Here's why I think the "Accountability" is a big "hoopla":

Congress wants us to believe that they are horrified and may well open up investigations into extraordinary renditions and torture cases.

 And while this is very good news, and I agree, the fact is that Congress themselves voted for the Military Commissions Act, or the torture bill, which grants the Prez immunity from prosecution as war criminal while he unilaterally "interprets" the Constitution and Geneva Conventions, which provide us with a guide concerning what forms torture takes. www.aclu.org see Military Commission Act fact sheets (enter into search box).

Thus, it was Congress itself which gave Bush the powers to torture, by his own unilateral decree. Why is Congress acting so surprised and why is it such a "revelation" that Bush presided over and approved individual torture cases? Make no mistake about it: This is old news. Congress has known all along.

If they are only now opening up investigations into the matter, they are doing a very evil thing because those "tortured "(what a euphemism) suffer "pain levels equivalent to severe organ failure and death" as defined in the Military Commissions Act.

Waterboarding is a distraction from much worse matters.
Try, for example:
Being hooked up to a generator, which is fed into your nude derriere and basically electrocutes you from the inside. Violent all-body shaking is the yield, in many cases resulting in death.

Try being told you will be electrocuted if you dont' sustain some not only uncomfortable, but practically impossible and damaging positions for hours or days at a time

 Try being bitten up and down your nude body by dogs, including in the abdomen. which is called "walking the dog"

And how about a "belly slap" or a "head slap" which is done with steel cables two inches thick.

Waterboarding fades by comparison, however serious it may be.

What's going on is violent criminality which far exceeds what even most gangs would do, and "Torture" is not the right word to use.

Time to call Congress on their act. They are faking us out. But at least they are investigating and it's about time. Lovely of them to have waited this long, eh? Very ethical of them, eh? Well, better late than never....Thank god!

But maybe they all could use some good psychoanalysis and should be locked up, because actually they are very dangerous people. Obviously they don't care if someone is being "tortured" except to redeem their own image...after they themselves allowed it to continue unchecked, and after acting so surprised about what they knew all along. These people really need professional help, about 85% of them!

Time for all of us to start reading up about legislation and checking the Congressional voting record? If yes, then read teh ACLU's website. It's an amazing education and I wish every American would refer to it. We'd have a different nation if everybody read it before going to the polls...and trusting politicians at their word.

by Kathryn Smith (93 articles, 2 quicklinks, 38 diaries, 361 comments) on Sunday, June 8, 2008 at 11:51:20 PM
 

Torture Bush

They say the real problem with torture is that the confessions are not reliable. Victims being tortured will ultimately say anything, true or not, to get the torture to stop. I know I would. The hell with patriotism. Stop the pain. They should hijack Bush and Cheney, hold them forever, with no access to council, waterboard them, get their confessions, (that they illegally approved the torturing), and then let it be part of the official record for impeachment. It would be fun to hear their defense, that they were tortured into their confessions. I rest my case. The fact that this administration feels torture is OK shows the great disconnect between a true, Power-to-the-People democracy, that it so patriotically (and pathetically) praises, and the dictatorship it represents. How ironic that in his War on Terrorism, Bush finds it necessary to break all the rules of democracy. And yet still no impeachment? Pelosi, Reid and Conyers must go, as well as all the other reps not in favor of impeachment. Broadcast their names please, for the sake of all those who have given their lives for our country.

by Nick van Nes (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 113 comments) on Monday, June 9, 2008 at 1:53:09 AM
 

We can't let this be minimized

We also need to put an end to all this American exceptionalism and remember our roots.

The International Criminal Court's American Exception

And understand that the Rights of Man belong to everyone.

They can do it to all of us.

by JC Garrett (38 articles, 62 quicklinks, 6 diaries, 558 comments) on Monday, June 9, 2008 at 3:37:46 AM
 

Accountability

Thank you Stephen for this blog.  I have become so disillusioned with a party who is "right to life" when it comes to the unborn as I am, but whose other actions clearly are not kind or compassionate.  I see them now as gun-toting hunters who care only about their "sport" which is not really a sport at all because it pits defenseless animals in places where they don't even have a fighting chance.  As for compassionate animal legislation, I don't look to them or even one of my own Senators from Ohio to respond in any meaningly way.  He and other Republicans often vote against any compassionate legislation for them. 

Originally leaning towards John McCain, I did an about face when I heard that he approved of waterboarding.  I was incredulous.  He suffered torture under the Vietnamese and now says it is all right for us to treat prisoners in the same way?  I got a campaign call just yesterday  from one of his people and and I cut him off quickly.  I told him that I could not support anyone who thinks waterboarding is appropriate under any circumstances.  

by Suzana Megles (37 articles, 0 quicklinks, 4 diaries, 130 comments) on Monday, June 9, 2008 at 8:18:34 AM
 

Accountability

Susan:

I am not a McCain supporter, but I think it is important to get one thing right, John McCain has NEVER supported waterboarding.  It is an outright fabrication to say he does or has.  McCain came out against Waterboarding and called it torture even while this administration and many in the Republican Party were fine with it.  There are many issues where John McCain and I disagree, but his steadfast disapproval of waterboarding and his early labeling of it as torture is one area where I think most Americans would agree with him.

John McCain was tortured and he still suffers the effects from it as seen by his posture and inability to raise his arms up.  A staunch supporter of John McCain once told me, "look, if John McCain says waterboarding is torture he ought to know better than anyone."  I couldn't agree more.  John McCain, for all his faults, does appreciate the value and dignity of human life.  It is many of the hardcore Conservatives in his party who do not.

 

by Peter Wedlund (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 167 comments) on Monday, June 9, 2008 at 9:01:16 AM
 

Accountability for Torture at Last?

I doubt it.  I could not be more disappointed with this Congress because of its relative lack on action on the numerous violations of our US Constitution and breaking of International laws by this administration.  I agree with Kathryn, water boarding is probably the least of the torture violations, and we know of not one but several renditions of innocent people who were subsequently tortured in foreign prisons.  The movie "Taxi to the dark side" documents some of the more severe examples of the torture policy approved of by this administration.  The torture alone should have been enough to bring impeachment hearings, but the abuse of power goes far beyond that. 

We have the violations of the 1978 FISA law. We have unlawful imprisoning of a US citizen without due process which violates the 14th amendment.  We have violation of the 1939 Hatch Act which forbids use of Government departments for political purposes.  We have obstruction of justice by telling Federal Employee's they don't have to even show up for a subpoena by a Congressional Committee, which violates US Code 18, Chapter 73 of our Federal laws.  We have destruction of federal documents to avoid Congressional oversight which also violates the US Code 18 laws.  We have mismanagement and malfeasance within multiple Government offices.  We have gross misrepresentation of the facts as recently documented by a Senate subcommittee looking into the Iraq intelligence and justification for that war. 

No demands for accountability is a blatant effort to maintain the status quo and make no change.  No accountability means abuse of power, waste, fraud and mismanagement in government are not worthy of addressing.  It's not like Congressional Representatives in Washington aren't totally aware these multiple examples of abuse or violations, they are.  They have just decided to do little to nothing to demand accountable.  Accountability in government has become "a political issue" instead of a fundamental requirement for "sound government".  Small wonder things just keep getting worse, and worse and worse.  Don't look for much change if many of the same individuals in Congress now are returned to Congress in the fall.  It is clear from their actions (or lack thereof) that Party interests trump the people's interests.  Their interests in re-election trump our interests for "good government".  They have taken "accountability in government" and simply swept it under the "rug of indifference". 

 

by Peter Wedlund (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 167 comments) on Monday, June 9, 2008 at 10:34:28 AM
 

Holding Bush Accountable for his Crimes

We need to keep the pressure on and keep fighting the powers that be if we are to save this country from tyranny and apathy.  We have already lost so much and will continue to as long as we sit still for the insanity that has come to feel normal for too many. 

Letters must be written, calls should be made, marches and rally's must be held.  Keep the pressure on.   And sign every petition you can find in support of prosecuting this criminal bunch.

www.petitiontoprosecutegwb.blogspot.com  and www.Democrats.com

 

by Linda Alvarez (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 8 comments) on Monday, June 9, 2008 at 12:24:21 PM
 

McCain and waterboarding: Yes he DOES approve! Proof:

Hello Peter Wedlund et al

I am sorry to say that, not by hear-say but by Congressional voting record, McCain *does* approve of waterboarding and torture in the broadest sense. I know that is very hard to believe of any man who himself was tortured, but the Congressional voting record is proof:

McCain voted for the Military Commissions Act (torture bill) plus he specifically voted against Sen. Chris Dodd's bill titled "Restore the Constitution Act" which would have restored habeas corpus.  So not only did McCain vote for torture and war crimes immunity to the Prez, but he specifically voted against the right of detainees to challenge the legal grounds for their detention.

The Patriot Act defines "terrorist" to include activists and vocal citizens. Warrantless wiretapping means there is no judge to oversee the process. Thus, many innocent people end up being dubbed as "terrorists" with only a newspaper photograph to "prove" their guilt----and everybody automatically believes it!! God how mindless this is. It's time for us to think again and please spread word!!

Current prisoners of war ("terrororists", more than 80% of whom have been PROVEN innocent, according to the Red Cross's estimate. Plus the ACLU and Center for Constitutional Rights join in stating that MOST of them are in fact innocent) don't get to attend their own "trials", confessions coerced under near-death "torture" conditions are admitted to this "trial" in their absence, and they have no right to speak up in their own defense. Those lucky enough to have a lawyer are barred access to them. They are told (as part of the torture tactic) that they will never get out of there, cigarette butts are put out using their bodies as ashtrays (the least of their worries) and then when they commit suicide, the government manages to point fingers at the deceased detainee.

The moral of the story is:
Folks, we simply cannot trust hear-say and public images/beliefs when standing for or against any politician. In McCain's case, it would be very easy to believe that he is against torture. Not so. Once again, the voting records prove it. Check it out for yourself: I use the ACLU"s Congressional voting scorecard as reference www.aclu.org click on the link to the SCorecard at the bottom of the page. But you can use any source you want for proof.

 PLEASE ALWAYS REFER TO THE CONGRESSIONAL VOTING RECORD BEFORE TALKING ABOUT ANY POLITICIAN, VOTING FOR ANY OF THEM, ETC THIS IS OF *DIRE* IMPORTANCE, EVEN A MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH! PLEASE!! PLEASE PASS WORD ALONG ASKING OTHERS TO DO THE SAME. THANK YOU!

by Kathryn Smith (93 articles, 2 quicklinks, 38 diaries, 361 comments) on Monday, June 9, 2008 at 2:30:24 PM
 

Important book of note

http://www.amazon.com/Torture-Democracy-Darius-Rejali/dp/0691114226

Torture and Democracy by Darius Rejali

 I must say, the actions of the American Psychology Association has HORRRIFIED me more than anything during the past eight years.

Considering that the American Psychiatry Association pulled out colluding at the black sites, this rationalization that they are "saving lives" is .. well ..

I hope to see those involved stand trial at our upcoming NUREMBERG ....

And to think, even today there are those STILL being tortured !!

I was captive in an INS office and given threats of my children being tortured if didn't say what was demanded and have it recorded.  I assure you - there is nothing more frightening in the world than that.

I found it unbelievable but my psychoanalyst and my husband's analysts (both APA members) both walked away and refused to give testimony in my behalf !  They weren't going to stand up to a US Senator ..

Definitely time for a TRUTH COMMISSION on health matters- it's not JUST detainees who are tortured ... These attacks on CITIZENS must stop as well.

 

 

 

by ladybroadoak (38 articles, 20 quicklinks, 12 diaries, 391 comments) on Monday, June 9, 2008 at 5:04:29 PM
 

Torture issues and McCain

Kathryn:

You are correct that McCain did support the Military Commissions Act and he did vote against the specific inclusion of water boarding and habeas corpus provisions in that bill.  However, the actual act states: 

‘‘(b) EXCLUSION OF STATEMENTS OBTAINED BY TORTURE.—A statement obtained by use of torture shall not be admissible in a military commission under this chapter, except against a person accused of torture as evidence that the statement was made.

In other words, the only thing that can be done with evidence obtained by torture is to convict the person responsible for the torture.  McCain was appalled by the Bush administration doing virtually anything they wanted to convict enemy combatants, including the use of torture against them. McCain has long viewed water boarding as torture and the Military Commisions Act did in fact disavow the use of torture as evidence in those military trials.  I'm not sure why McCain was against even stronger language with regard to a specific statement on water boarding in the bill or habeas corpus.  Perhaps it was the way the amendments were worded or because he could not alienate too many Republicans and still get the bill passed, giving Bush carte blanch to do whatever he had been doing.  McCain has stated on several occassions publically he considers water boarding to be "TORTURE" and I take him at his word, not what people want to read into a bill he has supported or amendment he did not support.  Bills are a lot more complicated to interpret since bills have lots of language and not ever aspect will be agreeable to everyone.

I was disappointed McCain did not go further to oppose the Bush administration on what was acceptable practice for military trials at GITMO.  However, at the time Republicans still controlled Congress (Sept. 2006) and if you are a historian you will recall it was McCain who voiced the loudest opposition to the Bush Administration prior to the Military Commissions Act.  This bill was a compromise with the Republican party which up to then had allowed Bush to do virtaully anything he wanted.   I think it would be wrong to take this bill as proof McCain supports water boarding.  The fact torture was disallowed as evidence in the trials was a result of his efforts to put some limits on the wayward Bush Administration.  That he didn't go further probably says a lot more about the political control in the Senate and House at the time than McCain's beliefs. 

by Peter Wedlund (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 167 comments) on Monday, June 9, 2008 at 7:20:35 PM