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NSA 30 Year Veteran, Whistleblower William Binney on Corrupt NSA-- the Inside Story-- Transcript

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W.B.: Well some of them do, I am sure.  Some of them would get multi-million dollar contracts for a year.

R.K.: Multi-million dollar contracts for a year.

W.B.: And you have to be fairly senior and have a lot of influence to get that kind of money though.

R.K.: Yeah well they're the ones who would make these sweet deals.

W.B.: Yup. 

R.K.: It sounds like it's an incredible corrupt and broken institution.  

W.B.: Yes, in many ways that's absolutely true.  

R.K.: Now, I ask you about what it costs to build Thin Thread, your program for tracking calls and I ask it because the next step was what it was replaced with.  How much did they spend on the replacement?

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W.B.: Well they never really replaced it but the one attempt that they made which was Trail Blazer that was a little over four billion dollars but it didn't produce anything so they started a replacement for that which was Turbulence and that one was running four to five hundred million a year in nine separate programs.  

R.K.: Wow.

W.B.: So I still don't know that they've replaced it at all.  Except that they have now purchased a [inaudible 44:28] devices   to replace the front end acquisition of data but they didn't do the back end analyst part yet, so that's why they're storing everything, they're waiting to have some process come in, that's what the White House big data initiative was which is going to be perhaps a quarter billion a year they're spending on that to try to get algorithms to go through all the data that they have collected from these devices and figure out what's important for people to look at, so that's what they're doing now.

R.K.: How is that going?

W.B.: Well I don't think that's going very well for them at all because I don't think they have anybody who knows how to put that kind of program together.  

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R.K.: You know, what I have learned, I have worked with a programmer to custom-design the content management system for my website, and we have been building it over I guess nine years now and in the past I have worked with other programmers on biomedical software and I have learned that one programmer can do a project for ten times the cost that another programmer can do it for, and it sounds like you were the guy who could do it for one-tenth the price or less, one-fortieth of the price 

W.B.: Yeah, it's even -

R.K.: two percent of the price.  I mean, it's amazing that they spent so much more and it seems to me that it's in with this reciprocity thing where people bring in projects with the anticipation that they're going to leave and get hired and get bonuses.  Is there any system at NSA to prevent abuse of that?

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Rob Kall has spent his adult life as an awakener and empowerer-- first in the field of biofeedback, inventing products, developing software and a music recording label, MuPsych, within the company he founded in 1978-- Futurehealth, and founding, organizing and running 3 conferences: Winter Brain, on Neurofeedback and consciousness, Optimal Functioning and Positive Psychology (a pioneer in the field of Positive Psychology, first presenting workshops on it in 1985) and Storycon Summit Meeting on the Art Science and Application of Story-- each the first of their kind.  Then, when he found the process of raising people's consciousness and empowering them to take more control of their lives  one person at a time was too slow, he founded which has been the top search result on Google for the terms liberal news and progressive opinion for several years. Rob began his Bottom-up Radio show, broadcast on WNJC 1360 AM to Metro Philly, also available on iTunes, covering the transition of our culture, business and world from predominantly Top-down (hierarchical, centralized, authoritarian, patriarchal, big)  to bottom-up (egalitarian, local, interdependent, grassroots, archetypal feminine and small.) Recent long-term projects include a book, Bottom-up-- The Connection Revolution, debillionairizing the planet and the Psychopathy Defense and Optimization Project. 

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Over 200 podcasts are archived for downloading here, or can be accessed from iTunes. Rob is also published regularly on the

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People like Mr. Binney are the True American Heros... by Paul Solger on Saturday, Feb 1, 2014 at 1:46:01 PM
Mr. Binney is a "hero" and a patriot in many mind... by Paul Repstock on Saturday, Feb 1, 2014 at 6:57:34 PM
Wow. That was an eye opener.  Time to tear ... by Bob Davey on Saturday, Feb 1, 2014 at 8:37:43 PM
The issue of who controls information is so much ... by Susan Lee Schwartz on Sunday, Feb 2, 2014 at 10:45:38 AM
The link provided is awesome. The video cartoon im... by Paul Repstock on Sunday, Feb 2, 2014 at 11:14:15 AM
Susan..or anyone: Please take the video "The Hang... by Paul Repstock on Sunday, Feb 2, 2014 at 11:49:02 AM
Rob - This is a very important interview. Please k... by lila york on Sunday, Feb 2, 2014 at 5:14:13 PM
Excellent and resourceful interview. I've long won... by Jon Shafer on Wednesday, Feb 5, 2014 at 11:51:24 PM