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Peter Ludlow on Systemic Evil, Whistleblowers, and hacktivism-- Intvw Transcript

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R.K.: So, in other words, these systems, these organizations, be they corporations or agencies, they create or they flush out psychopaths and psychopathic behavior.  Is that what you're saying?

P.L.: Well, to me, flush out means getting rid of and so what they do is they flush out -

R.K.:No when I think flush out I mean get it out and make it visible.  They -

P.L.: Oh right!

R.K.: - exposed it, they get it to manifest more openly and brazenly.  So yeah okay, I won't use flush out.

P.L.: Yeah, I mean it is, let me use a word like filter, because what they do is, they filter out the people of conscience because people of conscience are not that useful to an organization, right?  And the people that are capable of compartmentalizing things and being able to not listen to their conscience, those are the ones that sort of keep percolating up the chain of command within an organization.

R.K.: And what I've been trying to struggle with is we know that there are millions of psychopaths in America.  Eight million sociopaths, you put together the psychopaths and sociopaths and narcissists, you've got three or four or five percent of the population and it's next to nothing what we know about them except that nothing works to heal them or can cure them and that we're doing almost nothing to deal with them.  It seems like, it's almost like it's getting worse and worse, we're protecting them and there's a new Monsanto Protection Act coming out -

P.L.: Yes.

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R.K.: - Laws protecting companies that do bad -

P.L.: Sure.  Right.  We're not doing anything to solve the problem, we're promoting those people and making them our bosses is what we're doing and you're absolutely right.  We're in a period, I don't think anyone who is honest can dispute that what we're witnessing is a period of regulatory capture by which I mean the government of the United States has in effect been bought by corporations and so rather than having people be elected by concerned citizens, it's now basically that the strings of government are being pulled by people with money which typically are these psychopaths that you're talking about,  and the strings are being pulled not to help the American people but they're being pulled to help the corporations that they happen to be a part of, and they're concerned about their own interests and the interests of their organization.

R.K.: Frightening.  We're promoting psychopaths.  So in your article you talk about the millennials.  Let's talk about something hopeful here.  It seems like there's something hopeful happening with the millenials.

P.L.: I think that's right, yeah.  I call them Generation W because it was a generation of people who came of age in, well I guess during George W Bush's presidency but also in the age of Wiki-leaks and the age of whistleblowers and I think that there is a real kind of millennial shift here because sometimes it takes a real traumatic event to get a generational rift.  

I think we've in effect had a real traumatic rift with the prosecution of the Bush wars, 9/11, the huge hit that the economy took, just as a lot of people, a lot of these people were coming out on the job market and I know a number of people who lost their jobs during that big crash that happened at the end of Bush's second term and they ended up drifting in to the Occupy Movements, and started becoming politically active.  

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So I think there really is a generational rift.  It's not just the young people versus the old people, there is a new way of thinking about these things.  

R.K.: A new way of thinking about these things, talk more about that.

P.L.: I think the new way of thinking, I mean we're all starting to understand how organizations work a bit better and it's becoming more and more obvious that institutions that we're supposed to trust are not trustworthy, and it's very difficult to have any trust in the United States government at this point because I mean, lies just keep coming and furthermore it's very clear that it's not working on behalf of the American people, it's just working for corporations.  

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Rob Kall has spent his adult life as an awakener and empowerer-- first in the field of biofeedback, inventing products, developing software and a music recording label, MuPsych, within the company he founded in 1978-- Futurehealth, and founding, organizing and running 3 conferences: Winter Brain, on Neurofeedback and consciousness, Optimal Functioning and Positive Psychology (a pioneer in the field of Positive Psychology, first presenting workshops on it in 1985) and Storycon Summit Meeting on the Art Science and Application of Story-- each the first of their kind.  Then, when he found the process of raising people's consciousness and empowering them to take more control of their lives  one person at a time was too slow, he founded which has been the top search result on Google for the terms liberal news and progressive opinion for several years. Rob began his Bottom-up Radio show, broadcast on WNJC 1360 AM to Metro Philly, also available on iTunes, covering the transition of our culture, business and world from predominantly Top-down (hierarchical, centralized, authoritarian, patriarchal, big)  to bottom-up (egalitarian, local, interdependent, grassroots, archetypal feminine and small.) Recent long-term projects include a book, Bottom-up-- The Connection Revolution, debillionairizing the planet and the Psychopathy Defense and Optimization Project. 

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Over 200 podcasts are archived for downloading here, or can be accessed from iTunes. Rob is also published regularly on the

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Great interview and worthwhile stuff right down to... by paulvcassidy on Tuesday, Dec 3, 2013 at 1:51:42 PM