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Tag(s): American Facism; American Foreign Policy; American Presidents; Atrocities; Conflict; Democracy; Detainees; Fear; Government; Propaganda; (more...) Torture; Torture; Torture; Torture AntiTorture Legislation (less...)
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June 27, 2008 at 10:34:37

Headlined on 6/27/08:
Have Americans Lost Thier Collective Minds? Torture Is OK???

by William Cormier Page 1 of 2 page(s)

www.opednews.com

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The issue I'm speaking of is torture, a matter that we as a nation have frowned-upon since the beginning of this great democracy. We are co-signatures against torture when we signed the resolution for the Geneva convention, and as a society, to know that "44% of Americans favor torture for terrorist suspects"- is disheartening and proof that Bush's propaganda machine and the mechanics of "selling fear"- have been successful in the United States. It's time for people to tune-out Faux News and other Mainstream News outlets that publish the fear tactics of the White House and take a look into your own conscience and understand the implications of what advocating torture does to our reputation as a nation, the effects it will have on our own troops, and the moral and ethical consequences of allowing fear to overtake our common sense!

Poll: 44% of Americans favor torture for terrorist suspects

By Nick Juliano, Tuesday, 24 June 2008

Majority disapprove of torture, 1 in 10 favor in any instance

A new poll of citizens' attitudes about torture in 19 nations finds Americans among the most accepting of the practice. Although a slight majority say torture should be universally prohibited, 44 percent think torture of terrorist suspects should be allowed, and more than one in 10 think torture should generally be allowed.

The findings of the WorldPublicOpinion.org poll put the United States alongside countries like Russia, Egypt and the Ukraine and lagging far behind allies like Great Britain, Spain and France in how its citizens view torture.

The poll found 53 percent of Americans believed all torture should be prohibited; the average in all 19 countries polled was 57 percent. MUCH MORE

As much as I despise John McCain, unless he has flip-flopped on that issue too, he was strongly against torture being used by the United States. Why? Because McCain was a prisoner of war, and whether or not be was personally tortured I don't know, but I'm sure he could hear the screams of those who were, and has had ample time to communicate with other prisoners of war - and is acutely aware of what torture does to someone that is being held by the enemy for interrogation.

Furthermore, torture as an interrogation tool is essentially useless! If you torture someone long enough, and the torture is extreme, anyone, including you or I, would admit to anything just to stop the pain. I'm not speculating on this issue, as it's a proven fact:

Extraordinary rendition

From Obsidian Wings:

Let's talk about torture. As any professional can tell you, as an intelligence-gathering mechanism, it's worse than useless.

Consider that commonly invoked scenario where terrorists have planted a nuclear device in a city, scanning for radiation is mysteriously not an option, and you have some prisoners in custody who may or may not know the location of the device. Those who like the idea of torture always ask whether it wouldn't be justified to torture those prisoners for information.

The practical answer is no, it wouldn't. Someone who's being tortured will tell you anything, and they'll suddenly develop a real talent for figuring out what exactly what you want to hear, and giving it to you in detail. Using intelligence obtained under torture can actually lower your chances of finding that hypothetical device, because all your guys will be out there trying to track down fictional leads invented by your prisoners, instead of working on finding the device via conventional investigative methods. MUCH MORE, A Great Article!

Also, to those that have daughters and sons that are fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq, and future wars that are likely to come, why should our enemies honor the Geneva Convention when the so-called "Premier Democracy"- of the world doesn't adhere to its own beliefs and the rule of law? To support torture is to guarantee that when we do get in a conflict that requires re-implementation of the draft, we are guaranteeing that our own sons and daughters will also be tortured, and murdered as well, as have several recipients of torture under the Bush administration:

The Bush secret ruling on interrogation methods may explain the Justice Department's passivity on torture cases. The CIA Inspector General recommended that the Justice Department prosecute a CIA agent involved in the demise of an Iraqi detainee at Abu Ghraib. As the New Yorker reported, Manadel al-Jamadi died during an interrogation during which his head was covered in a plastic bag and he was "shackled in a crucifixion-like pose that inhibited his ability to breathe."- This was one of at least eight cases the CIA referred for prosecution, including cases of homicides during CIA interrogations in Afghanistan and Iraq. But the Justice Department refuses to prosecute any of the alleged torturers. The feds cannot prosecute CIA agents without risking public disclosure of the presidential order authorizing the torture of detainees. LINK
1 | 2

http://justanothercoverup.com/

I am nothing more than a patriotic American that is doing whatever I can to further the cause of democracy, the rule of law, and am absolutely outraged on how the Bush administration is defying our Congress, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights! Footnote: I write in a style that I believe is appropriate in today's world where we can't trust the Mainstream News Media, and rather than concentrating on one article alone, which may or may not receive the exposure and emphasis it should, I prefer to meld several relevant stories together, that each taken alone may not expose the entire situation, but when taken-in as a whole, tend to give the reader a better understanding of the subject. One article or story alone does not represent the "Big Picture" - but when several are effectively tied-together it often reveals a trend or broader view of the subject matter that is important to completely understand any given situation. http://justanothercoverup.com/

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2 comments

A writer is a rogue goose. All other gees fly in a flock formation; every goose knows his place and time for honking. The rogue goose is undisciplined. He leaves the formation indiscriminately to have a look at it from aside. He roams back and forth, takes a peep at the leader, honks a little bit from behind, distracts everyone and writes on what he sees. Time passes and as he wants to return back to his place he discovers someone else there. Thus he either has to wait until they land for rest...

to see more of bio, click on member name
Mark SashineA writer is a rogue goose. All other gees fly in a flock formation; every goose knows his place and time for honking. The rogue goose is undisciplined. He leaves the formation indiscriminately to have a look at it from aside. He roams back and forth, takes a peep at the leader, honks a little bit from behind, distracts everyone and writes on what he sees. Time passes and as he wants to return back to his place he discovers someone else there. Thus he either has to wait until they land for rest...

to see more of bio, click on member name

I want to repeat here my diary entry from Nov. 2005

A sermon on torture on Veteran's day

The topic of torture is back on the first page considering the CIA secret places in Eastern Europe. As usual all sides have that in common that all of them exhibit a genuine surprise as if they never knew about what CIA was ever doing. As if we all thought until today that CIA consists of Jack Ryans, degree et al. As if we never knew of Chile and the Dignidad colony. As if we never knew about other nice deeds of the CIA people in Guatemala, for instance. No, Sir. We have just found out that they are professional torturers and by God, here comes the split: the liberals are appalled by the fact itself and the so- called conservatives are appalled by.. the fact that it was revealed. Go figure who is more insane. I guess the former are deliberately stupid and insane and the latter are evil and insane. What a choice!

::::::::

One of the most insane statements I have read recently was a liberal argument that “ ..Torture does not work. We don’t get needed info ..”. Mea Culpa, in the Y2003 I myself used that argument because… I thought we were rational people and had just gone astray. But by today I know better. So, here is a question; What if it did work? Then the liberals would say OK, let’s go for it?
I have news for you, folks. Torture does work. It does exactly what it is designed for- it makes people inhuman. All people but the victim. That is what the torture is for. No other purpose is sought. By the Providence of God torture of the human being for whatever reason is an inhuman act and that’s how God distinguishes between the humans and ..others. Thus here is something else for you all, my darlings:

The definition of torture is simple- it is inflicting on the other what you don’t want to be inflicted on thyself unless you are a psychopathic masochist (those do not qualify as torturers; they are just sick). As such:

· Anyone who does torture directly is evil and has to be destroyed.
· Anyone who willfully orders torture is evil and has to be destroyed.
· Anyone who sees torture and does not stop it even by killing the torturer is not human anymore.
· Anyone who helps to perform torture professionally (doctors, lawyers, technical personnel) have lost their humanity and are to be put into tar and feathers.
· Anyone who justifies torture by any argument whatsoever is sick and has to be committed to the mental hospital.
· Anyone who considers torture as a possible part of the police or any other interrogation is subhuman and cannot be trusted with any job or entrusted to become a parent.
· Anyone who promotes torture or pain on the human being for money is a rabid dog and has to be treated as such.
· Anyone who ‘discusses’ torture in any way other than absolutely negative statement is a damned demagogue and will burn in Hell with the shoe in his mouth.
· Any member of the Christian denomination who does not curse the torturers in his prayers every day is not a real Christian and has to be excommunicated.
· Any parent who does not tell his children that torturing people is out of the question under any circumstance has to be stripped of the parental rights.
· Any person who pretends to be deliberately naïve and performs torture when given direct orders is a damned fool because those people are witnesses and are the first target for elimination.
· And last but not least: Any nation which openly discusses torture from the position whether that thing is “useful or not, works or not, helps or not” is not a nation but a mob. And the mob does not deserve a democracy.

There is no excuse for torture. No discussion, no limits, no small, no big, no plus, no minus, no pro, no con. Joking about torture is evil. Listening to the discussion of torture is evil because there is nothing to discuss. Considering it as an option is evil. A person can kill another human being and still remain human. But torturers become inhuman as soon as they do it once and there is no way back. Torture is a Devil's invention and everyone who somehow touches it becomes a Devil's brood. End of the story.

When I wrote my first essay on torture (it is in the diaries) some people said that I was too angry. Damn right I am. I don't like the Devil's brood. And I especially don't like people who knowingly embrace the Devil while pretending that they do not know what the Hell are they doing. That's a spiritual stupidity of the worst kind.
Shame on you, people. How can you? How can you be so stupid?

PS. There is a persistent statement in the media that 'if someone planted a nuclear device and a person in custody knows where it is you can torture this person because of the circumstances' I am not even discussing this kind of lunacy. ' If someone planted and you know...' If you know all that- just go find it. Now, how do you know a person in custody has the info? He told you? He is willing to die? All of that is not relevant. Such situations happened many times and real humans know how to deal with them: you put the person responsible in the same situation as the victims. That means you ask a question about a whereabouts of the device. Then, if a person refuses to answer you calmly tell this person that after the blast occurs you will execute him/her. That is that simple. If the nuclear blast takes place the real, normal life on this planet is off anyway. So you will exercise justice if you are a real human being. That is all. But you will remain a human until the end.

by Mark Sashine (51 articles, 19 quicklinks, 244 diaries, 3462 comments) on Friday, June 27, 2008 at 11:12:52 AM