K.F.: Yup. Undermining is, funnily enough it wasn't even my phrase to start out with. Underminers, it came from when I was working with my publisher from Time's Up and I used the word sabotage a lot and my editor said to me, we've got a few problems with this word, it's a blunt instrument, it doesn't describe what it is, it has too many negative connotations to it, is there another way we can look at it, is there another word we can use? What about Undermining? And thinking about it, I was a bit cold to it at the beginning but it is perfect.
It describes not only the metaphorical aspect of it, this idea that you are trying to take away from the bottom constantly but these are processes, a real thing that you can, you can't attack these great systems, these great structures head on, it's really not going to work, you're not powerful enough to do that.
The only way that we're going to really get to return humanity to a decent way of living is to look at those tools of disconnection and get people to realize what's going on. Allow people to be connected again because once you connect people, once you take away all the things that are masking that need that humanity really has to be connected, then you end up with awareness.
You end up with open eyes. You end up with people who are, who realize that this is actually the potential for humanity. It's not blasting yourself out into space, it's not modifying genes, it's not trying to create the smaller and smallest technologies with the most power possible, that is not humanity, that is just civilization. What we're trying to do, what I am trying to achieve with Underminers...
R.K.: You know I agree with you.
K.F.: What I am trying to do within Underminers, is to give people the ability to do this for themselves so while there are people, a relatively small number of people who are prepared to do something to help other people to do things, we're getting into a cycle here, a very powerful cycle whereby reconnecting people then they can help reconnect other people and that is what undermining is about.
It's not attacking head-on. It's not sabotage as my editor correctly said. It's something far more insidious. It's something far more powerful. And it's also something that everyone can do, which I think is wonderful. There are small actions which potentially have very powerful side effects and knock on effects. So the idea of undermining, it's a very collective thing.
It has very many aspects to it and the book is a, it really is a hand book really. It's a guide. It goes into the nuts and bolts of it. It tells you why we should be doing it. It gives lots of warnings. It tries to protect people, it's understanding the process of how undermining works. And once that's over with, it's like the, I suppose with a cookbook.
At the beginning it describes the equipment and it describes how the ingredients work together and how the, how things are -- (phone ringing ) I'm sorry Rob, you're going to have to edit this out, I can't do anything about it.
R.K.: It's perfect. It's the technology disrupting -
K.F.: It's horrible. It's really irritating. Let me see what's happened. I have been disconnected.
I am just going to take things away. Back to life.
R.K.: I hear you.
K.F.: Right, okay. Where was I?
R.K.: You can get back to what disconnection does.
K.F.: Right. Okay.
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