Well, where I live we have one of the highest gas tax rates in the country and the roads are in terrible condition, so paying taxes seems to have little to do with roads.

Where I live, we have very high taxes that are supposed to be used to educate “our” children. Well, in the first place, I object to the term “our” in this sense. Society did not breed, individuals did and those children are the responsibility of those breeders, not of “taxpayers.” Also, the ignorance of those being graduated from government schools is prima facie proof that throwing taxpayer money at the teacher’s union does not raise the education level of students, it only lines the pockets of overpaid union members.

Cops? I would just as soon get rid of them all. The courts have ruled that police are under no obligation whatsoever to respond when you call them in an emergency. Ninety-five percent of all the police I have encountered are profoundly ignorant of the law and are simply the dumb muscle of a criminal conspiracy hell-bent on suppressing people and extracting wealth from producers.

Soldiers? Ya right. I feel so much safer having gov.org send troops to the Middle East to murder a million people in my name… N O T.

Firemen? Well, I do appreciate them but believe that private fire suppression companies could do just as good a job for less money.

Like it or not, taxation is theft. The USA was started by a bunch of tax avoiders. Have you ever heard of the Boston Tea Party.

by M. Bennett (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 109 comments [7 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Aug 19, 2008 at 4:02:06 PM

Corporate income tax rate is 35%.  Find one that pays 35%.  The problem on corporate taxes is the loopholes and incentives Congress provides for them not to pay much or not at all.  A GE executive was quoted on one of the years that GE paid no taxes that "he refused to be criticised for fullfulling the will of Congress".  Sad, but lets blame the right horse in this race to reduce taxes.

The Republicans are saying that our corporate taxes are the highest in the industrial and they would reduce them, see below, and the go-along corporate bought Democrats will be scared into it.  But, not only is it not true on a actual basis, they pay for a smaller portion of GDP than do the corporations of our industrial competitor nations. 

McCain calls for cutting the top corporate rate from 35 percent to 25 percent and allowing corporations to write off investments in the first year. Combined, the Tax Policy Center wonks cost these at more than $1.3 trillion over 10 years. Len Burman of the Tax Policy Center estimates that in total, McCain would cut corporate revenues by about 50 percent from current levels.

According to a study by the Treasury Department, from 2000 to 2006, an average of 2.2 percent of GDP was collected in corporate taxes. This compares to an average of 3.4 percent in other industrial countries. The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office projects that, under current law, corporate revenues will decline to 1.9 percent of GDP by 2017.

by Harold Hellickson (15 articles, 0 quicklinks, 8 diaries, 97 comments [8 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Aug 19, 2008 at 4:02:15 PM

The CONSTITUTION allows for tax on capital gains. The income tax is not constitutional. The worker pays up to 60% of his earnings as tax. If You love this elitest corporate welfare wet-dream dont You think You should understand how it started. Here are the orders as presented to Pres. Wilson, although they werent put into effect until FDR confiscated the gold and put the knife in our back.

Edward Mandell House had this to say in a private meeting with Woodrow Wilson (President) [1913-1921]

  “[Very] soon, every American will be required to register their biological property in a National system designed to keep track of the people and that will operate under the ancient system of pledging.  By such methodology, we can compel people to submit to our agenda, which will affect our security as a chargeback for our fiat paper currency.  Every American will be forced to register or suffer not being able to work and earn a living.  They will be our chattel, and we will hold the security interest over them forever, by operation of the law merchant under the scheme of secured transactions.  Americans, by unknowingly or unwittingly delivering the bills of lading to us will be rendered bankrupt and insolvent, forever to remain economic slaves through taxation, secured by their pledges.  They will be stripped of their rights and given a commercial value designed to make us a profit and they will be non the wiser, for not one man in a million could ever figure our plans and, if by accident one or two would figure it out, we have in our arsenal plausible deniability.  After all, this is the only logical way to fund government, by floating liens and debt to the registrants in the form of benefits and privileges.  This will inevitably reap to us huge profits beyond our wildest expectations and leave every American a contributor or to this fraud which we will call “Social Insurance.”  Without realizing it, every American will insure us for any loss we may incur and in this manner; every American will unknowingly be our servant, however begrudgingly.  The people will become helpless and without any hope for their redemption and, we will employ the high office of the President of our dummy corporation to foment this plot against America.”

This is from the diary of "Colonel" Huis. (I dont mean to write this way I cant fix the font) Either You are ignorant of the un-constitutionality of the Social Security and income tax or You "enjoy Your servitude" or You are on food stamps and section 8 and have an interest in prolonging the scam or You are an elitest billionaire parasite.

by john riggs (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 463 comments [24 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Aug 19, 2008 at 4:05:22 PM

Mikel,

That's basically what you're saying.

Rather than repeat myself let me refer you to things I've already posted to this website on the subject of taxation:

Taxation is Slavery

Parasites: Real and Imagined

Bad Logic and Reasoning About Taxes

by Darren Wolfe (15 articles, 401 quicklinks, 141 diaries, 1031 comments [84 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Aug 19, 2008 at 4:20:54 PM

I say tax the super rich thieves especially the war profiteers like hell but end taxation on the lower classes. We the people should also get to decide how our tax money is spent. Under no circumstances should taxes ever be used for corporate welfare.

by Ty (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 888 comments [2 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Aug 19, 2008 at 7:07:11 PM

It is ALWAYS wrong to steal money (taxation) to provide it to another. This is true if the money is going to a corporation or an indigent person.

Regarding income tax on the poor, it does not exist. There are other taxes they pay like Socialist inSecurity, fuel tax, and many of those “corporate taxes” which

A L W A Y S get passed on to the consumers, including the poor.

The solution is to eliminate 90% of the federal government, basically all of the illegal things the government does and let the people decide how to spend our money. Isn’t the USA supposed to be about FREEDOM?

by M. Bennett (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 109 comments [7 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Aug 19, 2008 at 7:43:32 PM

please understand You have opened a sore wound for many of us. Recently My wife and I each had two teeth fixed,the bill came out to eight THOUSAND dollars,8000.00 dllrs. Now an immigrant single mother has food stamps,section 8 housing,WIC,Medicaid and free dental for herself and the kids. I consider myself a liberal and left of center, but I am really POed about this crap. The bible states "he who does not work should not eat". So we have a political upper class and the lower class sucking the govt. teat and a middle class footing the bill and being systematically destroyed. 

We are all on this road of life and some of us are farther along than others. If You state Your views on taxation out of ignorance then there is hope for You and I wish for You to come to the knowledge of the truth. God has caused Me to prosper even in this hideous system that we have inherited, but that does not make it right.

by john riggs (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 463 comments [24 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Aug 19, 2008 at 8:36:33 PM

by Drew Terry (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 28 diaries, 125 comments [2 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Tuesday, Aug 19, 2008 at 10:58:46 PM

Preach this to the corporations, not the poor.

by Nick van Nes (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 596 comments [150 recommended, 1 rejected]) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 8:02:20 AM

when it comes to being robbed by the US government, we are taxed when we are born, we are taxed on our medication to keep us well, we are taxed on the food that we eat to stay alive, our homes are taxed, our cars are taxed, the gasoline we use to drive our cars is taxed, we are taxed to pay for the schools whether or not we have children... We are taxed for the clothes we wear, any sort of recreation we decide to do is taxed in some way or other, our income is taxed, if we should sell a house, which was paid for by income that was taxed, we are taxed on any gains we made, despite the fact that we need to buy another house to replace the first one, and the price of ALL houses have gone up, not just the one we sold...

We pay taxes when we get married, we have the marriage penalty tax, we are taxed when we get divorced...

If someone should leave us something when they die, we have to pay taxes on that something despite the fact that it was purchased with income that was taxed.

Finally, we are taxed when we die.......

_______________________________________

 
In the mean time, we have politicians who tell us what they are spending out money on, BUT if we complain, we are told:  "you need to build alliances with other coalitions."  which is code for:  "The other side pays more than you can afford."  Our Government knows that everyone is hurting, but instead of taking less, from us in Taxes, our government taxes more...  Instead of SPENDING less, our government spends more.

If we try to vote these politicians out, we have two big parties that take pride in ensuring that NO competition will be allowed on the ballot.  YET the PEOPLE crying out for choices are considered "UnAmerican" for being disinclined to pay taxes.

I have news..  people go to JAIL if they do not pay ALL of their taxes, even in a protest...  (not that anyone could ever escape most taxes)  people go to JAIL if they do not give up their 5th amendment rights against self incrimination by filling out their tax form....  People who become SLAVES of the state in that same process and they are called "UnAmerican" for being disinclined to pay all of their taxes...

Companies are sometimes allowed to get away without paying taxes, NOT the people in the companies, just the companies themselves...  Being in business for myself, My business income is taxed, and then my individual income is taxed..  In essence, I am taxed twice on the same money.  I think it sucks, but when I hear that some companies get a year off from paying taxes, I don't complain...  Instead, I say GOOD!  Maybe I can be next.

Ciao, CZ

by steve scheetz (4 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 829 comments [52 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 9:11:47 AM

It never fails, these kinds of articles are guaranteed to bring out every libertarian/anarchist (really, the later is just an extention of the former) in the neighborhood to rant and rave about the "unconstitutionality" of our tax system.  Well, here's a thought: have you considered that you are just plain wrong?  I personally like the idea of having public services (read public schools, libraries, fire departments, garbage collectors, public health safeguards, etc, etc, etc).  I find your argumets tedious, self-centered and unconvincing.  Like it or not, there are things that I as a single citizen cannot do for myself, I can't control the quality of the air that I breath, I can't control for the quality and safety of the drugs that are prescribed for me, I can't control the quality and safety of the water that is necessary for life.  I expect my government to do those things as part of a social contract for which I, in return, agree to pay my fair share of taxes.   We could possibly agree that a lot of our tax dollars are mis-spent, which they certainly are, we could collaborate on a plan to safe-guard against that, but that is not something you apparently are interested in.  You would prefer to dismantle the goverment instead.  For you, it really is "all about the money". 

bmobley

by bmobley (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 30 comments) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 10:56:57 AM

being secure in our persons and property etc. etc. If You have not noticed we are living in a militarized police state. It appears that rather than us being anarchists, You are a fascist.

by john riggs (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 463 comments [24 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 12:56:19 PM

That's an old one. Trying to say libertarians stand for atomized individuals going it alone. We stand for free individuals associating voluntarily. In other words, working together to make things better.

I like those services you mention too. That's why I want them privately provided. Not bungled by the same gang that brought us FEMA ( New orleans thanks them). Try this for a better way to do things.

by Darren Wolfe (15 articles, 401 quicklinks, 141 diaries, 1031 comments [84 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 3:47:26 PM

I personally like the idea of having public services (read public schools, libraries, fire departments, garbage collectors, public health safeguards, etc, etc, etc). I find your argumets tedious, self-centered and unconvincing. Like it or not, there are things that I as a single citizen cannot do for myself, I can't control the quality of the air that I breath, I can't control for the quality and safety of the drugs that are prescribed for me, I can't control the quality and safety of the water that is necessary for life. I expect my government to do those things as part of a social contract for which I, in return, agree to pay my fair share of taxes.

You call my arguments tedius and old hat YET, it is obvious that you never read my arguments. Nowhere did I challenge the Constitutionality of the tax system. Why? We are paying for the Patriot Act... Any argument about taxes being unconstitutional would probably end with my phone being tapped.

You like having a public school system that turns out kids who can barely read their diplomas? Libraries and Fire departments are mostly run by local municipalities, though they could be run better by the private sector. Garbage Collectors? I don't know where you live, but where I live, we have 7 different waste management companies that pick up the garbage. We pay them, they come and pick up the trash... Given that there have been anthrax scares at the capitol building YET you want to trust the government with public health safeguards? We have an FDA that takes money from the Pharmaceutical Industry to keep dangerous drugs ON the market....

The Food and Drug Administration voted overwhelmingly to keep the diabetes drug Avandia on the market, despite its known deadly effects. http://www.naturalnews.com/021959.html

There are literally hundreds of examples of this, I offer 1 for the sake of saving space, but you should get the idea....

We have a government that.... Well, the record stands for itself... you trust government with the air that YOU breathe?

Sir, it is YOUR arguments which are so completely wrong, you blather on about how great the public school system is, yet our students are FAILING by comparison against the students from foreign countries... Do YOU know where Nebraska is? 56% of class 2008 does not. You need government to provide libraries for you? Did it ever occur that your community could build a library without the government? Given the massive number of articles on the internet and on many databases, Students have the ability to learn rapidly and at a far more reasonable price than the text book industry charges schools, YET government run schools do not consider that as a viable option.

Your fair share of taxes... you can pay all the taxes you want, I will not complain... However, I have real solutions to the size of government, and it does NOT include raising taxes on the people of the United States.

Libertarians are looking for a more private sector solution to problems the cause of which happens to be the government. Your arguments are VERY tedious, but it is what I expect from a product of the current public school system.

Ciao, CZ

by steve scheetz (4 articles, 0 quicklinks, 3 diaries, 829 comments [52 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 at 5:24:54 PM

Thanks for being so enthusiastic. I still don't understand the argument against caring about your country and your fellow man by sharing with the whole to make things better for all. Sure i HATE many aspects of the way things run in this US and stupidity, self -interest and greed are huge problems in government as well as in the private sector; but that doesn't mean i'm going to stop buying beer anymore than i am going to stop paying the sales tax on it. . This semi-limping system is better than no system at all. Those who argue against paying taxes because of poor performing schools are as one writer quipped "turning reality on its head." The reason we have the crappy schools that we have now is because they don't have enough money. All the schools i know have had to cut back on staff and supplies these last few years because of lack of funds, though we do own a great big useless war. It's the the indviduals working in the system that are broken and they've weakened the whole contraption, but it can be fixed with a different crowd in power, yet it can't solve anything without money. Remember: form a more perfect union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, secure the blessings of liberty for ourselves and our posterity: that's what government's supposed to do, that's the purpose of America. Note how many pluralistic adjectives there are there: "common," "general," "domestic," "ourselves AND our posterity." That is a lot of looking out for the other guy, a lot of giving of one's self for the good of others. I'm not making this stuff up, it's the flipping Preamble and all six parts cost money. Where will the government get it? From us, the US.

--yzur--

by mikel weisser (49 articles, 3 quicklinks, 15 diaries, 87 comments [3 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Thursday, Aug 21, 2008 at 12:00:05 AM

Caring for your fellow man & voluntarily sharing with them is great. Forcing people to part with their money (which is stealing & also taxation) so you can give it to others is morally wrong. Not only that it results in tragedy. The economy slows, impoverishing us all, including the ones you're trying to help.

Let's look at your underfunded schools idea. First, it costs less to send a child to a private school than a public one, yet the private scholls do better. Not only that the public schools are top heavy with administrative jobs thanks to the teacher's union.  That's not even counting the cost of the federal dept of Ed.

Then you trot out the old if-only-the-right-people-were-in-power bromide. It doesn't matter whose in  power, government doesn't work. It's the nature of the beast. In a nutshell, they don't have a balance sheet (profits or losses) to tell them what to do or not to do like businesses do. They take people's money, like it or not. They deliver their services, like it or not. See here.

As to the Constitution, you're ignoring the restrictions that that document places on the govrnments actions (9th & 10th Amendments). As the Democratic President Grover Cleveland said:

I can find no warrant for such an appropriation [federal aid to drought-stricken Texas farmers] in the Constitution, and I do not believe that the power and duty of the General Government ought to be extended to the relief of individual suffering which is in no manner properly related to the public service or benefit...The friendliness and charity of our countrymen can always be relied upon to relieve their fellow-citizens in misfortune...Federal aid in such cases encourages the expectation of paternal care on the part of the government and weakens the sturdiness of our national character, while it prevents the indulgence among our people of that kindly sentiment and conduct which strengthen the bond of a common brotherhood.     

Better that we take care of people voluntarily. See here.

Next time you should better inform yourself lest I make a fool of you again. ;-)

by Darren Wolfe (15 articles, 401 quicklinks, 141 diaries, 1031 comments [84 recommended, 0 rejected]) on Friday, Aug 22, 2008 at 10:47:17 AM

It was painful to read your article. All opinion & no information. Please get informed on this subject before you write another one. It's embarrassing.

by Kim McDaniel (6 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 30 comments) on Thursday, Aug 21, 2008 at 2:37:51 AM