W.B.: No because they're not audited. They're not audited by the government anywhere. The government accounting office doesn't audit them at all. So they have no threat to being viewed as to how they spend money. The only thing that could happen is the IG internally and the NSA has to do something to get involved there, otherwise the government doesn't even look at how they spend money.
R.K.: That's insane. And it's, how much is the NSA budget?
W.B.: Overall I think it's a little over ten billion dollars a year but they also have influence over six maybe billion that are assigned to the service, the SIGINT services, the Army, Navy, Airforce, Marines, SIGINT services. That's the CSS part of NSA CSS. So sum total is probably sixteen to eighteen billion total.
R.K.: Wow. And that's what they admit to, right?
W.B.: As far as I know, yes. Or that's what has to a certain degree been exposed by Snowden. I mean he gave the NSA budget that a little over ten billion but he didn't have all of the figures there, it was a little bit larger so I'm not sure what he's missing there.
R.K.: That's amazing.
W.B.: There's some sort of subset of information was there; not the whole structure.
R.K.: Are there criminals operating at NSA?
W.B.: I certainly think some of them should be referred to the DOJ for criminal investigation but I have no confidence that anybody in the DOJ would in any way investigate them now.
R.K.: So what kind of -
W.B.: Even if they had clear evidence that they were swindling money out of the government or corrupting or doing fraud knowingly committing fraud. I don't think they'd do anything about it.
R.K.: So what kind of people should be investigated by the DOJ, if you could get them to investigate them, what would they be guilty of or accused of or investigated for?
W.B.: Well defrauding the government of money, yeah. I mean that's pretty clear. I mean all they'd have to do is look at all the financial tracks, but they'd have to do an audit. That's why they feel free, when they're not audited, that's where corruption comes in and it comes in in abundance clearly and they don't really think anybody is going to do anything about it anyway so -
R.K.: Are there others?
W.B.: And so far, by the way, I would point out they're right.
R.K.: Are there other areas in government that are not audited?