Dr. DeVries was the instructor's name, one of the funnier, more intelligent and personable people I've ever met, and, incidentally, a Mormon.
I admit that the above quotes are squeezed from the depths of my highly imperfect memory, but I believe they do justice to the tenor of the discussion.
The answer to what began to seem like a Zen koan, was, "We have kids so that we can have friends in our old age, and hopefully while we're growing old." Or at least that was the most logical answer, as espoused by the good doctor.
And I have to admit that over the years, that has come to win out over any other any other answers I've thought of. A year ago when I was in the hospital for six weeks, getting a heart transplant, the regular visits from my two sons made me fight to hold back tears. "Friends for when we get old." Indeed! And for the most part, I have likewise greatly enjoyed my sons as friends growing up, and I certainly enjoy them now. Additionally, I do my best to be a friend to my own father, who is now 84, and greatly appreciates my friendship, to say the least.
Both my sons tell me, however, that they don't plan to have kids of their own. For reasons similar to why I almost didn't. And I have many friends who have no kids and don't plan to have any. My neighbor doctor was telling me just last evening how kids give him headaches. And his pediatrician wife has no interest in having her own kids either, though she loves her profession. I sympathized and told them what Groucho Marx said, when asked how he liked kids. "Parboiled," he answered.
If you aren't of a similar persuasion yourself, I'm sure you know many folks who are. In other words, it appears that a large number of people, often highly intelligent people, have involuntarily joined the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement.
My thinking continues: Ok, I'm busting my butt trying to bring sanity into the world, working to replace violence with kindness, putting kids ahead of our own petty agendas, encouraging respect of nature and the sustainable living which that entails, encouraging empathy and understanding, trying to turn swords into plowshares, and praying to the Universe that it help me not be too big of an asshole. I try to release the hatred I feel toward those who would trade our unfathomably beautiful, precious, irreplacable Earth for a fatter portfolio.
And now I begin to wonder why I bother. My genes appear ready to end in one nanosecond blink of the geologic eye. Why not just let those who want to go on having kids deal with their own bag of shit? They will put themselves and their progeny through an ever deepening, hotter hell of their own making, by failing to do the most rudimentary intellectual homework, by avoiding reading, thinking, and reflection, by not trusting the very brains they were born with, by envisioning and eliciting hostile responses from all those other humans who've chosen to hang around and reproduce, by bowing low and kissing the feet of demagogues, all whilst grovelling in that man-made gutter of the God Almighty Dollar, and perhaps anxiously awaiting "The Rapture" or some mysterious Apocalypse, and meanwhile devoting their sorry lives to larger, fancier cars, sprawlling and resource draining mansions of solitary confinement, Fox News, who has the latest boob job, and the like.
I hate to be crass, but why not say, "Fuck 'em all. I'll just bow out with the most dignity and grace I can muster, which may well be holding up a middle finger when the ignorant fascists throw that last shovel of dirt on me. But why should I fight to save these assholes? I mean really?"
So the Vehement folks have got my attention, and certainly made a pin-prick in my balloon of assumptions. This is not really despair, which I'm told is a sin, but rather a realistic and almost cheerful acceptance that, "Hey! This ain't my problem! I'll soon be out of here and hopefully before long others will catch on and the Earth will get to heal itself. And even if humans hang on long enough to involuntarily bring the curtains down on themselves and a few thousand other species, the Earth will go on spinning, revolving, capturing and utilizing sunlight, and what species do remain will go on evolving, branching, multiplying, recycling the mess we've made, and the Beauty of Nature will prevail, unimpeded by this fruitcake species imposing insane ideas upon it.
Well now, all this makes me feel a little better. It's certainly been cathartic and helped to purge some internalized poison. Which reminds me of what a friend recently asked me, "You know what this Earth needs?" "No," I replied. "An enema," he said. I laughed, but pointed out that an asteroid would work equally well.
Ok, I actually have a fair amount more to say, and the truth is I intend to contradict myself and argue in another article why we humans should go on, keep our DNA alive and healthy, and examine what that entails if we are serious about doing so.
But meanwhile, I encourage you to consider the question raised in the title of this article: Why have kids?
Geery lived off the grid for 15 years in an earth-sheltered, solar heated home, while his kids learned in school that solar energy isn't feasible. NAPTA hosts a page on Geery's foibles in education, and explains how he got his butt fired from a tenured teaching position. Here's a short clip of his most recent solar contraption; for more on that project, and Geery's contention that the Wright Brothers took a wrong turn, please visit his airship page (hyperblimp.com). Apparently, Geery is the only one in the world to respond to Osama bin Laden, call bullshit on him and George together, and expose them for the pansy ass rich kids that they are. Unfortunately, bin Laden has been too scared to write back and explain himsself; and George is still working hard to finish his goat book.
In one of the Star Trek episodes Locutos, a Borg asks Worf, the Klignon why did he resist the assimiliation
- We only try to raise the standard of living for all species,- says Locutos.
- I like my species the way it is,- answered Worf.
There is no 'why have kids?'. We have children because that's what we are. Whatever happens that is our 'species the way it is.'
And one more episode. In the end of the 19th century Thomas Malthus was popular with his theory on curbing the population. Once those theories were discussed in the presence of Wilhelm Steinitz, the first official Chess Champion of the World and a very educated man.
- Poor people must not have many children,- said one dame.
- Those children also are frequently mentally disabled,- said another.
- My father was a poor shoemaker,-said Steinitz and proceeded,
- He had 13 children and I, Wilhelm Steinitz was the 13th.
Who can say better than that?
by
Mark Sashine (50 articles, 19 quicklinks, 242 diaries, 3434 comments)
on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 at 8:36:58 AM
I would like to hear readers' thoughts on this question, particularly as I attempt to organize my own thoughts and compose a response over the next few days.
If you're not comfortable posting publicly, note that there is a link to directly email the authors of articles in this column.
by
Daniel Geery (26 articles, 58 quicklinks, 121 diaries, 690 comments)
on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 at 9:47:30 AM
I've thought about that alot myself. Having lived in Utah most of my life, (where a little girl at church told my mom that she was "weird" for only having 2 kids) I've seen the positive and negative sides of having a large family.
Here's a sight we're probably all familiar with: at the grocery store (or wherever) there is the tired, haggared looking mom who's brought all 7 of her kids, age 7 and under, with her. All the kids are screaming, running around the aisle, grabbing stuff off the shelves, climbing all over the shopping cart and basically creating an unpleasant experience for everyone around them. I'm always torn between feeling sorry for the mom, and thinking "Why can't she get those kids to shut up?" and "I am never, ever having children." It's an all too familiar sight here, the result of breeding without thinking about it. Family planning is a *good* thing...
I'm the oldest of 2, and my sister is 6 years my junior. Whenever she or I complain about people with annoying kids, my mom reminds us "Neither of you were like that." My theory is it's because trying to raise and discipline one young child at a time is alot easier than 5 or 6. If my sister or I misbehaved, there were consequences (usually some privilege being taken away) which were always enforced. It seems like it would be much easier to keep an eye on the behavior of 1 or 2 kids, rather than lots of them. It also makes it easier to spend quality time getting to know them.
On the other hand though, I've seen large families that functioned very well. Some parents just seem to be able to deal with lots of kids better than others, which is why it's important to really put alot of thought into the decision to have children
Personally, I'm still undecided. There are many reasons not to have kids. The article listed some good ones, and I have a few of my own: I don't want to put myself through the pain of pregnancy and childbirth; kids annoy me and I'm not very good with them; the world is a horrible place and I couldn't subject an innocent child to that; I'm very self-centered and kids would be a drain on my time and financial resources; I'd probably be a miserable failure as a parent anyway, etc.
But I also can't help but think how great it would be to teach my child how to read, to help them learn about nature, music, art, other cultures and all of the beautiful things the world has to offer; how cool it would be to take them hiking or on their first trip out of the US; and how I'd want to challenge them to form their own opinions, and be tolerant and kind towards others, even when no one else is; and to be the ones who are bringing a little bit of what's good and right to the world when the majority either doesn't care or is doing wrong.
If I do have children, I'd only want 1 or 2. I know myself and I know that I get overwhelmed by having to interact with alot of people at once; I'm much better at one on one interaction. I'd want my kid(s) to trust me and know that they could come to me for help with anything, especially in a world that's becoming more and more of a living hell.
My point is, that whether someone decides to have children or not, they should ask themselves why; and really think about it rationally and logically. To do otherwise seems irresponsible.
by
Amanda Butler (3 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 21 comments)
on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 at 12:52:08 PM
I am doing my part in all of this because I am gay. By design, that means I am not interested in procreational sex since it would involve having sex with females; something I find personally distasteful. Yes, I have gone there...and I never want to again. Thank the goddess nothing came of it, literally.
In a world that is being raped and chewed to bits on every side, what rational reason can there be for bringing more life into a world already strained to the breaking point? Just Yesterday, the census clock clicked over to 300 BILLION people on this planet. Three hundred billion? Do we really need that many people?
How many of those people are living in sub-standard areas? The lion's share. And still, we keep on making more kids. Every day to the tune of one child born every ten seconds, we continue to fill our world up with more people demanding more water, more food, more air, more of everything.
And so few get the message. We are already at a tipping point as far as global warming is concerned. The last thing we need to do as a species is to keep piling more of ourselves on the negative side of that teeter-totter.
On the other hand, it might be just what we need to do. Since we, as a species, have demonstrated an inability to learn from our mistakes, perhaps we need to keep on filling the planet with more of us until the world is finally beyond the point of recall. When the oceans swallow up even more of the shoreline, the world's glaciers are no more, the salinity of the oceans are completely compromised, and our atmosphere can no longer absorb all the CO2 spewed into it, maybe then and only then will our species do what it has needed to do for quite some time now, DIE!
In the long run, I really don't give a shit. By the time the tipping point comes, I won't be here. Whether or not our race of "intelligent apes" survives, the Earth will. It survived for millions of years before we made the big leap from the primordial ooze to what passes as sentience. It survived the entire time we were making that leap. It will survive for millions of years even after we all leap hand in hand from the precipice we presently face like the mindless Lemmings we are.
So, when it comes down to it, you folks can do whatever turns your collective cranks. You want to keep popping out kids with no reason whatsoever? Fine, have at it. It is they who will ultimately have to pay for the loans we have drawn on our world, its atmosphere, its ability to sustain us with food and water, and the economic decay we have set in motion. I will be in the grave oblivious to it all.
Of all the commandments given by the supposed god of the christian bible, why is it the only one people can seem to get right is, "Be fruitful and multiply?"
Blessed be!
Pappy
by
Pappy (61 articles, 0 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 860 comments)
on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 at 3:36:34 PM
Well, I hate to admit I was wrong, but I was. I said that the census clock had clicked over to 300 billion people the world over. That's completely incorrect. It clicked over to 300 Million here in the US.
While it's a smaller number, I still think there are way too many people on this planet for its good, our good, or the good of the other organisms that share our space. I also don't know what made me think it was a worldwide thing, but at least I corrected my error. I guess there are worse mistakes I could have made in life, like voting for the War Criminal, DUBYA. At least I didn't make that mistake.
Blessed be!
Pappy
by
Pappy (61 articles, 0 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 860 comments)
on Thursday, October 19, 2006 at 12:54:34 AM
Somewhere on this globe, every ten seconds, there is a woman giving birth to a child. She must be found and stopped.
Sam Levenson (1911 - 1980)
- More quotations on: [Birth]
by
Gavin Geazy (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 4 comments)
on Thursday, October 19, 2006 at 7:53:46 AM
"Why have kids?" is indeed a good question. It's not exactly the same as "Why breed?" though that's usually what people mean.
Adoption and foster care are options for couples who feel they are ready to commit to parenthood. Madonna, for example, just adopted an orphan from South Africa.
That could satisfy the one reason your professor felt was worthwhile: "We have kids so that we can have friends in our old age, and hopefully while we're growing old."
Over the years, I've collected reasons offered from breeding. They may be seen at http://vhemt.org/biobreed.htm#reasons . (Scroll down just a little).
Thank you for the thoughtful, thought-provoking article on the most important decision we have to make in our lifetimes.
Les
by
Les Knight (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 3 comments)
on Friday, October 20, 2006 at 8:29:14 AM
Must Read (
Well Said (
News (
Touching (
Funny (
Supported (
Interesting (
Inspiring (
Valuable (
