Further, the United States was never meant to be a “Christian Nation” as radical Evangelical’s would have you believe. There is a distinct separation of church and state that the courts have recognized - and even so by the United States government. This was a post by a member of the Blue Lemur Political forum:
Well that was easy thanks to Wikipedia
Article 11
The Treaty is notable for Article 11, from Joel Barlow’s English translation, which reads:
“As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.”
Article 11 has been a point of contention regarding the proper interpretation of the doctrine of separation of church and state. It is generally considered as confirmation that the government of the United States was specifically intended to be religiously neutral. The United States Constitution specifically states that treaties with foreign powers have the force of law.
In 1930, there was contention that the existent original Arabic version of Article was gibberish and that the original Article 11 was not an article at all, but a letter from the Dey of Algiers to the Pasha of Tripoli. This contention arises from the declaration within this article that the United States was never founded as a Christian nation. Nevertheless it is established that Joel Barlow’s English translation of Article 11, as recorded in the certified copy of January 4, 1797, is contained in the version of the treaty that was approved by President John Adams and Secretary of State Timothy Pickering and ratified by the Senate.
There exists an additional certified copy of the original Arabic Treaty made by James Cathcart. This copy confirms that Article 11 was not a part of the Arabic original, but was for some reason revised in the English translation that was ultimately ratified.
The Treaty was broken in 1801 by the Pasha of Tripoli and renegotiated in 1805 after the First Barbary War, at which time Article 11 was removed.
The significance of this article that is often overlooked or ignored is that it stated categorically that the United States of America is not founded upon the Christian religion, and that this treaty, with that statement intact, was read before and passed unanimously by the United States Senate, and was signed by the President of the United States without a hint of controversy or discord, and remains the earliest and most definitive statement from the United States Senate and the President of the United States, on the secular nature of American government. _________________ Another quality post by Surreal… Original post with links: LINK
FOOTNOTE: While editing this article because of format changes when it was originally written, I have found numerous instances where Wikipedia has been changed and/or edited. CNN has deleted or lost articles from their archives; this is one article written almost three years ago, however, when you add-up the differences, albeit subtle, it indicates that our history is still being re-written, and whether it’s being accomplished by government propagandists or simply people loyal to the Bush administration, the disservice to the public is monumental, and the historical record(s) must be recognized and preserved at all costs. I quoted Wikipedia on numerous occasions in writing the original essay, however, future works will not include these same references. To me, it appears that Wikipedia is being used as a propaganda tool; anyone that researches any given subject, especially as it pertains to the Bush Presidency, must be careful they aren’t quoting propaganda rather then the facts - and every days it’s becoming harder and harder to discern truth from fiction.
The original Timestamp on this essay was May 25, 2006 @ 22:35.
I am nothing more than a patriotic American that is doing whatever I can to further the cause of democracy, the rule of law, and am absolutely outraged on how the Bush administration is defying our Congress, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights! Footnote: I write in a style that I believe is appropriate in today's world where we can't trust the Mainstream News Media, and rather than concentrating on one article alone, which may or may not receive the exposure and emphasis it should, I prefer to meld several relevant stories together, that each taken alone may not expose the entire situation, but when taken-in as a whole, tend to give the reader a better understanding of the subject. One article or story alone does not represent the "Big Picture" - but when several are effectively tied-together it often reveals a trend or broader view of the subject matter that is important to completely understand any given situation. http://justanothercoverup.com/
"Jesus said, ‘the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, is now already in the world.’ (1 John 4:1) So it’s obvious that the so-called Antichrist is not a specific man, but the lowly and base spirit which Jesus said was ‘already in the world’ two thousand years ago. It’s the mentality or spirit that drives egocentric, ethnocentric, bigoted men who lust, fight for and acquire worldly wealth, power and domain at the expense of others, and ignore or deny the wisdom of the Christ who criticized and rebuked the rich and advocated for the poor and the least of our brethren."
"Indeed, the spirit of the ‘Antichrist’ drives people who are like the ‘Nicolaitans’ that Jesus said he hated — people who thought they were superior and were arrogantly proud, bigoted and aggressive, whose main desire was to rule and dominate while claiming that they served God and Country. And the fact is that right now in the world there are people just like Nicolaitans, who call themselves Christians, Jews and Muslims. They compete with and even fight each other for worldly control, power, wealth, and domain. They are very boastfully proud and militant, and they claim to serve God as they fight their ‘holy war’ against people they judge and condemn as ‘godless’ enemies. Their ego tells them they are superior and right, but the truth is that they actually ignore God and instead serve what Jesus called Mammon. They are oblivious of how or why it will be the truly faithful, humble and meek who shall inherit the earth. So, the spirit of the Antichrist certainly is in the world, and it is causing all kinds of conflict, division, hate, anger and violence, particularly through bigots and hypocrites who claim to serve God."
"So God has put in their hearts to give their kingdoms (and nations) to the Beast, until the words of God and prophecy shall be fulfilled." (Jesus, in Revelation 17:17)
" ... the true messenger of God [now] tells humanity that it is actually the spirit of the ‘Antichrist’ and the ‘Beast of Babylon’ that drives and compels men to seek and fight for worldly power and to judge and hate and live by the sword (gun and bomb). Consequently, because of egocentric man’s self-righteousness, error and vain folly, the world has been and is now ruled by the ‘Beast.’"
Those quotes were written by the author of this web site:
in the forehead, the REALID will be the mark in the hand. Those that swear the US operates from "a moral high ground" and cheer on the genocide of Muslim peoples while waving flags stand out clearly as worshippers of the beast. 666 interpreted means ROMAN, the empire that works to enslave the entire world. Armed intervention cannot defeat the beast "for we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against powers and principalities and spiritual wickedness in high places". Only love can conquer hate. Soon the earth will shake and whatever is not bolted down securely will be scattered. Get grounded into the sure foundation now, before it is too late.
by
john riggs (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 424 comments)
on Thursday, January 17, 2008 at 1:40:39 PM
"Many kingdoms and empires throughout history have fit the description [of Babylon]. But the ancient Roman Empire and the succeeding ‘Holy’ Roman Empire that produced the ‘Dark Ages’ are probably the most well known to Western civilization..."
"But today the United States of America probably most represents and epitomizes the Babylon foreseen by the apostle John in his book of Revelation [and identified by the number 666], and it also most represents the biggest piece of the "divided fourth kingdom" foreseen by the prophet Daniel."
Those are little excerpts from the following web page that thoroughly explains what "Babylon" and the "Beast" are, and how Rome is the "fourth kingdom" which was "broken into pieces," the biggest and most powerful of which is the U.S. The Author shows how Babylon will "fall" and be replaced by a family of nations in which the people share the "thrones" as equal joint heirs. In other words, it explains how we will establish government that is actually of, by and for the people.
The skygod is a shibboleth - a bobo doll. These bobo dolls exist to the extent that people fantasize about them and clap for them. In that sense they are like tinkerbell.
I often characterize something like my car or my computer or George Bush as the anti-Christ, but I do it for dramatic emphasis. Religious fundamentalists pick ideas that give them pleasure (Holy covenant) and then they believe in them. The same thing happens with ideas that they don't like like evolution.
It is pleasurable in a masochistic way to think that a supernatural agency of evil or good is out to get you. Unfortunately, that leads to an enormous disfunctional waste of time and spreads panic amongst those who are even more gullible.
The human race can only continue if it really wages an honest war against gullibility and stupidity.
by
John Hanks (1 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1186 comments)
on Thursday, January 17, 2008 at 2:41:13 PM
I don't know if there really exists a "Mystery Babylon", but if it really exists, I think I can identify it. Of course if I'm wrong, then my email address is "wrong" too.
by
Harold Smith (0 articles, 3 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 466 comments)
on Friday, January 18, 2008 at 8:02:50 AM
The U.S. is the "greatest" military power in the world, which is part of the reason why it now most represents the symbolic "Babylon."
Anther reason is that it is ruled by the wealthiest one percent of the population, which provides 80 percent of the funding for the political campaigns of BOTH Republicans and Democrats. And the wealthy get what they pay for.
Contrary to what that site says, "Mystery Babylon", according to the Bible, refers to a specific place, i.e., a place where people live, etc.; and I'm sorry to say that the U.S. fits the description perfectly.
Let's face it, the U.S. is a vast, corrupt, militaristic empire. In a very appropriate sense, the U.S. can be seen as the "whore" that the Kings of the earth have "fornicated with", selling out their respective subjects in return for military, economic and political support from the Empire.
In fact, it can be argued that if there were no U.S., there would have been no U.S. entry into WW1 therefore no WW2, no Hitler, no Stalin, no cold war, no Israel, no Vietnam war, no propping up brutal dictators all over the world, no Iraq war, no war against Yugoslavia, and on and on ad nauseum. Who knows, maybe there'd even be no atomic weapons as well. Whether it be in Colombia, the Philippines or the Mid East, for erxample, wherever the world's #1 arms merchant and bloody imperialist imposes itself, there's nothing but trouble.
by
Harold Smith (0 articles, 3 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 466 comments)
on Friday, January 18, 2008 at 1:49:51 PM
This has been a controversial piece since its publication
This essay was first published almost three years ago, and since then, it has received constant reads, almost on a daily basis. There are 22 or more comments on my site, and some of them are extremely well-written and display the diversity of opinion as people with a wide variance of religious beliefs add their interpretation to the subject matter.
What it indicates to me is that nothing is set in stone on this issue, it never has been, and even today, the diversity of opinion is almost beyond comprehension. It seems that to most people who read it, almost in every case, it elicits a different opinion or philosophy. One reason I chose to re-post an older article was to demonstrate that even after three years, there still isn't a consensus of opinion that sways in any particular direction - and it's still as controversial today as when it was initially written.
I believe that this article is a good indicator that religion and politics don't mix, they never have, and the variances of opinion of several religious beliefs show quite definitively that religious beliefs are so varied, that even if we didn't have a constitutionally mandated separation of church and state (Which the Bush administration ignores) clause - no matter which "faith" was chosen, there would be countless millions of people with diverse and opposing beliefs, therefore it is never "OK" to allow religion to enter politics no matter how well-intentioned the motive is, as there will always be a huge amount of people that don't agree with whatever belief is stated simply because of the diversity of religion in America. To hold one belief over another will always result in mass discrimination and adversity throughout the population and I believe that the founding father’s of this country were well ware of that fact and tried to protect us from evolving our society in a manner that would eventually result in internal conflict and strife.
William Cormier
by
William Cormier (126 articles, 6 quicklinks, 17 diaries, 302 comments)
on Friday, January 18, 2008 at 9:44:07 AM
And the problem is exacerbated when religious zealots are motivated by the erroneous doctrines of men, which, by the way, the Christ Jesus warned us about. But Bush and the "Christian Right" cannot see the truth, and they cling to and push false doctrine and dogma to gain wealth, power and domain.
Thomas Jefferson was right, not only when he called for a "wall of separation between church and state," but also when he said things like this:
"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law," and "religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God; that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship; that the legislative powers of the government reach actions only, and not opinions." - Thomas Jefferson
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." -- Thomas Jefferson
"Among the sayings and discourses imputed to Jesus by his biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others again of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism, and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being." -- Thomas Jefferson
Jefferson was not alone, either. Many other founding fathers felt the same way.
"Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other Religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other sects?" -- James Madison
"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." -- James Madison
"The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history." -- John Adams
"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practiced it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed persecution in the Romish church, but practiced it upon the Puritans. (The Puritans) found it wrong in the Bishops (of the Church of England), but fell into the same practice themselves in New England (in America)." -- Benjamin Franklin
I think I'll copy my final remark as well as yours (if you don't mind), refer to the comments here to sort of top-of the original piece on my site. The issue of religion and politics is affecting too many lives adversely, and if we took religion out of the equation, several fights and issues would be resolved here and across the world.
I remember last year receiving an email from a retired Baptist Minister who was upset that honest Christians were being identified with Bush supporters. He was angry with the President and asked me to write more on the subject. It’s always been a tough matter to write about. Everything has to be drafted with a clear intention that nothing that's been written is meant to insult true Christians – or any other religion for that matter, and remaining unbiased is extremely hard to do when you find people who twist the words of hope and charity to equate to death and destruction. When you know that someone's preaching hate and are veering away from the Bible, the Koran, or any other doctrine it's hard not to view them with disdain and revulsion, especially those who have become multimillionaires because of their positions in their particular congregation(s).
I might add that I'm not a "Christian" but freely admit that some Christian teachings benefit society and they always will. I grew up in a Mormon environment, and quite honestly, I worry that Mitt Romney could walk away with the Presidency. I think we will begin to see his turn-a-round in the polls. There are factors with him that most people are unaware of, but because of my Mormon background I can't seem to make the words turn into anything comprehensible. I find it extremely hard to write something in regard a church in which I grew up in, but much needs to be said about Mitt Romney and the Church itself. No, it certainly won't be Mormon bashing...
Anyway, appreciate the comment. It's good to see that many of us with diverse backgrounds still favor the separation of church and state. This is one trend in our government that is growing and has the potential to make over half of the country miserable. Those that are extremely vocal with their intolerance of others who have a different political opinion, sexuality, a different political party, and even those of other religions are constantly planting the seeds of violence and hate, again in the name of God. These are the people with whom I am the most intolerant, and attempting to hide it never works.
William Cormier
by
William Cormier (126 articles, 6 quicklinks, 17 diaries, 302 comments)
on Friday, January 18, 2008 at 3:13:21 PM
I'm just trying to spread the word about Adamson's message. His web site is where I got those quotes, and they are public domain.
While he is in total agreement with all those founding fathers, he takes it to the logical, final step, calling for a reformation of both religion and government. His views are very refreshing, and, I think, very much needed in the world today.
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