Rob Kall: I just want to be clear about this. When you say we ' re becoming " Israelized " in terms of our national security , y ou ' re saying that we ' re acting like Israel, thinking in terms of the comprehensiveness of our reactions to everything in the world. You ' re not talking about how Israel is driving the U.S. because that ' s a whole other issue .
Lawrence Wilkerson: No, that
Rob Kall: On impact "
Lawrence Wilkerson: That ' s an entirely other issue, yeah. I ' m just speaking to it from the point of view of becoming a N ational S ecurity state , where your raison d ' Ãªtre , your reason for being , is to wage war .
Rob Kall: Okay. So let ' s also talk about this other side. The effect that Israel is having on our international policy, and on our security policies.
Lawrence Wilkerson: And "
Rob Kall: What do you think about that ?
Lawrence Wilkerson: And, let ' s add ' on Israel ' s long term security,' because what Netanyahu and his minions are doing right now , and what we ' re allowing them to do, in going along with, largely, is not conducive to Israel ' s long range security. It is in fact conducive to Israel ' s destruction. Either through "
Rob Kall: Right.
Lawrence Wilkerson: " Y eah, we ' re talking about a state that is looking more and more like South Africa . Carter called it an "A partheid State ' . And he used the appropriate adjective. A state like that simply cannot survive, not as a Jewish state and a D emocracy. Many would argue that it ' s not a D emocracy anymore. This is a state after all that, it was formed by a Socialists. This is a state that was formed largely by atheists, and this is a state that has become captured by the U ltra - Right - Wing Orthodox Jewish element within it, who constitute most of the settlers. This is a state whom one in five of it ' s citizens now is a settler. This is a state run by a man who is largely owned by these U ltra - Orthodox people, who, incidentally like the N eocons in this country , want to defeat all their enemies with other peoples ' blood. In other words, they don ' t serve in the Armed Forces. So there are a lot of similarities between what Israel has become and what we have become. It ' s rather ironic, as Andrew points out in his piece , how similar the two situations are. But Israel ' s long term security, as I said, is certainly not assured by the policy she ' s pursuing right now. In fact, I would argue that her long term security is in great peril because of the policies she ' s pursuing right now. And our security, following Israel as if we were her lapdog, is absolutely in jeopardy , particularly in that region of the world, where things are not so hunky - dory right now. Whether you call it the " Arab awakening ' or the " Arab Spring ' , or the " Arab Winter ' , or whatever, things aren ' t looking too good for U.S. interests in th e region right now. Israel ' s position within that turmoil, and our position supporting Isr ael within that turmoil, is adding to that turmoil. Adding to the number of suicide bombers in the world, for example, who would like to do damage to us . I had a conversation recently with a former CIA operative who ought to know , he spent a lot of time in Western Asia. And he said, " Larry, you know, before 9/11 there were probably three hundred to five hundred [300-500] people in the world, t hat ' s three hundred to five hundred who both wanted to do damage to the United States, and have the capability to do it , and were willing to use terrorism as their tool. "
Rob Kall: Three hundred to five hundred terrorists "
Lawrence Wilkerson: Three hundred
Rob Kall: " who wanted to hurt the U.S. ?
Lawrence Wilkerson: Yeah. And could [do it]. And could! H e said "N ow there ' s fifty thousand." And then he said " how is that a successful strategy? " It reminded me of Donald Rumsfeld . Donald Rumsfeld asked the question , I think it was in 2003, the summer of 2003 as I recall, maybe it was a little bit later then that, maybe it was the winter of 2003, 2004, Rumsfeld sent out one of his " snowflakes ' [memos] , and he asked both the uniformed military and the civilian staff in the Pentagon, and he said "T ell me how it is , if every time we kill a terrorist, we create ten, that we ' re winning! " G ood question , Donald!
Rob Kall: Yeah, well. Something good out of his mouth anyway . Well " Shame they didn ' t make a ny decision s based on that!
Lawrence Wilkerson: Well "