Kudos

to Dave Lindorff. He and David Swanson are heroes in my book.

by George Washington (77 articles, 24 quicklinks, 169 diaries, 185 comments) on Thursday, January 3, 2008 at 12:07:04 PM
 

Though desperately needed to restore the rule of law, or to

restore any semblance of accountability, impeachment would need to get its impetus from outside the established political framework. Our system is simply incapable of fixing itself. It's far too corrupt.

One can only be grateful for the few congresspersons willing to sign onto the different impeachment initiatives, for "hopeful signs" here and there; & for the journalism of people like Dave Lindorff.

But the balance of forces is not going to allow impeachment to go forward. Far too many powerful interests depend on the perceived legitimacy of the status quo. Attempting to impeach would call the credibility of the entire US Establishment into question -- and these people will only allow that to happen over their dead bodies.

Any serious examination of the crimes of Bush/Cheney would call into question the roles of the media and of both parties, & would directly portray the US government as guilty of serious (indeed, historic) war crimes. It is therefore clear that the US Establishment will resist any such examination, with all the resources at their command.

Note that the (virtual) impeachment of Nixon was carefully framed to portray him as a "bad apple" in an otherwise "good" system. It was thus possible to go after him without impugning the entire US Establishment. With the crimes of Bush-Cheney, by contrast, the whole system (the media, both parties, the Pentagon) would be exposed as criminal. A bunch of Congressmen who are basically part of (& agents for) the Establishment are clearly not going to undertake that kind of revealing examination.

Bush & Cheney can't be impeached, not because their crimes are not great enough, but because they are too great. Their crimes are basically the crimes of the US ruling class -- which basically put them in office (by fraud, let's recall) precisely to carry out those crimes.

by Richard Mynick (2 articles, 3 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 1168 comments) on Thursday, January 3, 2008 at 12:53:10 PM
 

I understand the sentiment, but it's defeatism

Of course many of the Bush/Cheney crimes are crimes of the ruling class. I would rate the invasion of Iraq in that category, since it was about imperialist control of the oil. Some of Nixon's crimes also rose to that level, he wasn't impeached for those--like the invasion of Cambodia. He did have articles of impeachment though relating to lesser crimes, like obstruction of justice. The same is likely to succeed against bush and Cheney, since they have crimes large and small. If the clamor for their impeachment grows, they will be tossed overboard before they do irreparable damage to the power elite and also before they do irrevocable damage to Republican party prospects. So I say push for hearings, so that as much of the abuse of power and criminality as possible can be exposed.

Say what you will about the Nixon impeachment--it is the only time in the period since the onset of the National Security State in 1946 that the national security state was stopped in its tracks or even rolled back a bit. So let's try again, and hope for the same effect.

Dave Lindorff

by Dave Lindorff (341 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 157 comments) on Thursday, January 3, 2008 at 1:06:21 PM
 

Powerful people

Saying that we should do nothing because of 'powerful forces' and/or 'powerful people' is tantamount to abandoment of our democratic system.  We must fight these powerful forces and people, and continue to fight them at every opportunity. 

Years ago we began to fight them on the local level.  It took 20 years, but we were finally successful.  Because of our success, their attempts to undo what we accomplished are not being successful.

Keep at it, folks.  W, the people will prevail. 

by Shirley Bianchi (10 articles, 0 quicklinks, 1 diaries, 95 comments) on Thursday, January 3, 2008 at 1:22:32 PM
 

"We" have forced the issue

The Constitution gives us "the people" that power....those who oppose will either lead, follow or get the hell out of the way... I wouldn't give them good odds at winning another term in 2008

Praises to Kucinich, Wexler, Gutierrez, Baldwin and now Michaud....who are actually doing the job they were elected for....representing the people

by Susan Nelsen (0 articles, 0 quicklinks, 0 diaries, 268 comments) on Thursday, January 3, 2008 at 1:40:31 PM
 

Good luck with all that ...

I sincerely hope this will come about but I fear that the system this time is just too far gone.

The elites have been perfecting their strategy since Nixon to make sure the same mistakes won't be made again. Not only have they taken over more of the legislative and media, the judiciary are infested with people of their ilk. The same people in this administration were around at the beginning and as entrenched as Cheney is I can't see him going down, unless he resigns due to health reasons with a pass on any charges, and as bad as the Bush family is I can't see them sacrificing the boy-king and serving him up with out something ugly going down.

I'm more pessimistic. I sense the powers-that-be will shoehorn Hillary in as the Dem candidate and it really doesn't matter who the Repub one will be, I then see an orchestrated attack propelling the fear factor shoving any move to impeach aside. The attack(s) don't have to be 9/11 scale. Just enough to have the press give it maximum effect. And if HC or a Repub gets in the elite still have the person they want and the wars continue. I would look for somewhere about 2 to 4 months before the election for some sort of an attack, or sooner depending if the threat of impeachment gains momentum.

I hope I'm wrong, but my instincts and history don't give me much reason for hope. It wouldn't be the first time elites would sacrifice innocents to further their agenda and get away with it. And as history as a judge they do so more often then not.

by Mr M (4 articles, 0 quicklinks, 12 diaries, 1436 comments) on Thursday, January 3, 2008 at 2:01:02 PM
 

There're a couple of different things going on here

relating to Pelosi, who sits on the issue of impeachment. One is that Nancy will be reelected no matter what, because constituencies don't throw out powerhouses. What pork will Sheehan bring to the district?

Secondly, I suspect that the light shining from a trial--even a trial that fails--will all too brilliantly illuminate Dem hands in cookie-jars as well as Republicans. Pelosi's knowledge of and acquiescence to torture is merely one example. The co-conspiratorial effect is all too obvious in a Democrat-controlled Congress that can't blow its own nose.

FDR blew into the presidency on the hurricane of the '29 crash. It may well be that the only way to demolish what has come to be an elitist power-structure is worldwide economic collapse.

The rich and powerful have been fine-tuning the screenplay for decades now and certainly we see the trailer for their movie in the current banking fraud.

by Jim Freeman (108 articles, 51 quicklinks, 222 diaries, 382 comments) on Sunday, January 6, 2008 at 10:04:03 AM