This phenomena

is well-known to structural  engineers and by 1968 when the bridge was commissioned there were plenty of countermeasures. If those were not implemented than the negligence was amazing.

by Mark Sashine (46 articles, 19 quicklinks, 235 diaries, 3358 comments) on Friday, August 3, 2007 at 12:48:07 PM
 

One Problem with your Teory...

That freight train seen under the bridge, and subsequently pinned?  That was just sitting there, as it had been for the previous 3 days.  That was not a train in motion.

by Talon (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 4 comments) on Friday, August 3, 2007 at 5:48:05 PM
 

These reports and others say the train was running . . .

Chicago Tribune, United States - Aug 2, 2007
The bridge collapsed atop a freight train that was running on tracks along the river, according to Cable News Network.

Independent, UK - Aug 2, 2007
The collapse also occurred as a freight train was rumbling on the railway line along the river bank. A slab of masonry fell on one passing wagon, ...

Euronews.net, France - Aug 1, 2007
Several vehicles are also on fire and there are reports that a freight train passing underneath was been crushed by the impact. ...

Wyoming Tribune, WY - 13 hours ago
... Interstate 35W bridge, a major Minneapolis thoroughfare, fell more than 60 feet into the Mississippi River and on top of a passing freight train. ...

Charlotte Sun-Herald, FL - Aug 2, 2007
PS A fully loaded freight train was rumbling beneath the bridge at the time of collapse. Forty years of train traffic adjacent to the bridge supports ...

by Rev. Bill McGinnis (87 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 19 comments) on Friday, August 3, 2007 at 8:55:33 PM
 

The Reports...

... Are wrong.  That is a rail-yard there, not a rail-way.  I live in the area and drive that bridge on a daily basis.  Think about it, if that was a moving train and then 3 cars were pinned suddenly by a bridge, why is there no de-railment on either side of the bridge?  One answer, it was not moving.

<> As I said, having been through there that day and the two days prior, those cars were unmoved for DAYS.

by Talon (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 4 comments) on Saturday, August 4, 2007 at 1:53:49 AM
 

Remember...

Many of these same reports call I-35W the main artery connecting Minneapolis to St.Paul, when I-35W never comes anywhere NEAR St.Paul.

 <>Notice, you will find no StarTribune or Pioneer Press report saying there was a moving train, as they are local papers that know the area and know that train was not moving.  Just because the 'AP' sees some train cars, claim it's passing under based on that image when they write their article, and then all the papers print that same article across the nation unedited doesn't make the mistake in the report right.

by Talon (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 4 comments) on Saturday, August 4, 2007 at 2:04:38 AM
 

If you read my OpEd ..

you'll notice I mention the RR trestle.  IT is well built. I would cross that in preference, on foot, no railings, to the I-35 bridge.  Those trains have been moving freight on a poorly constructed bridge a very long time. The Minnesota Department of Transport of course bears SOME responsibilty in the long term maintenance, but we must not forget .. this was a federal project and they did a very poor job of planning.  And what's more, it was SO bad, people cottoned on to that fact.

 Again, the "cause" was a rush to put that highway through; people be damned.   It was a result of PORKBARRELING by HHHumphrey.  And that is true.

 I've been thinking about it, and I'll be the University of Minnesota paper, The Minnesota Daily, will have photos of our demonstrations against the feds (the HUD official coming to visit was our chance to get VOCAL) when they came after tearing up Seven Corners ... dating back to 1969.  That bridge has been a community flashpoint since it was built, carrying inappropriate amounts of people and ripping up all the community fiber that had built up NATURALLY over the years.  I had businesses on both sides of that river ...

 If I were in Minnesota, I would be out there organizing AGAIN .. this time all the mothers to keep these kids away from the highway. It is diabolic.  Always has been.

 The wiki entry on the bridge is full of  maps showing just how crazily they built it to accomodate developers . and that was before it got REALLY bad in that area of town.

by ladybroadoak (37 articles, 20 quicklinks, 12 diaries, 392 comments) on Saturday, August 4, 2007 at 1:45:39 AM
 

Google Earth

44°58′44″N, 93°14′42″W

On the north side, you will see how rail cars are constantly parked around/under the bridge. 

by Talon (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 4 comments) on Saturday, August 4, 2007 at 2:24:45 AM
 

Maybe Resonant Frequency Came From Jackhammers

It now appears to me that the reports about a moving freight train were wrong, and that the cars were actually parked motionless at the time of the collapse. The Minneapolis Star-Tribune has a photo of the bridge and freight cars taken from an airliner about three hours before the collapse, and this photo seems to show the freight cars in the same place they were in after the collapse. So this would indicate that they were not moving. (The URL is too long to be shown here.)

Nevertheless, I still suspect resonant frequency as the proximate cause (triggering event) of the collapse. Jackhammers were reportedly in use at the time, and they too could have been the source of the frequency. Believing that the train was in motion, as reported, I first thought that the train would be a stronger source of vibrations than the jackhammers. But if the train was not moving, the jackhammers become the prime suspect, in my (imperfect) opinion.  

 

by Rev. Bill McGinnis (87 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 19 comments) on Sunday, August 5, 2007 at 11:53:09 AM
 

Look again: it's a big, active railroad yard!

I took a look at the site of the parked freight cars under the north ramp of 35W on Google Maps, and this isn't just some little temporary parking place for a few freight cars! It looks to me like a big, active railroad yard, with fairly large groups of freight cars coming and going frequently, passing under the ramp and sending  their powerful vibrations into the foundation of the bridge. So who knows what might have actually been moving under the bridge at the time of collapse?  The next step would be to identify the name of the railroad operating the yard, and look at the records of trains movements on the day of the collapse. CNN? Minneapolis Star-Tribune?

If you go to Google Maps, set it to "hybrid," and enter this in the "search maps box:  979805, -93.242348 - you will see what I saw.

 

by Rev. Bill McGinnis (87 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 19 comments) on Monday, August 6, 2007 at 6:58:51 AM
 

Correct Google Map Location is 44.979805,-93.242348

Correct Google Map Location is 44.979805,-93.242348

by Rev. Bill McGinnis (87 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 19 comments) on Monday, August 6, 2007 at 7:26:06 AM