Thanks for Your Rebuttal to Nation

David,

Thanks for making the effort to rebut Hayes' article.

Here's some additional useful information: 60 senior American military, intelligence, law enforcement, and govt officials who question the official story of 9/11, plus a dozen internationals http://PatriotsQuestion911.com.

Best regards, Alan

by Alan Miller (11 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 7 comments) on Sunday, December 24, 2006 at 12:36:35 AM
 

The Nation's problem

I think it is an article of faith, unquestioned, in traditional liberal circles, that the differences between true liberals and true conservatives are principled differences . . . that conservatives are as much motivated by principle as are liberals (which may have once been the case). What they overlook is that a hard-knuckle game has taken over the arena. Principle increasingly has less and less to do with what is going on, but is merely a shield for the exercise of raw power. And raw power plays the game any way it sees fit.

(I try, myself, to cling to the illusion that Democrats are 'good guys,' but the developing course of events as we move toward the installation of the 110th Congress is daily increasing my discomfort.)

In the light of that old illusion-of-decency that won't die, the thought of such a malign --indeed, monstrous-- goverment as would be implied by the 9/11 conspiracy construction is simply too much for the traditional liberal mind to get its grasp of. Hence, the knee-jerk denial of it.

In this instance, it's the 'illusion of the pure,' that possesses The Nation. But it is just as sturdily, blindly rooted there as any illusion of the impure.

by Irvthom (7 articles, 2 quicklinks, 2 diaries, 88 comments) on Sunday, December 24, 2006 at 2:13:46 AM
 

I agree...

Good comment. While I agree that "true" conservatives are motivated on principle, the neo-cons who have taken over the asylum are all Straussians, and that's pretty much the Nazi-inspired raw grab for power that you describe.

My point is that The Nation's "sniff test" sniffers aren't working here if they believe that the lines of B.S. presented in that article are going to snooker anybody with half a brain. Maybe that's what they did it for, so their weak position could be exposed by my article and the truth really would seep out that way, but it sounds like a reach...

And as I pointed out, one only needs to open one's eyes to the facts on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan to realize how truly monstrous these people are, 9/11 or no 9/11.

So for me it's not too big a leap to at least try to bust them on the 9/11 cover-up. That's what I'm essentially working towards. THAT can be proven, relatively easily, in my opinion.

All we have to do is insist that the new Congress try.

Thanks for your contribution.

by David Caputo (5 articles, 32 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 25 comments) on Sunday, December 24, 2006 at 3:08:20 AM
 

Credibility and Ridicule, and they go both ways....

The Nation is a major publication. They are really afraid of being so far outside the mainstream of American thought and awareness that they lose that status.

Let's face it, liberal publications have taken a beating in the last 35 years or so.

Nevertheless, we are reaching a tipping point about 9/11 and doubts about the official myth.

The best way I can think of to push that tipping point is to launch an email campaign to the media, all of them, as well as to our elected officials, laying out the unanswered questions and new ones created by the 9/11 Commission and the anthrax investigation.

Hell, people, it isn't all that difficult. Just pledge to send three a day. Guilt you friends into doing the same.

The effing corporate media never report anything big, politically, until they know that we already know, and that their credibility is heading for oblivion if they do not get a effing grip.

by wintefire6 (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 87 comments) on Sunday, December 24, 2006 at 3:28:40 AM
 

Where is decency?

I keep looking for it, but it seems to be nowhere in site. Joseph Welsh asked where Joe McCarthy's sense of decency had gone. There was no answer, but at least there was someone there to ask the question.

It seems there is no one asking the question in this day and age. Even the staunch and gutsy Keith Olbermann has yet to ask it of DUBYA face to face.

I am not one given to conspiracy theories. I believe that Oswald shot Kennedy. I believe that nothing other than a piece of military garbage fell in Roswell. However, when evidence arises that seems to make a strong case for the possibility of a conspiracy, I have to sit up and take note.

Such is the case with 9/11. There are a lot of, to my mind, cockamamie ideas floating about surrounding the 9/11 debacle that tend to color everyone who believes in the possibility of an inside job look like a nut case. Most of them, such as money trails, lost airplanes, and so on make no sense to me.

However, there are some irrefutably real things that happened that day that suggest there's a lot more about it we aren't being told. The fact that both towers and WTC 7 fell perfectly, like a controlled implosion has yet to be answered satisfactorily. The issue of molten steel lasting for weeks/months at ground zero is also suspicious. The fact that all three buildings that fell are the only three buildings that have fallen before or since that were felled by seemingly mysterious means.

Until those questions are answered, as far as I am concerned, we are NOT getting the complete story.

Do I think our government is capable of such a thing? Yes, I most definitely do. Do I think there is a serious cover-up going on? Yes. Do I think the truth will eventually come out? Yes, I do. Will that truth radically change the face of America? Let's hope so!

Blessed be!
Pappy

by Pappy (61 articles, 0 quicklinks, 11 diaries, 860 comments) on Sunday, December 24, 2006 at 3:33:19 AM
 

Funeral for 9/11?

I admit to being taken in by the 9/11 conspiracy ideas, about two months ago for about a month, and also that the more I read, and the more video clips I watched, the more I became convinced there was a great deal to it. I even did a scale drawing of one tower on graph paper and became convinced that the jet fuel released near the top could not possibly have brought down that tower.

Realizing that I still needed more information, I was contemplating various models I could build, out of various materials, which I would then set on fire with fuel at the same scale, and thus demonstrate to my own questioning mind whether the official story was possible. I was contemplating the densities and strengths of different materials, when I got sidetracked by something, probably the elections or maybe writing stuff here.

It is very easy to see how someone could become obsessed with the conspiracy concepts, and surely it is about impossible to conceive of anything the Bushies wouldn't do.

However, just last night I was going through a handful of magazines in a Barnes & Noble bookstore; one of them was a long-time favorite of mine, The Skeptic.

There on the cover was their lead article 9/11 Was There a Conspiracy?

Given the respect this magazine has earned with the most highly skeptical ME over the years, I consider seriously what these folks have say. I don't always agree, such as happened not long ago with their article on "self-help" books, which made too many sweeping generalizatons and contradicted my own experience.

However, after reading the 9/11 cover story, I doubt I'll be paying much more attention to the conspiracy theorists. That said, I can only suggest to anyone seeking what I think is a remarkably objective look at the fundamental arguments surrounding 9/11, that this article might put your wondering to rest, as it did for me.

by Daniel Geery (26 articles, 74 quicklinks, 123 diaries, 746 comments) on Sunday, December 24, 2006 at 8:48:31 AM
 

Skeptical about the Skeptic...

I just tried to review the article, but alas, it's not available online.

How convenient...

If anyone can email me the text of the article, I'd be happy to critique their argument too.

I'm not convinced that someone has put the matter to rest with a single article (or two), but I like to be open minded so we shall see...

by David Caputo (5 articles, 32 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 25 comments) on Sunday, December 24, 2006 at 9:59:08 AM
 

Baby and bath water

Its interesting to note that the people being distracted by 9/11 Truth are those writing articles trying to dissuade others from listening to it!

However, it is obvious they aren't spending too much time on their new found evangelizing, because they all overlook the irrefutable indications of foreknowledge and cover-up.

Forget about the stupid pod theories, forget about the no-plane Pentagon scenario. Forget about controlled demolitions if you want.

Also, forget about pinning the blame on the Bush administration, let alone Bush or Cheney. We can't possibly know who was involved, nor should the 9/11 Truth movement be held to account on that. When someone lays dead in the street, you don't have to be able to tell the police who did it before you can call for help!

Focus on the unbelievable changing stories of the US military about their response (or lack thereof) on 9/11.

Focus on the fact that there were many coincidental military games and other emergency exercises scheduled on and around 9/11 that contributed the attacks succeeding on 9/11.

Focus on all the well documented events where FBI, CIA and other government investigations were thwarted prior to 9/11 that might have lead to it being discovered and stopped before it happened.

It could be that all the secrecy and stymied investigations have other reasons. It could be covering up for incompetence, or simply some deal being made, trading one evil for another.

The bottom line is that as the polls show, the American people know they were lied to. The numbers are irrefutable.

The bottom line is that regardless whodunnit and why, 9/11 was the result of illegal and immoral activities.

OpEdNews, Alexander Cockburn and others on the left are the only ones who are allowing themselves to be distracted from investigating 9/11 for the right reasons! They are guilty of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

by blogbart (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 1 comments) on Sunday, December 24, 2006 at 12:34:16 PM
 

Exactly my point...

Good job BlogBart, you nailed it.

"It's the COVERUP stupid" Should be the slogan of any Democrat running for President.

The coverup is provable, as you correctly noted.

That's my strategy, and there should be little controversy about it by those who are true opponents of the neo-con war agenda.

Thanks for the comment.

by David Caputo (5 articles, 32 quicklinks, 16 diaries, 25 comments) on Sunday, December 24, 2006 at 2:29:40 PM
 

9/11 and Roswell

As long as you mentioned both conspiracies in the same breath, let us look a little further.

In the weeks before 9/11 a UFO was seen and filmed near the World Trade Center. It's purpose unknown, though it could have been a "Marking" event demonstrated for us by the "High level Powers," who have hobbled our nuclear war fighting Fiend elite.

Our nuclear Fiends have an underground to hide in while we all are turned into nuclear waste, provided thanks to the donations of the taxpayers. Both the underground for our Fiends to hide in and the weapons to kill us with, we paid for. We certainly are a generous people.

At the moment, "ET" is throwing a mutilated cow in Montana at the Malmstrom nuclear missile, launch on 5 minutes notice, nuclear war fighting genocidal omnicidal military base.

The last time "ET" had a mutilated cow was in 1975 when our nuclear war fighting Fiend class, attempted to put the human race to the torch. "ET" flew over the missile tubes and placed software blocks into the computer launch programs.

Before that, in 1967, "ET" dropped the power to the missiles and then shut down the diesel generators and finally, drained the batteries on the missile launch mechanisms, preventing our nuclear war fighting Fiends from burning us up.

The reason why the Nation pretends to be lame when it comes to "Lucky Larry" Silverstein and his 5 billion dollar jackpot, is because it is a form of professional courtesy for fellow tribe members.

Roswell in 1947 was the home of the 509th atomic bombing group, the only nuclear attack force on the planet.

The "ET" dropped a craft at Roswell to "Demonstrate the magnitude of the deception."

The Nation is a fraud, along the entire mainstream media. They have been doing their best to keep us stupid and holding us down, to give our nuclear war fighting Fiends a chance to finally get these nuclear missiles flying and once and for all, shut us all up.

If not for the intervention into our world by the "ET," we all would already have been turned into nuclear waste.

Militarism is merely another long running fraud to sell uniforms and keep hungry people hungry, and killing one another for fun and profit.

9/11 was an obvious home grown "Triggering" event to pump up the pocket books of the murdering Fiends of humanity.
.

by Patrick (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 422 comments) on Monday, December 25, 2006 at 11:50:04 PM