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Psychopaths and Narcissists-- Overcoming the Inhuman Minority; Ian Hughes Interview Transcript, Part 2

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R.K.: Okay.  Now we're going to wrap up here.  Your last chapter I believe is called Leadership Through Humanity; Overcoming the Inhuman Minority Among Us.  Now, one thing I have been struggling with in my exploration of sociopaths and psychopaths and personality disorders, is what do we do about them?  How do we prevent them from doing the damage that they do?  How do we protect ourselves from them?  I think this is what you address to some extent here.  Can you answer my question and talk about that last chapter?

I.H.: I think we're already a long way along the road, Rob.  I think our predecessors in terms of our, the people in the United States where a lot of it began, you know the foundation of representative democracy, the separation of church and state, the again the human rights legislation, the UN Declaration of Human Rights, we're a long way along the road in terms of having figured out what we need to put in place in order to contain this minority.  It's the application of that.  

It's putting those principles and those institutions into place and putting them into place on a global level and that's extremely difficult to do whenever you have still so many leaders and so many countries and governments and so forth that have these people in control.  It's extremely difficult, but I think we can end on a hopeful note in terms of that we're learning that this minority exists, we're learning what it is that we need to do in order to contain them, and as I said I think we need to learn a bit more that violence isn't the answer too.  That violence only exacerbates the situation in very many cases.  

We have to be smarter about how we deal with them and we have to be united in how we deal with them.  Now I'm characterizing this struggle as being one that's gone on through history and has really taken off in this last couple of hundred years, but it's not a struggle between the United States on one hand and whoever, Iran on the other or between particular nationalities, it's not a struggle between particular sects within Islam,  Sunni and Shia and so forth, all of those division aren't actually the big picture.  

The big picture is the division between psychologically normal people and psychologically disordered people and the way in which the psychologically disordered are fitting into the niches and the propaganda and the ideology across the whole range of areas, that has us confused.  That has us confused as to who the real enemy is and so I think, once we begin to learn and see what the real struggle is between the majority who want to have a more fair and peaceful and humane world, and the minority for who that would be a total anathema , then we can begin to make more progress.  

R.K.: You say in this chapter the strongest protection is also the most logical, to ensure that individuals with dangerous personality disorders do not achieve positions of power or influence at any level of society, within communities, within organizations, or within nations.  I agree with you.  How do we do that?

I.H.: I think I also say I think the followup from that if I remember correctly, is that a lot has to change before we can do that.  A lot has to change in terms of how we select our leaders, what we value in our leaders and what, how the cultures that we build and the level of intolerance that we put up with within our own societies and so forth.  

So I think there's no easy solution.  We have to begin to recognize that we have to change our behavior in terms of what we look to in leaders and so forth and  I think culture is the key.  Certainly may be different in terms of the level of violence, in some societies we need to reduce the level of violence, but in the United Stated and Europe and so forth, I think the key is culture.  

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We need to be demanding more equality from our leaders.  We need to be demanding leaders who are creating societies that we want to see, and those societies that I argue are societies that the majority want based on the majority psychology are very different from the societies that the psychologically disordered want.

R.K.: I have to tell you here you have a brilliant book.  You've pulled together so many ideas in a way that I haven't seen done by anybody else.  There are people who talk about psychopaths and some who talk about the narcissists and some who talk about corporate psychopaths, but you've pulled together a big picture here that is truly brilliant and that could change the world and I can't encourage you enough.  

You need to get this book out there.  You know you can publish it on Amazon and sell it the way it is and then you may just do fabulously well with that.  

You've got to make your decision on your business model for getting this book out there but it needs to be out there and you need to be out in front of people speaking to audiences and talking about this.  You've got me really waxing enthusiastic about what you're saying and doing here.

I.H.: I really appreciate that Rob.  

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R.K: Anything you want to wrap up with now?  Because we've got to wrap up this.

I.H.: Well I guess I've got the website which is disorderedworld and I'm also on Twitter as disorderedworld so I'd like people to follow and join in the conversation on the blog and  go on there and comment and let's have a discussion on this because there's a lot that we still have to learn together.  

There's no easy answers as we've seen in this interview, as to what we do about this but a lot of it is about  learning about what we're facing and getting the message out there as you say and the consciousness about what it is that we're facing and then together coming up with the solution as to how we minimize the threat.

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Rob Kall has spent his adult life as an awakener and empowerer-- first in the field of biofeedback, inventing products, developing software and a music recording label, MuPsych, within the company he founded in 1978-- Futurehealth, and founding, organizing and running 3 conferences: Winter Brain, on Neurofeedback and consciousness, Optimal Functioning and Positive Psychology (a pioneer in the field of Positive Psychology, first presenting workshops on it in 1985) and Storycon Summit Meeting on the Art Science and Application of Story-- each the first of their kind. Then, when he found the process of raising people's consciousness and empowering them to take more control of their lives one person at a time was too slow, he founded which has been the top search result on Google for the terms liberal news and progressive opinion for several years. Rob began his Bottom-up Radio show, broadcast on WNJC 1360 AM to Metro Philly, also available on iTunes, covering the transition of our culture, business and world from predominantly Top-down (hierarchical, centralized, authoritarian, patriarchal, big) to bottom-up (egalitarian, local, interdependent, grassroots, archetypal feminine and small.) Recent long-term projects include a book, Bottom-up-- The Connection Revolution, debillionairizing the planet and the Psychopathy Defense and Optimization Project.

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