David Swanson: Well I tell you, we're going to be at the White House taking all the signatures on this "Don't attack Iran" petition, you know, Cindy Sheehan and others in the peace movement, and we'll be protesting war, but if the elections are stolen, we'll be protesting that, and I'm hoping it wont be a small crowd, but as you say, Americans are a little behind Mexicans in these things.
Ed Asner: So if those elections are stolen, who are you going to complain to?
David Swanson: Well we're going to need a country lawyer I guess (laughing).
Ed Asner: I guess.
David Swanson: You know, the other thing that's funny in this play is that these defenders of Bush and Cheney and Rummy bring out this idea that "well it's okay to do all of these things. It's okay to lie if it's not under oath." Does that idea come out of the Clinton thing where they went after him for something that nobody would have cared about except that it was under oath......
Ed Asner: Yeah....
David Swanson: Because they went after Nixon for lying to the public and Bush has lied to congress and the public and he's lied to congress in formal, written statements. Do people now believe that you can only impeach someone if they lied under oath?
Ed Asner: You know, I don't know the fine legality there. I know that's how they got Scooter Libby, but why.. there's nobody else being charged with a crime, so I guess you're right.
David Swanson: ...because it seems that they didn't go after Nixon for tax fraud, even though he broke the law, because that wasn't an impeachable offense, but they did go after him for lying to the public, even though it wasn't a crime, because it was an impeachable offense. It was a threat to our democracy.
Ed Asner: What exactly was it? What did he say? You know, it's been so far in the past and I was so eager to have him gotten, I don't know under what......there were 18 minutes missing on the tape...what was...I guess there were statements, which said well we've got to pay them this money, we've got to get it taken care of, the money from Creep was it? Again, it's now in the past and is no longer in my mind...
David Swanson: It was mostly cover-up. It was miles from being as significant as this case, where the president lied about the most important matter possible, a war. You know, and the article of impeachment about the bombing of Cambodia was not approved by the judiciary committee, so they didn't touch on war.
Ed Asner: So I think what he essentially was facing was a revolt among the Republicans themselves, and, of course, there were more Democrats around in those days.
David Swanson: Right.
Ed Asner: ...and they were wielding more control, and there was a different supreme court.
David Swanson: You know, I like this play so much because it focuses on the war rather than just the spying or the detentions or just this endless list of possible articles of impeachment, but I was surprised that it proved...you know, this play lays out strong evidence as you can that the reasons put forth for the war were lies. It wasn't the weapons of mass destruction. It wasn't the ties to 911, but then in the course of the script, this play makes a very decisive case that we have to not just show that those were lies, but also prove what the real reason was, as we prove it was about oil, although we've also earlier in the first scene proved that it was about getting votes, and if we get to impeachment in the House, are we gong to have to do that? That seems almost as difficult, you know, as proving evidence of absence or whatever Rummy might call it, I mean, wont it be enough to prove that they lied without proving what they were really all about?
Ed Asner: Don't the vast majority of American people think they've lied already?
David Swanson is the author of the introduction to "The 35 Articles of Impeachment and the Case for Prosecuting George W. Bush" published by Feral House. Swanson holds a master's degree in philosophy from the University of Virginia. He has worked as a newspaper reporter and as a communications director, with jobs including press secretary for Dennis Kucinich's 2004 presidential campaign, media coordinator for the International Labor Communications Association, and three years as communications coordinator for ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now. Swanson is Co-Founder of AfterDowningStreet.org, creator of ConvictBushCheney.org and Washington Director of Democrats.com, a board member of Progressive Democrats of America, the Backbone Campaign, and Voters for Peace, and a member of the legislative working group of United for Peace and Justice.
Very few in our entertainment industry dare to speak out the way Mr. Asner does and he deserves accolades for his courage and his conscience.
The people of Mexico are nowhere near as convinced of the honesty of their government as are most Americans. For so long we have held this image of our nation as pure and honest and well intentioned that even the last five years have made only a little dent in that facade. The Mexican people understand that they live under corrupt leaders and thus are out in the streets while the average American will not accept the blatant facts of their leader's incompetence and unscrupulous looting of our treasury for the personal gain of the few, thus they have faith in the election process and stay at home. Pity.
by
ardee D. (6 articles, 4 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 2377 comments)
on Saturday, November 4, 2006 at 6:19:45 PM
1 comments
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