Rob Kall: That wasn't always the case. At one point Conservatives were actually" ecologists as well.
Paul Craig Roberts: [at same time] No. Well very few of them. [laughing]
Rob Kall: Okay
Paul Craig Roberts: Very few of them! You talking about Teddy Roosevelt? [laughing]
Paul Craig Roberts: Yeah. Yeah! Very few. And" and umh what you see there, you know, They've had permission in this last decade to cut down almost all the remaining old growth forest. There's no constraints on fracking or mountain top removal. And the pollution effects of these things are enormous. I'm" I'm convinced of the cost of fraction, of fracking, greatly exceeds the value of the natural gas that they get. But the costs are imposed on everybody else. They're not part of the cost to the firms to do the fracking. So for them"
Rob Kall: [interjecting] Are there" are, are there any politicians who have attempted to" make any laws or regulations that would include those costs?
Paul Craig Roberts: There probably have been, but you see the" the reason it can't happen is " whereever the fracking is going on, the company is the biggest" financial power there. And the cost of it, are being distributed all over lots of smaller guys, smaller operations, and" and water systems somewhere else. And" and I suppose if all the people being damaged could somehow get together and get organized, they could stop it. But the ability to organize that many people is almost non existant. So" for this reason, there's no real constraint on the fracking or the mountain top removal. You know, they go in, and just blow up, blow the top of the mountain off.
Rob Kall: Or the use of the fertilizer" I mean there are countless examples of" of how this was going on. It does seem kind of helpless when you look at the" the obstacles that are currently in place to institute any kind of rules or changes that would include those costs.
Now your book title also talks about globalism, and globalization--at least the German version, the Failure of globalism'?
Paul Craig Roberts: Yeah
Rob Kall: What's that about?
Paul Craig Roberts: Well" many things. I'll just pick one of them. Umh, jobs offshoring. See this is another reason we have no recovery here. Because umh the middle class jobs, manufacturing jobs, professional service jobs like software engineering, IT, any kind of job that can be done off site and sent in over the internet, these jobs have all been moved offshore. So" when you move these jobs offshore, what you're doing is you're moving what would have been domestic consumer income offshore. It's no longer American, it goes to China or India or wherever. And that means the gross domestic product, which would have been produced in the United States instead is produced in China or India or wherever the jobs are offshore to. And it means when they come back, when the goods and services come back in the United States to be sold to Americans, they come in as imports, so the trade deficit goes up. So you become more indebted" to foreigners. And the effect of this" and of course all this is" is justified in the name of globalism, but the effect is to de-industrialized first world economies and turn them into third world economies. You can't have"
Rob Kall: [interjecting] DE industrialized?
Paul Craig Roberts: Yeah
Rob Kall: "DE'?