to the mid 70's.  I fought in the Bright and Shining Lie time.  Politics had no meaning for me then and even though I voted, I didn't discuss politics or religion as those were personal and taboo subjects that didn't promote teamwork or esprit.  I spent my entire career away from CONUS and over 17 years were spent in Asia.  When I came back in 1970, I was assigned to duty in Pearl Harbor HI to "rehab" me to the western or American ways.  I found that the country had changed to the point that I no longer wanted to be a citizen any longer and after retirement, I immigrated to Tahiti, where I make my home today and where I am honored by holding French Nationality and Tahitian Citizenship.  

I still hold the Constitution and the Bill Of Rights very close to my heart and believe in all that they stand for.  I have tried all my life to live according to the meanings of these honorable truths.  These documents are on the same level as the Magna Carta,which, your government today has taken away from all of you...

At present, I am in the United States, providing care for a aged mother who will live in her home for however much time she has left on this earth.  When she passes, I will return to my family in Tahiti and probably never set foot on US soil again.  I now live in a society that doesn't think racially, or divisively.  It's what you can provide to society and to the island that you live on that count, your religion, creed, color or politics really do not matter for the most part.  Everyone helps each other, and that is not only in times of need.  We know that ecology is terribly important as if you foul your island you are dead.  I have found the "Shangri-la" that I had been searching for all my life.  I do not have a feeling of being "minoritized" in any way shape or form.  

My wife, and children are Polynesian (Tahitian) and my grandchildren also.  They do not have american citizenship and never wanted it...  They have visited here for a half a dozen times, but are always anxious to return home to be with family and friends and their way of life.

When I first returned here to take care of my mother, I thought that I had walked into a modern Fascist state, and still believe that I have..  I am sorry to say that the only reason I keep my citizenship here is to take care of mom, when she is gone, my last act upon leaving the country of my birth will be to deposit my American Passport in the trash can on my way out the gate....

It breaks my heart to see just how low the country of my birth has fallen.  To be a witness of the loss of all the freedoms that I still hold dear to my heart. Before anyone starts looking at me as a subversive or a radical, you should stop and realize that there are thousands just like me living around the world as they also cannot stomach what has become of our republic.  I don't think you will last as a democratic republic for the next 10 years, your people are not educated well enough to govern themselves and you have already fallen into authoritarian rule with very close to half of the citizens wanting that type of government.  I was born a freeman, and I will die a free man.  If that happens in the USA, I want to be returned home and even though the government would give my wife a flag for my service, I no longer want to be buried under the stars and stripes..

Just this old chief's 2¢

by maheanuu (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1 comments) on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 at 3:25:07 PM
 

the Informed vs. the Uninformed

Seems to me it's not so much Rep. vs. Dem. as those who read & believe Internet news vs. those who don't read Internet news and wouldn't if they could,  because a) they believe what they see on TV and b) they believe that stuff on the Internet is just so much "conspiracy theory," which is probably easy for them to believe when they haven't been reading it themselves.

by Jill Herendeen (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 141 comments) on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 at 5:39:34 PM
 

maheanuu

I remember being discharged from the Navy in late 1967 and thinking, "what the heck happened when I was gone?" Like yourself, I left but returned. I lived and worked in Sweden for a time (there was a girl involved, go figure) and found that there were worse places than home when it came to freedom, or I should say, a lack there of.

You said, "your people are not educated well enough to govern themselves and you have already fallen into authoritarian rule with very close to half of the citizens wanting that type of government. I was born a freeman, and I will die a free man."

When I said we were about 50/50 (voting shows this to be accurate), that is exactly what I was talking about. Half the people can't imagine living under McCain and the other half feel the same about Obama.

The U.S. is well on our way to a deep recession if not depression. The growing differences in our population will be quite evident as unemployment and diminishing home values continue their predictable march.

Enjoy Tahiti

by Mike Folkerth (120 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 566 comments) on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 at 6:15:54 PM
 

Jill,

There is certainly truth in what you say regarding a lack of knowledge. Most people believe any rumor or sound bite that benefits them personally.

Our underlying economy is based on a mathematically impossible model of exponential growth in a finite world, in other words, a pyramid scheme of sorts. As our economy predictably fails, Democrats will blame Republicans and vise-versa. I'm not sure that we can survive what is about to occur.

As far as evidence of our deep divisions, the past elections demonstrate that quite clearly, about 50/50. That worked fine when the false economy was still working, but we will soon be at different time and place.

by Mike Folkerth (120 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 566 comments) on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 at 6:36:08 PM
 

We'll find out

If the half of us that wants what they have had for the last eight years gets what they want, the world will not last. Nuclear Armageddon will be inevitable, because they will not stop driving toward it, just as they have been doing.

But I don't think half of us want that. I think 20% do. The George W. Bush 20-Percenters who think the U.S. can do no wrong and should go to war with anyone who resists anything we tell them to do. The ones who believe that "authority" is only achieved at the barrel of a gun, and whoever has the biggest guns is the authority.

Don't take that the wrong way, as I am a firm believer that the 2nd Amendment acknowledges an individual right to keep and bear arms. I'm talking about the state. That's the protection that the people once had against the state - then the state got bigger guns.

Whereas the people once had authority over the government, the government now holds all the authority, and the 20-Percenters think that's the way it should be. Internally and internationally.

And if they win, I want no part of that New America.

by JC Garrett (40 articles, 65 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 604 comments) on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 at 10:26:02 PM
 

A New Political Party Program... DEMOCRACY for the PEOPLE!

http://www.peopleforanewsociety.org/

Read your OpEd post. Please consider thoughtfully the concepts contained in the above site. We view the PFANS program as a viable alternative to our present economic and political institutions,. weigh the comparative democracy content in both. We are working hard to get this program onto the national political table for wide discussion throughout our society. Thus far, we have been hampered by the corporate media, national as well as local..., but we have had a modicum of success wherever

public forums are available. I live in NJ, but we have made some widespread contact with interested citizens in Massachusetts, ..., and I have been invited to take part in several debates s, on the Cape, where the major party reps will be pushing their Obama and McCain cliques, while I will be contrasting the major party positions with needed democratic institutions which can only be implemented through our current ballot processes which, as you know, are subject to our electorate majority.

Democracy is the PFANS central premise. However arises the common folklore about the U.S. not being a DEMOCRASCY, rather, it is a REPUBLIChttp://www.peopleforanewsociety.org/, does not obviate the FACT that a REPUBLIC can also operate as a DEMOCRACY..., as is the construct in the PFANS model.

We, as people in civic and in our socially necessary economic work places, have been excluded from real

Decision making empowerment which is a prerequisite if we are to have the freedom to use our necessary social institutions to build what we all want..., a peaceful and prosperous society in tune with ourselves and our global neighbors. Capitalism and "political" government have been obstacles which prevent exercise of the principles of democracy. Our one vote every two, four and six years does not do it!

The axion: Democracy is not a spectator sport," is undeniable,

Your post in the OPEd site indicates your respect for DEMOCRACY , and its "Power to the People" content, are in agreement with the PFANS advocacy. If I am off track, and I have misread you, please clarify..., or, simply ignore this intro. Your silence will confirm your steadfast requirement that capitalism is the system we must continue to use, despite its anti social mechanisms which have plagued our society 's stability since the days when its social contradictions prevent from serving our society's needs and wants without producing all the economic and societal chaos we have experiencedsince the early days of the 20th Century.

A new political party whose program is based on a genuine democracy is the only way for us to go forward. No need to repeat all the past calamities which this system had produced.

Wally...

by Wally (5 articles, 0 quicklinks, 4 diaries, 14 comments) on Thursday, August 14, 2008 at 7:28:55 AM
 

JC

If you are correct then only 20% of the vote will go to McCain. However, Obama is nearly as destructive, he simply wears a different costume.

There are 535 members of Congress who are absolutely culpable in all that has transpired. In many ways, Congress holds more blame than Bush as Congress swore to represent the people, state by state. What a laugh.

I find that contempt for government is also reaching new lows. If we should be fortunate enough for our citizens to place the blame squarely at the feet of those who are leading, rather than choosing political sides, we may actually have a slim chance of holding the empire together. But I don't think so.

Thanks for the comment.

by Mike Folkerth (120 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 566 comments) on Thursday, August 14, 2008 at 8:02:10 AM
 

Wally

In many ways, when slavery was abolished, the Middle Class took their place. The Middle Class chose to be enslaved to debt, requiring constant labor toiling for the same masters that had released the physical chains.

"America, land of the free" apparently does not include freedom from debt. The U.S. economic model is compounding-debt-capitalism. By virtue of the compounding interest charged by the Federal Reserve, our monetary system is at direct odds with our physical/energy system as one is infinite while the other remains finite.

However, with the math skills that most Americans possess, there is no possibility of that secret getting out.

Thanks for the post, please read my article "Choosing Sides; Who Would You Pick" at kingofsimple.com it goes directly to your ideas.

by Mike Folkerth (120 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 566 comments) on Thursday, August 14, 2008 at 8:21:41 AM
 

Address the system, not its effects..

Capitalism is THE problem.  The wages system returns to our labor but one fourth of the actual goods and services produced for csociety's needs and want.  Such a ration is a guarantee for wage workers (the nation's majaority electorate) to be forced into debts simply to have ACCESS to NEEDS AND WANTS.

The ante bellum history also shows this disparity, whether the worker was a chattel slave or a so-called "Free" worker in the North. 

 Obviously, you do not fault capitalism.  Nor do you recognize our complete subjugation to corproate sautocracy and the undemocractic, dictatorial political state.

No comment on ...    http://www.peopleforanewsociety.org/    speaks vloumes. You, Ron and the Progressives..., all perfect together..., not for We, the People..., but for the same ol', same ol'.

No time to waste on this site... There's a nation of oppressed people, our majority wage working citizens, who operate wll our socially needed industries and services, the ONLY citizen body capable of transforming our society to one of an economic democracy... who, once organized along lines which empower We, the People, to make decisions in all matters that affect our lives..., can legally and peacefull make it happen. Idealistic? Impossible? Life in a genuine democracy an unreal vision?

 It's the only rationale concept out there ..., our only lasting alternative.

Reforms have been with ue since the Inustrial Revolution..., and we're still in the economic and political quagmire always endured by our ancestors.  

Bye,bye !!!! 

by Wally (5 articles, 0 quicklinks, 4 diaries, 14 comments) on Sunday, August 17, 2008 at 12:22:35 PM