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Conducted by Michael Collins
March 29, 2009
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MC: Do you think that President Obama is reluctant to investigate and, presuming the findings we'd expect, prosecute Bush and others in his administration for their alleged crimes.
VB: President Obama was on the ABC news program This Week With George Stephanopoulos, and the issue came up about the prosecutions of the Bush administration, potential prosecutions, and he said words -- I can give you his exact words. He said that he was of "a belief that we need to look forward as opposed to looking backwards" ABC News, Jan. 11, 2009.. Now, the interpretation that has been placed on these words, and I agree with that interpretation, is that he does not intend to pursue George Bush or his administration for any crimes they may have committed.
This is in contradistinction to what he said months ago before he became president. He said words to the effect that if he became president, he would have his attorney general investigate the Bush administration to see if things that they had done involved crimes or just merely bad policy. He said if they involved crimes, he said no man is above the law, and the implication was that he would ask his attorney general to proceed forward, so he's changed his position.
I was mentioning the interpretation on his words. The article in The New York Times that quoted him: "President-elect Barack Obama signaled in an interview broadcast Sunday that he was unlikely to authorize a broad inquiry into Bush administration programs like domestic eavesdropping or the treatment of terrorism suspects." New York Times, Jan. 12, 2009
I have to say that I'm disappointed in the president on his apparent position that he doesn't want the Department of Justice to conduct a criminal investigation.
MC: What would you say to the president if you had the opportunity?
VB: If I were to speak to President Obama, I would inform him of one thing and advise him of a couple of other things. I'd inform him, and I guess this sounds a little sarcastic, but I would inform him that when he talks about only looking forward and not backwards, I agree that most of his efforts have to be towards the future. I'm not quarreling with him on that, but you can't forget the past.
When he says that he intends to give Bush a free pass simply because whatever crime Bush may have committed was in the past, I would inform him of something he already knows: that all criminal prosecutions, without exception and by definition, have to deal, obviously, with past criminal behavior. Obviously we cannot prosecute someone for a crime that they may commit in the future.
And if we prosecute for even petty theft in America, what do we do with Bush, who I'm very convinced took this nation to war under false pretenses and has caused incalculable death, horror, and suffering?
I would advise him of two things, kind of using his words against him. If indeed Obama's sole emphasis seems to be the future, I don't think anything could improve our image around the world more, restore our credibility more than prosecuting George Bush for his monumental crimes. We would be telling the world's people that what George Bush did in taking this nation to war on a lie against a sovereign nation like Iraq, without any provocation whatsoever, was not the real America. That was only George Bush's America. The real America would never do something like that. And then in the real America, no man is so high he is above the law, and even presidents have to be accountable for their crimes. So talking about the future, using President Obama's own emphasis, I think it would be very advisable to bring Bush to justice if, in fact, he's guilty, as I say he is.
Talking about the future, if we want to deter future presidents from taking this nation to another war under false pretenses, some president in the future that gets a funny thought, I think that deterrence would increase immeasurably if he knew what America did to George Bush, put him on trial for murder, and if he was convicted, of course, the punishment would either be life imprisonment or the imposition of the death penalty.
I gave you a long answer to the question, but I had always suspected that if there was going to be a prosecution in this place, it would be at the local level. The ideal venue is, in fact, the Department of Justice.
MC: Ultimately, isn't it the responsibility of the attorney general to determine the crimes that are investigated and what aren't? For example, if Obama called up Holder and said, "Lay off any prosecutions against the Bush crew," Holder may take that advice or he may not. But wouldn't he have to ignore the request?
