W.B.: In that sense, yes. I don't know if they have discussed this with him then they certainly should have because this is a direct violation of the constitution. Again, they're so afraid of it being exposed that they haven't talked about any of this publicly so I mean, it's really in a democracy where this kind of discussion needs to be done.
It needs to be out in the open where everybody knows what is being done to them in terms of laws and in terms of the constitution. There is a process to change the constitution. If they want to amend the fourth amendment, the first amendment, the fifth amendment, they can do that but they have to get it passed through congress then ratified by the states. That's in the constitution as a way to do that.
R.K.: No, no, no, Obama goes to Justice Roberts and says hey set up these secret courts so they don't have to tell anybody about it and then the judges rubber stamp everything and it's all cool. What are you talking about? Amending the constitution?
W.B.: I'm talking about doing it in a democratic way. If we're going to be a democracy, that's the way to do it.
R.K.: Now, yesterday you said that what our government is doing is setting up a totalitarian state and if we don't stand up and speak against it we are going to get exactly that. Now you have mentioned this in other interviews before. Talk about why you say that what is going on is characteristic of a totalitarian state. How is what NSA is doing similar to a totalitarian state?
W.B.: Okay well, my background is analyzing the Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact countries so those were totalitarian states. Certainly dictatorials, very finite numbers of people in power directing everything in the country.
And so it was very familiar to me what the KGB and the MVD did in the Soviet Union and what the East German Stasi and what other countries in Europe did, although to a lesser degree, what other European communist countries were doing and that was to find out and pull together all kinds of information on everybody in their country; for example in East Germany they had population about seventeen million and I will bet about two million were informants on the other fifteen million and they had a very large number of Stasi agents, and they were all trying to pull together all kinds of information that they possibly could on everybody in the country so if there was a problem with anyone that they perceived to be a problem they would take care of it and in the case of KGB they would either brutalize them or send them to gulags or put them in a mental institution.
You know those were the procedures they used. But the core of that, the core capability that allowed them to do that was assembling knowledge about the population and that is exactly what NSA is doing about the population of the United States and they're not keeping it just here, they're also spreading it around the world, to all the democracies around the world and that's also inspired all the non-democracies to figure, well that's the way to do business.
That's the way we have to do to it to collect information on every citizen in our country so it's really being spread worldwide and being a very destructive influence on how countries and governments operate.
R.K.: Now where does Obama fit in to this?
W.B.: Well he is approving all of this so far and if he doesn't come out this Friday to try to stop this I mean you know I would refer him to his training on the constitution. He's a constitutional lawyer. I would refer him to that and say you ought to stand up and defend the constitution as your oath of office says you will do.
R.K.: Mmm, yeah, good luck with that!
W.B.: Well I mean that's the right thing to do, isn't it?
R.K.: It is, yes. I just wrote a piece today inspired by you and Tom Drake, listing all of the ways that Obama has violated the constitution, it's a pretty long list. And I voted for him. I originally had a lot of hope for this guy but I don't anymore.
W.B.: I think you've gotten change, it just hasn't been in a hopeful way.
R.K.: So you decided you were going to tell the House Intelligence Committee. Did you what, go to the Chair? Who did you go to?