Tags for This Article:

9-11 (233) 

Populum Tag Cloud
       Control Panel
Fine tune your search to access content
Articles
Diaries Products
Events All
All time
Last 6 mos
Last month
Last week
Last 24 hrs
From:
Month  Day   Year

To:
Month  Day   Year
Alphabet
Popularity
Count ON
Count OFF
This Level
Sub-levels

 

 

 

Tag(s):
Add to My Group
August 5, 2008 at 07:28:51

Headlined on 8/5/08:
Chemical Traces of High Explosives in WTC Debris

by Josh Mitteldorf     Page 1 of 1 page(s)

www.opednews.com

 

Tell A Friend

View Ratings | Rate It  

The standard way to demolish a steel-framed building is to apply cutter charges to the supporting beams. Normally, the cutter charges are high-explosives strapped to a metal wedge on the side of the beam. There is a science to placing the charges in such a way that the building falls inward. It requires a great deal of expertise to keep a tall building from toppling over sideways.

Many scientists and engineers have looked at the way the WTC towers fell and remarked that it had the appearance of controlled demolition. The buildings collapsed symmetrically, and fell straight down. The speed of the fall indicated that the buildings were collapsing unimpeded. They must have had the “legs” simultaneously pulled out from under them, because a layered collapse from the top down would have taken several minutes, whereas the observed collapse took place in less than 20 seconds. But the conjecture has been that the cutter charges consisted not of explosives but of finely-powdered aluminum mixed with iron oxide, with added sulfur. This mixture contains both fuel and oxidant – it needs no air – and it burns hot enough to melt steel. The trade name for this product is “Thermate.”

In addition to the speed and symmetry of collapse, another anomaly in the WTC collapse was the violent explosions. Firemen reported earthshaking blasts from the basement before collapse, and the impact areas in the upper floorss of the buildings exploded just at the onset of collapse. Jet fuel burns but cannot explode.

In an article published this week in the journal Environmentalist, chemical engineer Kevin Ryan collects evidence from EPA documents that suggest there was both Thermate and high-explosives in the debris from the WTC collapse. Ryan was formerly employed by Environmental Health Labs, a division of Underwriters Labs, before he was fired for raising these and other questions.

Fires at the WTC site persisted for weeks after 9/11, despite firefighters’ use of water and chemical extinguishers to smother the flames. This suggests that it was a fuel-oxidant mixture that was burning. Pools of red-hot molten iron could not have been caused by burning jet fuel or building materials, because these burn at a much lower temperature than steel melts.

Ryan’s evidence consists in traces of 1,3-diphenylpropane as well as sulfur and particulate matter, reported by the EPA to have appeared in spikes continuing as late as March, 2002. Ryan believes that these came from brief, intense fires ignited by the molten steel when it came in contact with yet-unburned plastic building materials during the clean-up process.

Link to Journal article full text

 

http://mathforum.org/~josh

Josh Mitteldorf was educated to be an astrophysicist, and has branched out from there to mathematical modeling in a variety of areas. He has taught mathematics, statistics, and physics at several universities. He is an avid amateur pianist, and father of two adopted Chinese girls. This year, his affiliation is with the University of Arizona, where he studies the evolution of aging.

Contact Author
Contact Editor
View Other Articles by Author

 

Bookmark this page: (what's this?)

NETSCAPE      DIGG THIS      Add This Page to Mr Wong!           NEWSVINE      DEl.ICIO.US      Looksmart Furl      My Web      Tag!RawSugar      Blink List     (More...)
Comments: Expand   Shrink   Hide  
45 comments

I am retired with not enough money saved to counter inflation and being forced back into the work force. I am a vet, (Vietnam era), extremely disappointed with the aggressive, imperialistic direction this country has taken in Iraq, to control and usurp it's oil, and the extent to which BOTH parties are complicit.
Nick van NesI am retired with not enough money saved to counter inflation and being forced back into the work force. I am a vet, (Vietnam era), extremely disappointed with the aggressive, imperialistic direction this country has taken in Iraq, to control and usurp it's oil, and the extent to which BOTH parties are complicit.

So What?

That Bush openly admits to having broken the law (to "protect" the laws) has had virtually no impact on the opposition party that refuses to impeach. Actually, you could argue that Bush has been empowered by the apathy of the democrats.  It is blatantly clear those buildings came down with more help than just the planes. One, astoninshingly, came down that wasn't even hit. My own rep, Bill Delahunt, D-MA, couldn't be less interested in the truth. Truth--shmuth. The most important thing to him (and Pelosi and Conyers) is that the dems get elected. Nothing else matters.9/11, FISA, the Constitution.......none of it. I have now gone green, officially. This has to get worse before it gets better.

by Nick van Nes (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 179 comments) on Tuesday, August 5, 2008 at 10:40:06 AM
 


Earl of Stirling, Hereditary Governor and Lord Lieutenant of Canada. Author of CASH FOR PEERAGES: THE SMOKING GUN (Lulu Press at www.lulu.com/content/953682). Web site: http://europebusines.blogspot.com/
Lord StirlingEarl of Stirling, Hereditary Governor and Lord Lieutenant of Canada. Author of CASH FOR PEERAGES: THE SMOKING GUN (Lulu Press at www.lulu.com/content/953682). Web site: http://europebusines.blogspot.com/

Anyone with a brain

Very good article. Anyone with a brain knows that the official conspiracy theory is rubbish. In fact a large majority of Americans do not believe the official conspiracy theory anymore. However, that has little effect on our government. Which speaks volumes about the nature of American democracy in the 21st Century.

Stirling

by Lord Stirling (25 articles, 0 quicklinks, 4 diaries, 141 comments) on Tuesday, August 5, 2008 at 11:48:00 AM
 


Dbkchi is a 47 year old professional commuter and activist in Los Angeles California. When not stuck in traffic, he enjoys live music, beach volleyball and snow skiing.
DigitboyDbkchi is a 47 year old professional commuter and activist in Los Angeles California. When not stuck in traffic, he enjoys live music, beach volleyball and snow skiing.

WRONG

"Fires at the WTC site persisted for weeks after 9/11" -- This is inaccurate.  There were no fires burning below ground, no molten metal.  Check your facts.  Water applied to "Pools of red hot molten iron" would have caused massive steam explosions -- none of which were ever reported.

Check the video evidence of the "collapse".  At what temperature does steel turn to dust?

see www.drjudywood.com

 

by Digitboy (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 26 comments) on Tuesday, August 5, 2008 at 4:34:51 PM
 


Susan Guest retired from Citigroup in 2000. She currently operates a small working farm in Virginia.
Susan GuestSusan Guest retired from Citigroup in 2000. She currently operates a small working farm in Virginia.

Were You There?

Where did you get your information, digitboy?  I was a volunteer for a week at the site and handed out boots to the rescue workers who swapped their melted ones for new ones multiple times per day, for having come NEAR the molten metal.

by Susan Guest (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 82 comments) on Tuesday, August 5, 2008 at 4:40:14 PM
 


Dbkchi is a 47 year old professional commuter and activist in Los Angeles California. When not stuck in traffic, he enjoys live music, beach volleyball and snow skiing.
DigitboyDbkchi is a 47 year old professional commuter and activist in Los Angeles California. When not stuck in traffic, he enjoys live music, beach volleyball and snow skiing.

I wasn't there

Can you tell a melted boot from one that has suffered molecular dissasociation?

How many people in the rescue and clean up operations were treated for burns?  NONE!  How is that possible with molten metal flowing all around?

by Digitboy (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 26 comments) on Tuesday, August 5, 2008 at 5:18:56 PM
 


I was born in 1951. I had the benefit of experiencing the naïveté of the 50', The Ozzie and Harriet years, when Dad went to work in a suit and tie and Mom stayed home in
high heals and an apron. Yea, that was life for me. I lived in a predominantly Irish neighborhood in South Boston. My Grandmother and Grandfather came to America from Sicily in the early 1900's and finally settled in "Southie", opening one of the many corner markets, a grocery and butcher shop. They learned English and ma...

to see more of bio, click on member name

PeterJI was born in 1951. I had the benefit of experiencing the naïveté of the 50', The Ozzie and Harriet years, when Dad went to work in a suit and tie and Mom stayed home in
high heals and an apron. Yea, that was life for me. I lived in a predominantly Irish neighborhood in South Boston. My Grandmother and Grandfather came to America from Sicily in the early 1900's and finally settled in "Southie", opening one of the many corner markets, a grocery and butcher shop. They learned English and ma...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Molecular Disassociation?

Hey digit, or finger, or toe, or whatever.

I'm going to give you the opportunity to describe the process (since you can't spell it) of molecular disassociation as it refers to the melting of the workers boots at the 9-11 site.

Here's the deal toeboy, explain it in lay terms and describe the process which caused the molecules of the boots to disassociate themselves from one another. If you can do it and it makes sense then you'll be considered an expert in the field of molecular engineering. If you can't then you have to silently, admit to being a loud mouth moron who hasn't got a clue as to what he's talking about (sort of like the president) and refrain from ever offering your opinion on OpEd again. Deal? OK, Go.....

by PeterJ (13 articles, 2 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 165 comments) on Wednesday, August 6, 2008 at 7:24:40 PM
 


I am a full-on results oriented person that has taken the task of being a compliance consultant on numerous subject matters. I am a firm believer (90%) that the ideals and values expressed in www.zeitgeist.com is relevant information and we are all being led to the global slaughterhouse. "chips" a-hoy everyone, that cell phone you're using is just s prime example of how the "hall Monitors of Society" are tracking you everywhere you go. It's the New World crack addiction.
Elliott Van ReamerI am a full-on results oriented person that has taken the task of being a compliance consultant on numerous subject matters. I am a firm believer (90%) that the ideals and values expressed in www.zeitgeist.com is relevant information and we are all being led to the global slaughterhouse. "chips" a-hoy everyone, that cell phone you're using is just s prime example of how the "hall Monitors of Society" are tracking you everywhere you go. It's the New World crack addiction.

I was front and center

It's all a bunch of bandied hog-wash! I was on the 68th floor of Tower 1 and fortunately I am/was in great shape, so all my years of long distance running/training paid off big time. Let's face the facts and get past the "dysmorphia", I do know for a fact that serious charges and issues remain. It is of no consequence at this point to offer theories about what happened. It's the price that we pay for living in an intolerant world and allowing for the comingling of religion and politics. Remeber the ol' seration of Church and State that we are supposed to adhere to? Well, this is the fallout, quite literally when those rules are ignored or alltogether suspended. Ignorance is NOT a disability, it's a pathetic excuse for our over-saturated lazy population.

by Elliott Van Reamer (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 6 comments) on Wednesday, August 6, 2008 at 12:45:08 PM
 


I am a full-on results oriented person that has taken the task of being a compliance consultant on numerous subject matters. I am a firm believer (90%) that the ideals and values expressed in www.zeitgeist.com is relevant information and we are all being led to the global slaughterhouse. "chips" a-hoy everyone, that cell phone you're using is just s prime example of how the "hall Monitors of Society" are tracking you everywhere you go. It's the New World crack addiction.
Elliott Van ReamerI am a full-on results oriented person that has taken the task of being a compliance consultant on numerous subject matters. I am a firm believer (90%) that the ideals and values expressed in www.zeitgeist.com is relevant information and we are all being led to the global slaughterhouse. "chips" a-hoy everyone, that cell phone you're using is just s prime example of how the "hall Monitors of Society" are tracking you everywhere you go. It's the New World crack addiction.

Wrong!

Hello Digit (is that "single"? or an IQ matter), I was there for years, and YES! the fires did indeed burn for weeks. I transferred to the Berkshire building at Water Street for the next three months until I got a new office, and each and every day all of the workers in the District had to walk through filthy dangerous air every day. Do your research and see how many people Post 9/11 are dead due to the environs that caused them mesothelioma or some other rapturous disease. I care not to try to influence your views, or to create a challenge for you here. I believe that you will do very well with challenges on your own accord. Grow up. 

by Elliott Van Reamer (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 6 comments) on Wednesday, August 6, 2008 at 12:53:20 PM
 


I was born in 1951. I had the benefit of experiencing the naïveté of the 50', The Ozzie and Harriet years, when Dad went to work in a suit and tie and Mom stayed home in
high heals and an apron. Yea, that was life for me. I lived in a predominantly Irish neighborhood in South Boston. My Grandmother and Grandfather came to America from Sicily in the early 1900's and finally settled in "Southie", opening one of the many corner markets, a grocery and butcher shop. They learned English and ma...

to see more of bio, click on member name

PeterJI was born in 1951. I had the benefit of experiencing the naïveté of the 50', The Ozzie and Harriet years, when Dad went to work in a suit and tie and Mom stayed home in
high heals and an apron. Yea, that was life for me. I lived in a predominantly Irish neighborhood in South Boston. My Grandmother and Grandfather came to America from Sicily in the early 1900's and finally settled in "Southie", opening one of the many corner markets, a grocery and butcher shop. They learned English and ma...

to see more of bio, click on member name

What??

What the hell are you talking about?  Where'd you get your information? Popular Mechanics or the 9-11 report?

If you have nothing to contribute to a discussion aside from uninformed propoganda, then don't.

Watch some films, read some real reports from people other than Bush's relatives who blew the towers down.

Sheep are really scary animals!

by PeterJ (13 articles, 2 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 165 comments) on Wednesday, August 6, 2008 at 7:02:07 PM
 


A wild an crazy guy for democracy.
Guesswhotoo6A wild an crazy guy for democracy.

Pools of molten steel

FYI,

There are several videos of molten steel pouring from the building as well as video of streams of molten metal in the streets flowing over the sidewalk into the streets.   In addition, there are numerious pieces of steel with melt and high temperature sulfur eutectic corrosion (numerious authors published this specific evidence).   Finally, there are blast errosion of the red oxide paint and steel surface visible on most pieces of the structural members.

Do you really think you can prove a negative? 

 

by Guesswhotoo6 (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 13 comments) on Thursday, August 7, 2008 at 11:16:18 AM
 


Political Activism is a passion but I have earned a living since 1995 through my web page design and hosting business. I also do graphics design and offer business cards, fliers, brochures etc. My most recent venture which can be seen at http://www.locationpromos.com is to provide custom items via my China connections to the souvenir trade.
Paul KrugerPolitical Activism is a passion but I have earned a living since 1995 through my web page design and hosting business. I also do graphics design and offer business cards, fliers, brochures etc. My most recent venture which can be seen at http://www.locationpromos.com is to provide custom items via my China connections to the souvenir trade.

Basic errors in statements

Thermite burns fast and completely. There would be no residual burning for days. Using the shaped charges, which are actually contained within a copper "tube" with a v-notch on the beam side of the charge, they slice through the beams not because of heat but because the copper forms a shaped charge that moves at hypersonic velocity and litterly slices the steal by kinetic energy, not by explosive heat.  Nothing remains to continue burning because it is consumed instantly and there is relativley little explosive actually used. 

In deliberatly demolished buildings there is no "after burn" that is offered to support intentional destruction. No fire at all.  Why do these people think that it would suddenly be present in the WTC?

As for the statement about explosions down below, these planes were trans-continental flights chosed for the attack because they would have full fuel tanks. The center of the WTC is open elevator shafts which could allow thousands of gallons a fuel to rain down, mixing with the air in the shaft. Fires above would create a chimney effect pulling in air to mix with this fuel from the bottom. Kerosene-air mixture would certainly be explosive. Molten metal and sparks and flaming debris from the fires would could rain down the same shafts igniting this mixture in the core of the building.

Also watch the video of the collapse. In each case the towers collapsed down from the point of impact, not from the bottom. The very nature of the structure of the towers with a strong outer steel frame would act as a natural "tunnel" for the loosly connected floors to fall through as they lost support.

There will always be people convinced our government is "out to get them". 

I don't think the government is actually "out to get us", rather, they are out to manipulate us to the benefit of their big money corporate sponsors.  They need us to keep spending money in order for their big donors to rake in the coin.

 Bush & Cheney have taken a tragic event and turned it to personal advantage to the benefit of their oil buddies. Actually I think it was Cheney as Bush is not smart enough.

by Paul Kruger (33 articles, 1 quicklinks, 5 diaries, 275 comments) on Tuesday, August 5, 2008 at 4:46:12 PM
 


Political Activism is a passion but I have earned a living since 1995 through my web page design and hosting business. I also do graphics design and offer business cards, fliers, brochures etc. My most recent venture which can be seen at http://www.locationpromos.com is to provide custom items via my China connections to the souvenir trade.
Paul KrugerPolitical Activism is a passion but I have earned a living since 1995 through my web page design and hosting business. I also do graphics design and offer business cards, fliers, brochures etc. My most recent venture which can be seen at http://www.locationpromos.com is to provide custom items via my China connections to the souvenir trade.

Re the "burning for weeks"

Ask any fire fighter in the hills of West Virginia about a coal mine fire. They have been known to burn for years with no special oxidant other than the air that is drawn in one shaft as smoke poors out another. 

 

WTC had thousands of tons of flamable materials inside a closed space. Heat rises. In the process it creates a chimney effect that sucks in fresh air...in this case through subway tunnels which could supply as much air as was needed to burn until nothing was left.  It was impossible to direct water at the burning materials through all the debris piled on top.

by Paul Kruger (33 articles, 1 quicklinks, 5 diaries, 275 comments) on Tuesday, August 5, 2008 at 4:53:22 PM
 


I'm an artist, a thinker, a wife, a mother, and a grandmother.
VierotchkaI'm an artist, a thinker, a wife, a mother, and a grandmother.

Elevator shafts

From what I understand, the elvator shafts were sealed, there was no one elevator shaft running the whole length of the towers. These shafts were sealed precisely to prevent air being sucked in a chimney effect in case of fire.

by Vierotchka (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 39 comments) on Tuesday, August 5, 2008 at 7:35:01 PM
 


Freelance photographer and writer living in Maine.
Stephen DemetriouFreelance photographer and writer living in Maine.

I think...

you are guessing...

by Stephen Demetriou (6 articles, 0 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 181 comments) on Wednesday, August 6, 2008 at 10:52:21 AM
 


Kent State, Graduate work in philosophy of logic, of science, Ph.D. SIU neuroscientist, forensic neuropsychologist, PostDoc Medical College of Ohio, Preferred activities: Restoring British motorcycles, cars, Matchless, Austin Healey, Triumph, Jaguar, building an engine, programming a computer. Other stuff: SDS 1968, antiwar,911 truth advocate, anticorporatist, anti-classist, anti-neocon, pissed off. Best thing: Father. Blessed.
richardKent State, Graduate work in philosophy of logic, of science, Ph.D. SIU neuroscientist, forensic neuropsychologist, PostDoc Medical College of Ohio, Preferred activities: Restoring British motorcycles, cars, Matchless, Austin Healey, Triumph, Jaguar, building an engine, programming a computer. Other stuff: SDS 1968, antiwar,911 truth advocate, anticorporatist, anti-classist, anti-neocon, pissed off. Best thing: Father. Blessed.

More nonsense from JREF....


Paul stated: 

“As for the statement about explosions down below, these planes were trans-continental flights chosed for the attack because they would have full fuel tanks. The center of the WTC is open elevator shafts which could allow thousands of gallons a fuel to rain down, mixing with the air in the shaft. Fires above would create a chimney effect pulling in air to mix with this fuel from the bottom. Kerosene-air mixture would certainly be explosive. Molten metal and sparks and flaming debris from the fires would could rain down the same shafts igniting this mixture in the core of the building.”

The planes fuel tanks were about half full.

Most of the fuel burned off. Little available to cascade down the -multiple- shafts . Not an ‘open’ elevator shaft. Most did not access the basement level.

Fires were not intense. Ultimately simply burning office furniture. Insufficient.. even by NIST’s own tests, to cause the initiation of collapse. 

You are simply repeating nonsense from JREF.

by richard (0 articles, 5 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 863 comments) on Tuesday, August 5, 2008 at 8:02:35 PM
 


I was born in 1951. I had the benefit of experiencing the naïveté of the 50', The Ozzie and Harriet years, when Dad went to work in a suit and tie and Mom stayed home in
high heals and an apron. Yea, that was life for me. I lived in a predominantly Irish neighborhood in South Boston. My Grandmother and Grandfather came to America from Sicily in the early 1900's and finally settled in "Southie", opening one of the many corner markets, a grocery and butcher shop. They learned English and ma...

to see more of bio, click on member name

PeterJI was born in 1951. I had the benefit of experiencing the naïveté of the 50', The Ozzie and Harriet years, when Dad went to work in a suit and tie and Mom stayed home in
high heals and an apron. Yea, that was life for me. I lived in a predominantly Irish neighborhood in South Boston. My Grandmother and Grandfather came to America from Sicily in the early 1900's and finally settled in "Southie", opening one of the many corner markets, a grocery and butcher shop. They learned English and ma...

to see more of bio, click on member name

Quaint?

Yea, Tom,

and you look so quaint with your little boy scout uniform on. Aren't you a little old to be so easily mis-led by a gang of power-money hungry war mongers with the promise of travel and adventure?

It amazes me that anyone with a brain enough to support themselves can't see past basic physics and common sense, but then, I'll bet you still live with Mommy.

by PeterJ (13 articles, 2 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 165 comments) on Friday, August 8, 2008 at 8:38:49 AM
 


Freelance editor, day-job jack-of-all-trades for more than three decades. Musician, writer, hopelessly addicted reader.
editnetworkFreelance editor, day-job jack-of-all-trades for more than three decades. Musician, writer, hopelessly addicted reader.

"NIST's own tests . . ."

First, note this is sending the fox to investigate the ransacking of the henhouse -- a completely interested party investigating its own branch of government. More or less like the Zelikow (Kean/Hamilton) 9/11 Commission.

I see so many hipshots in this exchange, I want to make a comment about the logic of the so-called 9/11 truth movement:

For the government's scenario (the official conspiracy theory) to stand, it must supply credible answers to the questions addressed to it. It is not necessary for the questioners to put together alternative explanations that satisfactorily answer all these questions in order for them to demonstrate that there are problems with the official explanation.

The multiple reports of (for example) molten metal are simply something to take into account. The official scenario certainly does not contain them as a plausible outcome -- any more than it satisfactorily explains the towers collapsing into their own footprints.

I recommend a book entitled Debunking 9/11 Debunking by David Ray Griffin -- the best summing up of the weaknesses of the official scenario that I've seen, and it builds on two fine preliminary volumes, The New Pearl Harbor and The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions. Any of these books will get you thinking and examining in new ways.

by editnetwork (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 56 comments) on Monday, August 11, 2008 at 5:23:21 PM
 


Democracy is the pre-eminent value of all Americans, our cherished birthright. My work is to help unite the electoral reform movement into a congruent platform which we can push forward as a nation.
GeoRipDemocracy is the pre-eminent value of all Americans, our cherished birthright. My work is to help unite the electoral reform movement into a congruent platform which we can push forward as a nation.

reopen and open several truth commissions

The Kruger "tunnel" hypothesis is ludicrous, no report I've seen refers to the outer walls as strong, quite the contrary.
I didn't see you address the question of why the huge central steel columns were completely collapsed. They were spcifically designed to withstand such an impact. Nothing was left standing.

Do you think that the Bush/Cheney cabal's only interest was oil, and that only in the aftermath did they manipulate the truth? What about the interests of the military indust