How do we wake these souls up?

by Rob Kall (952 articles, 4177 quicklinks, 374 diaries, 2087 comments [45 recommended, 3 rejected]) on Friday, Sep 12, 2008 at 2:48:52 PM

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I am almost done trying. I am tired of being the punch line for a joke. It is so sad how the truth has become opinion.

by Anthony Wade (160 articles, 2 quicklinks, 44 diaries, 890 comments [19 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Friday, Sep 12, 2008 at 2:51:33 PM

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keep trying sir for the end times are comming and some will listen--its in the BIG book on how the true meaning of christs messages as well as the bibles will be torn appart and used for evil means---apparant today--we had 1 true cristian president--jimmy carter and we rejected him for not bombing the heck out of iran--and he warned us about gas and energy--guess what- he was right----reagan even took down the solar hot water panels on the white house he had installed--guess what????-guess what---guess what-------------

by TRADESMAN (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 12 diaries, 335 comments [40 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Saturday, Sep 13, 2008 at 8:46:05 AM

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It's another day. I'm not giving up just yet.

by Anthony Wade (160 articles, 2 quicklinks, 44 diaries, 890 comments [19 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Saturday, Sep 13, 2008 at 9:14:20 AM

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I can truely appreciate your desire to see to it that people vote on the truth rather than a lie.

by Joe Bechtold (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 42 comments) on Friday, Sep 12, 2008 at 3:28:38 PM

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Thank you.

by JC Garrett (40 articles, 65 quicklinks, 7 diaries, 604 comments [10 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Sep 12, 2008 at 3:31:12 PM

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These folks may be sincere, but they are deluded.  Brian McLaren, in Everything Must Change, likens it to having a jigsaw puzzle with the wrong picture on the top.  They are trying to make the Bible fit the picture, but there are all these pieces they have to ignore or force fit because they just don't fit.  If you actually look at the picture they do really make, it's a lot different.  Jesus challenged all the parties of his day, and showed us a new way.

by Bill Samuel (5 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 445 comments [14 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Sep 12, 2008 at 5:01:28 PM

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The very people who may end up begging god to kill then for 5 months are the very people you are talking about.  But it will purge purify and refine them so someday we all will learn how to get along, by minding our own business, which so many of them don't.

by Michael Dewey (5 articles, 1 quicklinks, 4 diaries, 245 comments [12 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Sep 12, 2008 at 5:23:05 PM

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You are not alone, keep the faith.

by Bob Gormley (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 1094 comments [65 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Sep 12, 2008 at 5:23:49 PM

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I'v read every one of your posts Anthony. I consider you honest and down to earth. The last thing you are is crazy. I deeply admire and respect you. I always look for your posts every time I go to OpEd news.

by Larry McCombs (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 38 comments [11 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Sep 12, 2008 at 6:34:32 PM

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The Xians in this world are taken with using Christianity much as merchants use Christmas to fill their wallets.   They pay little mind to whom the religion is named for and what he taught.   The use of ones religion as a weapon and persecution device is akin to using patriotism as threat and conviction.   The really sad part is that many of the churches of Christianity are involved in the defamation of the religion of Jesus of Nazareth.   This is hardly new as the Catholic church has been using Christianity and Jesus as political hostages almost since the Roman Empire converted.   Church's and other groups have been committing crimes against both the religion and humanity for centuries.   The Inquisitions, the witchhunts, the KKK, the Aryan nations, the Crusades, et al have been haunting mankind for what seems like forever.   I still do not understand how someone can take a religion whose reason for being is peace and love, and use it for some of the most vile and hideous acts in human history.   You are hardly a lunatic although the Xians will consider you to be a heretic.   Hang in there and keep fighting to save your religion like we are fighting to save our country. 

by Hayesml47 (6 articles, 0 quicklinks, 4 diaries, 540 comments [10 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Sep 12, 2008 at 6:38:21 PM

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Quote from above:

"Mind you, I have actually worked with the impoverished and the disabled for the past 17 years, so maybe I am a little biased in my insanity. In the spirit of full disclosure, John McCain would be better for me personally.>>>>>>>>> Based on my salary, his tax plan is better for me than Obama's<<<<>>>Welfare to Work, so again, McCain is better for me<<<<

So you make more than $250,000???? Barak will LOWER taxes for folks below 250,000. In contrast, McCAin will ELIMINATE employer tax deductions for HEALTHCARE bene', assuing you are lucky enough to have healthcare - this IMHO will discourage EMPLOYERS from offering a healthcare plan, and while the average value of family heath is over 11,000, you would only receive a tax credit of 5k (again for a family) I don't see how ANYONE comes out better in the longrun with McSame, unless you are a millionaire/billonaire

by aaronbav (1 articles, 1 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 15 comments) on Friday, Sep 12, 2008 at 7:20:33 PM

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God has taken care of me, but no, I do not make more than 250K, lol.

by Anthony Wade (160 articles, 2 quicklinks, 44 diaries, 890 comments [19 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Friday, Sep 12, 2008 at 11:49:32 PM

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     Your finest writing and a tribute to personal truth, the kind that is today treated as the enemy, when instead it should be set free, nourished and honored.

     Through my love of music and community, I have been around and involved with religious folks of various persuasions throughout most of my life. I am an atheist.

     But I read the bible Anthony. Often. It is the story of an amazing human being, one of very very few IMHO. I also read the Tao.

     We are each on our road and within our personal travels we discover our truths that allow us to decipher what you describe as black and white.

     Everything written has a motive. Everything. Corruption of original intent is as old as the earth. Twisting and reshaping, inserting confusion and chaos where there is none are the standards by which these truths are hidden. Fear guides many.

     Many recognize the path they are on. Be glad you do.

     You are not alone Anthony. I am sure of that.

     Again. Your finest piece. IMHO

     Thank you.

     peace

by mikel paul (14 articles, 1 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 570 comments [13 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Sep 12, 2008 at 7:31:59 PM

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Anthony

You are the reason I will defend tooth and nail any Christian Church  builidng from demolition. You are the reason I consider Christianity  the same  kind of human achievement as the wheel.

God bless you, man  if  He exists.

by Mark Sashine (72 articles, 19 quicklinks, 269 diaries, 4101 comments [131 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Sep 12, 2008 at 7:38:02 PM

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He does and i thank you.

by Anthony Wade (160 articles, 2 quicklinks, 44 diaries, 890 comments [19 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Saturday, Sep 13, 2008 at 12:14:21 AM

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my earlier post (not sure how it double posted - hopefully Rob will delete).

 My "skepticisim" was about your belief that McSame's tax policy would be better for you, especially since you indicated you work with the poor as typically people who do such good works don't make a lot of money.

We have some freinds who have worked in Social Services and they certainly don't make a lot of money - yet they still feel that Republicans are "better" for them and "will keep their taxes low".  I assumed you were in that catagory.

It didn't occur to me that you might have other means and actually  do make more that 250k -  and your work with the poor is out of a since of giving back, which is awsome!

by aaronbav (1 articles, 1 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 15 comments) on Friday, Sep 12, 2008 at 10:34:08 PM

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www.liberalslikechrist.org

I wish there were an easy answer, but here are a few observations and ideas that are not being discussed:

Liberal Christianity started dying out in the sixties and seventies with the resurgence of free market capitalism as the memories of the Great Depression faded, and as the New Deal was being systematically dismantled. By the mid eighties, Fundamentalism had taken hold across many Churches in America that were formerly liberal. Liberals left the Church in droves, but not only in opposition to fundamentalism, but also for their own economic benefit. At the same time, conservatives twisted Christianity into something that today can hardly be called Christian at all (for their economic benefit).

The fundamental change happened in American society that is almost never mentioned-the creation and implementation of a supposed merit system through a selective hierarchy of colleges and universities. There is no doubt that usary is antithetical to everything that Jesus ever taught, but what is not even recognized is that Jesus constantly criticized the Scribes, Pharisees, and Teachers of the Law and their merit system. The Pharisees were something akin to the professional middle class of the day-they used their educational status in a formalized system to gain privilege just as we do today. The parallels are striking between now and then.

Today young people are judged from middle school onwards-they’ve got to jump through the hoops in high school to prove their merit so as to have the chance to enter college and to become part of the middle class. My WWII parents’ generation were judge in a much different way-based on how hard they worked. Today, real work means nothing-the people who work the hardest are often paid the least.

By the time I went to school in the seventies and early eighties, all of my teachers had already been thoroughly indoctrinated in the educational merit system (that started in earnest during the Korean War years with the first deferments), and it showed. They really thought they were intellectually and morally superior to everyone else.

Capitalism has always existed in America, yet we have never been until fairly recently (arguably) a fascist country. What’s the difference? Well fascism is the merger of corporations and government, and today government through the educational merit system has a significant role in deciding who will be allowed to participate in what level of capitalism. Universities today are giant personnel departments for corporations, and corporations provide significant funding for university research. One hand washes the other. The “public/private partnership” that my hometown newspaper praises is really just a euphemism for fascism.

Christianity requires selflessness and service. Our supposed meritocracy promotes selfishness and privilege. You can’t serve by taking more. My liberal friends often become angry when I say this. What about Camelot and JFK et al? Sorry. Nope. You can’t do that and be a good Christian-no more than you can serve both God and mammon. The first shall be last and the last shall be first. He that would be first shall be the servant of all. No big house-no expensive cars-no privilege whatsoever. It’s a narrow road.

by Mark Whittington (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 30 comments [9 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Sep 12, 2008 at 11:12:38 PM

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Just wanted to say thank you to all the kind words and encouragement from those who posted in this thread. I truly do appreciate it.

by Anthony Wade (160 articles, 2 quicklinks, 44 diaries, 890 comments [19 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Friday, Sep 12, 2008 at 11:53:39 PM

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Thank you for your excellent article.

I also have my political beliefs and actions, based upon my own deep spiritual beliefs. 

Thank you again 

by Michael Cavlan (15 articles, 0 quicklinks, 6 diaries, 538 comments [131 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Saturday, Sep 13, 2008 at 12:27:14 AM

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I too believe in the man but I don't hang out at the Church. Somewhere in the bible, it says we should congregate. I guess that's what we're doing here on OEN. Somewhere in the bible it says something about our place of worship. My favorite place to worship God's creations is in the woods. So I made the woods my Church. I don't hear any birds telling me I'm crazy. I'm sure it'll be very difficult for you to understand this, but politics have no place in my Church and when I worship, I do it alone. Dude, you're hangin' out with the wrong people! You might as well hang with Sarah P.

by Tony Forest (7 articles, 18 quicklinks, 166 diaries, 1429 comments [5 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Saturday, Sep 13, 2008 at 2:11:59 AM

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As a Christian who has become turned off by "churchianity" I get it.

You are not far off the mark.

by Bob Gormley (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 1094 comments [65 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Saturday, Sep 13, 2008 at 4:46:53 AM

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I understand what you are saying but there are benefits to being a part of the body. Corporate worship is a different experience than individual worship. Plus you can be held accountable easier.

But the bigger thing for me is that you do not need to be at church to feel God but what if God intends to use you to reach someone else?

But i hear yiou.

by Anthony Wade (160 articles, 2 quicklinks, 44 diaries, 890 comments [19 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Saturday, Sep 13, 2008 at 9:22:46 AM

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It sounds like many of us are struggling with the role of religion and church in today's society.  What I find truly sad is that many of the "unchurched" accept the definition of Christianity and the church as defined by Pat Robertson and company.  In reality these guys happen to be the lunatic fringe with broadcasting companies.  I have heard people who have argued that they may even be part of a collective "anti-Christ",  I don't know if I would go that far, but I certainly think that they have been detrimental to the body of Christ.  

To those who are believers, I would like to leave a couple of thoughts and advice.  First  read some of the books or subscribe to the free newsletter from Bishop Shelby Spong.  Pat Robertson will tell you Rev Spong is the devil incarnate, but he doesn't have an ounce of the common sense or compassion that Rev. Spong does. 

I would also like to introduce those of you who may not have heard of it to the concept of "pluralism".   That is the notion that two conflicting ideas can reside comfortably in an individual.  Many people believe in the "scientific method"  which is based on skeptism until something is proven, and yet we operate on faith in our day to day lives.  We trust our spouses to be faithful, we trust our friends to be honest and supportive, and we trust our parents to love us and promote our interest.  There is nothing wrong with you if you believe in science and some sort of religion.   They are not exclusive of one another.  I think it may have been Molly Ivins who once pointed out that when you really get down to the nuts and bolts of it, scientist don't know what electricity really is but they operate on faith that when they turn a switch that the lights will come on.  There is no war between religion and science.

Jesus didn't say much about the politics of his day.  The Roman occupation was unpopular, but when he was pressed he simply pointed out that we should rinder to Caesar what was his (secular things) and to God what is his (spiritual things).  On social issues he had a lot to say.....particularly how we treat marginalized people.  He said nothing about capital punishment, but when he was present during a public execution he stopped it (I can easily imagine Pat Robertson standing in the crowd with a big rock in his hand).  In a word, Jesus would not have liked the Republicans OR the Democrats.

To tell the truth, the church needs people who ask questions now more than they ever have before.  Jesus said he would put people in conflict against one another because they would be asking questions about the status quo and he would always be moving them from their stodgy comfort zones (all right, I am paraphrasing and adding my spin).  I won't look it up right now but there is a passage in the Bible about Peter and Paul having a disagreement.  Some translators say that they agrued and other translators say that a fist fight would be more accurate.  It is a myth that the church has been a monolithic and harmonious institution.  Come back to the fold, us members of the true faith  are getting our a**e* kicked and we need your help.  

by vidiot (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 300 comments [10 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Saturday, Sep 13, 2008 at 11:49:19 AM

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   how the church congregation was so pro war/Bush.

I couldn't reconcile their thinking with the teachings of Jesus.

I felt the bar was too low in that church, and most of the other churches I

had attended. Most were against abortion, but were strangely pro war.

Just didn't make sense. I had to get out to clear my mind.

by Bob Gormley (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 1094 comments [65 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Saturday, Sep 13, 2008 at 12:30:06 PM

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But as long as the church is not promoting war from the pulpit, like it seems is the case in Palin's church. People can have their opinions, but when leadership crosses that line, i would agree it is time to move on.

by Anthony Wade (160 articles, 2 quicklinks, 44 diaries, 890 comments [19 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Saturday, Sep 13, 2008 at 3:21:33 PM

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It was definitely leadership that held that pro-Bush/war stance.

by Bob Gormley (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 1094 comments [65 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Saturday, Sep 13, 2008 at 7:40:39 PM

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I'm so glad to see you here again! I'm an ordained pagan, but I really like you. You are a really good Christian. I love the passages you quoted above. I love all who seek out the divine and try to rise above our baser human nature, be they Buddhist, Christian, Islamic, or Atheist or Whatnot. The problem I see with so many of the conservatives is simple laziness. They are too willing to let someone else tell them what is right and wrong. Then it is precisely the dishonest who see an opportunity to manipulate these people for their own personal gain. Recently I noted that George Bush was credited with saying that he didn't care what history thought of him--he would be dead! So much for his belief in an afterlife! The Bible calls the Devil the "Father of All Lies" for a reason. I wish the people laughing at you would consider that for just one minute. But I think you will find there are a lot of people out here of all religious persuasions who will really like you, and furthermore, you'll find other Christians who think, really think, like you do. "Seek and ye shall find"!

by Oh (7 articles, 5 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 321 comments [41 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Saturday, Sep 13, 2008 at 4:46:32 AM

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I view the laziness problem like this:

1) Christians "come to Christ" by their own decision, of their own volition if you will. They CHOSE to make that decision.

2) Instead of doing the work necessary to show the love of Christ, share what He has done for them, and lead people to make that same decision; they would prefer to change laws to force people to accept their morality.

THAT'S Lazy.

by Anthony Wade (160 articles, 2 quicklinks, 44 diaries, 890 comments [19 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Saturday, Sep 13, 2008 at 9:27:01 AM

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Coming to Christ is more than a verbal declaration.

It is a circumcision of the heart. Unless the heart is changed lip service means

nothing (Jesus spoke about lip service and the condition of the heart). Unless the heart is forever changed salvation is nothing but lip service.

"By their fruits you shall know them" is the key to understanding salvation and

allegiance to the Master.

by Bob Gormley (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 1094 comments [65 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Saturday, Sep 13, 2008 at 12:36:30 PM

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I was referring to a change of the heart in terms of coming to Christ.

by Anthony Wade (160 articles, 2 quicklinks, 44 diaries, 890 comments [19 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Saturday, Sep 13, 2008 at 3:23:08 PM

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I know :)

by Bob Gormley (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 1094 comments [65 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Saturday, Sep 13, 2008 at 7:42:00 PM

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Anthony,

Our views on religion could not be more divergent – I am a steadfast atheist – yet your article (as they often do) gave me pause. We will inexorably deviate about purported claims of inerrancy within Biblical text or parthenogenetic births and supernatural resurrections. Yet, in my view, that is not the statement you are making here, nor is it a proselytizing missive about superlative, Christian piousness – it has a more temporal meaning that plays to a wider audience, regardless if its roots where grounded in your own spiritualism.

See, after an arduous eight months, I have just completed a manuscript about why I believe religion is dangerous, fallacious and why I do not believe in the God of Abraham. I poured over my own inner attitudes, paradigms, and personal erudition. I outwardly studied wisely thousands of pages, dozens of books, and hundreds of hours of tedious video, to argue my point and create a framework around my utter disbelief in a controlling deity.

However, and I certain we will forever hold antithetical views on religion, this article, this essay, is not in any way about religion. It is not even about faith, at least in the sense of believing in monotheistic god, but about a humane and human idea – faith in people.

That patriotism and humanity begins with each of us helping one another for the greater good of humankind.

Each brick of understanding you posit constructs a well-built edifice of an idea that reaches for the unvarnished truth. Whether you are a Christian or an Atheist that the fellowship of compassion begins with an immovable concept where we all must take care of one another if we are to survive as a nation, as a people, and perhaps, even as a species.

We dissent on the origins of man and the universe, but we universally agree that we must begin to place unreserved importance on the value of human life and a better system of governance that lifts people up in a time of need. We must break free from egregious lies and pernicious, political propaganda, which serves only the power elite at the expense of a nation already deeply wounded and bitterly divided.

We stand apart in our beliefs (or lack of them) but you do not stand alone, for I stand proudly with you as an American, a patriot, and a fellow democrat.

Congratulations, this is beyond a doubt, your finest piece of writing!

by Frank J. Ranelli (66 articles, 143 quicklinks, 29 diaries, 383 comments) on Saturday, Sep 13, 2008 at 4:53:29 AM

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I appreciate your kind words. We still have alot in common in terms of right and wrong.

For the record, I have never been a registered dem or repub. I ultimately believe both parties are horribly corrupt with a smattering good people on both sides. I believe it is the 2-party system itself that is the cancer eating away at our republic. It is one of two "macro" issues that are behind the scenes destroying this country; the other two being media consolidation and the privitization of voting.

Thanks again.

by Anthony Wade (160 articles, 2 quicklinks, 44 diaries, 890 comments [19 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Saturday, Sep 13, 2008 at 9:37:25 AM

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Is there a God?

God(s), spirits, or whatever one might call them exist I believe if you want them to. There are undoubtedly things that can not be explained other than by divine intervention. So I am open to the aspect.

However I find that man, being prone to base instincts will use anything attributed to super-natural for his own benefit and interpret things that can not be explained as a tool for control, churches filling that roll quit well.

Left alone if man were to follow that voice within him, which may be interpreted as God, or God Spirit, I believe would lead to a truer sense of what the Spirit of God may be. Churches having to depend on an interpreter can be only as good as the man (pastor, priest) interpreting and not God's true nature.

Anthony, if you find yourself in the minority, or alone, it may well be that you're closer to God than most.

by Mr M (8 articles, 0 quicklinks, 66 diaries, 2845 comments [654 recommended, 27 rejected]) on Saturday, Sep 13, 2008 at 9:33:05 AM

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I liked the line about maybe being closer than most if i find myself alone. Well done. Thanks.

by Anthony Wade (160 articles, 2 quicklinks, 44 diaries, 890 comments [19 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Saturday, Sep 13, 2008 at 9:39:20 AM

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One of my favorite quotes in the Bible:

"Strive to enter through the narrow gate, because the pathway to destruction

is broad and many are those passing through it."

Maybe you are passing through the narrow gate... and that's good!

by Bob Gormley (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 1094 comments [65 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Saturday, Sep 13, 2008 at 12:39:56 PM

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When I hear these so called Christians talk about war being a mission from God I shudder.  To call yourself a Christian you should be following the message that Jesus gave.  Have these Christians read the words of Jesus?  He clearly stated that only love can overcome evil.  To claim war as a mission from God is an abomination.

The Spirit of Truth has a message that addresses this much better than I:

Main Page @ reformationcomingsoon.bravehost.com

by Philip Pease (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 209 comments [11 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Saturday, Sep 13, 2008 at 9:42:07 AM

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to the dangers inherent in separating Republicans from their inaction campaign issues list. I remain convinced that the primary reason that they engaged in the witch hunt that ended in his impeachment was that he had the gall to enact as law those issues that they had been campaigning on for years. Free trade, welfare reform, deregulation, it is what made Clinton the best Republican president since Eisenhower.

You may, no doubt, expect analogous treatment for depriving them of their well groomed empty piety.

Thanks for bringing this essay to us. I know how easy it is for me to ascribe Christianist characteristics to large groups of Christians, though they are not so homogeneous in their views. Even in members of the same congregation, I'm sure (when I take the trouble to think about it) that there are widely divergent social and political views.

by John Sanchez Jr. (9 articles, 0 quicklinks, 25 diaries, 1791 comments [148 recommended, 3 rejected]) on Saturday, Sep 13, 2008 at 12:24:42 PM

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I stand rightly corrected (about you being a Democrat), agree that the duopoly that plagues Washington is the crux of our problems with poor governance, and failed leadership.

Personally, overall, since it is the zeitgeist of our time, I think one must work vigilantly toward a better solution (breaking up the power duopoly) but still must decide which Party of the two is overall more aligned with one’s own viewpoint of how to best govern a people. Republicans clearly aspire to destroy America and to set up a permanent oligarchy run by plutocrats. Democrats, in general, while I am often critical and disappointed in their inactions, are still a far better choice than the current neoconservative movement that has perverted the Party of Lincoln and Goldwater – they are truly the Fascist Party of America today. (See Leo Strauss)

Unfortunately, they (Republicans) also fiendishly wield religion as a bludgeon to subjugate or silence dissent while they eviscerate any force or form of an egalitarian society that puts people first. Ergo, the unmitigated debacle we now have in Washington that is as dysfunctional as it is diabolic. Democrats are inept and weak, while Republicans are corrupt and nefarious.

My own conclusions are rather nihilistic, but history and historians support this theory (See Kevin Phillip’s; American Theocracy). All governments historically – from the ancient Roman Empire to the modern American hegemonic State – always end up expanding until they collapse. This is ubiquitously brought about by over-reaching imperialism, jingoism, exploitation of religion and economic overreach. It is further precipitated by hyperinflation, uncontrollable debt and deficits, combined with reckless leveraging and borrowing. Inevitably, and thusly, leading to an economic crisis and collapse, causing an entropic decay and demise of the nation state. It is akin to a malignant cancer that grows exponentially until it kills off the host – society itself.

We have a diseased nation, Anthony, and it has infected everything from science to religion. Therefore, we are equally under attack and must not stand alone, but together.

Ps. If you have not read Naomi Wolf’s book, The End of America, it is a great primer into the historic examples of how past civilizations have encountered – and failed to fend off – totalitarian movements, and what we can do to prevent this escalating accretion toward despotism and all-out fascism.

by Frank J. Ranelli (66 articles, 143 quicklinks, 29 diaries, 383 comments) on Saturday, Sep 13, 2008 at 4:54:13 PM

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I do not fall into the trap so many do who are willing to waste their votes on people who stand no chance because of the diseased system. There is a clear difference between the two parties and I am forced to vote for the lesser of two evils.

Thanks again.

by Anthony Wade (160 articles, 2 quicklinks, 44 diaries, 890 comments [19 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Saturday, Sep 13, 2008 at 6:18:21 PM

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Dear Anthony,

You're no lunatic.  There are many that feel as you do but thank you for articulating your ideas so well!  It is really good to see someone applying actual Christian values to this decision.  I'm sure there are lots that do, but then it appears that most that get noted appear to operate from a place of extremism.  

It always seems to me too that people who tend to come from the extremist place do so by relying mostly on the Old Testament instead of the New?  Do you have any thoughts on that? 

Again thanks for your lovely words,

Tricia Christensen 

by Tricia Ellis Christensen (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 3 comments) on Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 at 7:40:24 PM

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They pick and choose what they are looking for. The OT deals alot more in judgment and war. The NT is the New Covenant of Christ. Jesus changed the system, He raised the bar. Unfortunately, many Christians fall prey too easily to people who are manipulating them. They go after the Pastoral levels first, wrap it up in morality, such as abortion, and then hope they look the other way on things such as war. If they ask about war, they take the "righteous war" slant, convincing them that God is on their side.

This is of course a general answer.

Thanks for your kind words.

by Anthony Wade (160 articles, 2 quicklinks, 44 diaries, 890 comments [19 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 at 7:54:24 PM

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Mr. Wade,

 I'm a little reluctant to wear my Christian heart on my sleeve in the comment section of a political blog, and I almost sent a message to you privately, but I decided that I'd just do it this way and let the chips fall where they may.  Your honest appeal deserves more than an "atta boy" or a "boo, get outta here", so I'll try to make my comments appropriate to the level you've set.

I can very readily appreciate your problem.  We Christians are trying to make our way in a world which is diametrically opposed to Christ and His kingdom, and we're frequently called upon to take rather lonely stands.  Here in the United States, that's sometimes easy to forget.  We're so prosperous and have so much freedom (sorry, lefties, but that's true--I've lived in "third-world" countries and I know the reality) that it's easy for us here to make peace with the world.  We forget who we are and where we are.  It's easy for us to confuse the USA with the kingdom.  In fact, God "lifts up one and puts down another", and our time of being "put down" may be drawing near.   

Frankly, that really doesn't matter.  What's important is the eternal.  I know it's hard to lose sight of that in the hurly-burly of life, particularly life here.  We're constantly distracted by the trivial.  It's almost like there's a conspiracy to keep us from thinking, pondering, and weighing.  I can see that you, for one, are resisting that.  Keep on.

For many years, I've tended to vote the right side of the political aisle.  I frankly don't know what I'll do this upcoming election.  I've learned so much since I turned 50, I think I was sleepwalking before then.  I have a basic problem with the left, though.  Their calls for "justice" and "fairness" ring hollow for two reasons:  First, many, if not most of them, have no basis for assigning moral categories; and second, I think that since so many of them have stopped worshipping and glorifying God, they've turned to the worship and glorification of collective Man, as exemplified by the State.  Their calls for equality and justice and fairness require a great increase in the size, scope, and power of that beast.  That's not to say that the right side of the aisle doesn't try to expand government power for their own ends--witness the Patriot Act, in my opinion one of the most dangerous pieces of legislation to come along in the history of our Republic.

Gotta go now--maybe we can continue this later.

Blessings to you. 

by david smith (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1 comments) on Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 at 9:05:01 PM

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I think that the roles change over decades and centuries but at this moment in time, the lesser of two evils is on the dem side. Society will continue to erode one way or the other, but the GOP is bent on global domination. They simply do not care who or how many have to die in the pursuit of their greed and power. I do care.

Is Obama the answer to everything, not a chance. But some of the larger issues stand no chance of being addressed with the GOP in power. My hope is under an Obama administration we can at least see HAVA overturned and maybe some regulation restored to media. Hope at least. Along with that, my hope is that the wars of man will end swifter with an educated man in the White House instead of someone with anger management issues whose vice presidential selection is an insult to the office.

Thanks for the kind words.

by Anthony Wade (160 articles, 2 quicklinks, 44 diaries, 890 comments [19 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 at 9:40:48 PM

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Political Lunatic ? I don't think so Mr. Wade but remember , how you educate the masses is as important as what you are telling them. Fighting an email chain letter is like shoveling ( you know what ) against the tide. I'm a Christian but both parties have to fight for my vote. The issues about abortion and gay marriages are not going to be decided by this election or the next ten.  I will ask this though; is it possible that in your dialogue with your brothers and sisters your opinion was lost amid overzealousness on your part?  A gentle answer turns away wrath.

by js (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 5 comments) on Thursday, Sep 18, 2008 at 5:46:27 AM

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My answer would be no. I try to remain very even handed when dealing with people, especially Christians, because they are already pre-disposed to disagreeing with anything that doesn't parrot the party line of the GOP. The object is not to get into a fight. If someone sends an inaccurate email for example, i provide the link that debunks it, politely say it was inaccurate and say that I pray i offend no one. So overall, no.

by Anthony Wade (160 articles, 2 quicklinks, 44 diaries, 890 comments [19 recommended, 2 rejected]) on Thursday, Sep 18, 2008 at 9:04:37 AM

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