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No comments, In Series: Daniel Quinn; Rethinking Civilization; Podcast & 2 part Transcript


The Rob Kall Bottom Up Radio Show Podcast

Daniel Quinn, Author of Ishmael, on Invisible Success and Memes We Live By

Podcast submitted by Rob Kall

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Headlined to H2 4/11/13
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Bio, from wikipedia:

Daniel Quinn is an American writer popularly described as an environmentalist and best known for his novel Ishmael (published in 1992), which won the Turner Tomorrow Fellowship Award in 1991. Quinn does not, however, identify himself as an "environmentalist", criticizing the term for creating a false dichotomy that frames the environment as somehow separate from human life. [2] Quinn considers himself a cultural critic[3] and specifically identifies his philosophy as new tribalism.

From Daniel's Ishmael website:

Mr. Quinn is best known as the author of Ishmael, the novel that in 1991 won the Turner Tomorrow Fellowship, established to encourage authors to seek "creative and positive solutions to global problems."  Ishmael  has been in print continuously since its publication in 1992 and has been made available in more than 25 languages. Thoroughout the U.S. and Canada and in other countries as well,  Ishmael  is used as a text in a broad range of classes that include anthropology, ecology, history, literature, philosophy, ethics, biology, and psychology, at age levels from middle school through graduate level.

very, VERY rough Interview notes

mostly questions to give you a tease so you'll LISTEN to the interview-- not an edited set of neat notes. 

Ishmael is a book that every person should read. 

How would you describe Ishmael?

Did you write the book in response to the Turner Tomorrow Fellowship Award, with the idea of  creating a hopeful vision. 

What were you attempting to accomplish with Ishmael-- what message?

Going back and forth in our discussions about our interview, you came up with a new essay-- The Invisibility of Success. Can you talk about it?

This success does not seem to be such a good thing" to most of the people.

What about religion? It seems that one of the reasons civilizations evangelize and convert is religion.

So, you have this idea of the Invisibility of success, that leads people to have the inability to reject the inevitability of Civilization, which has become a real problem. 

Do you think there is a future for humanity beyond civilization?

Do you think that the next stage of evolution, spiraling up, would be a more bottom up way of being?

Law in Italy-- 

What were some of the things you learned from Aboriginal culture?

We know now that the San Bushmen of the Kalahari work so much less than we do-- just a few hours a day. 

You mentioned that Oprah asked you a question you couldn't answer at the time. What was the question. What are leavers and takers?

Daniel, who are your attackers?

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Rob Kall is executive editor, publisher and website architect of, Host of the Rob Kall Bottom Up Radio Show (WNJC 1360 AM), and publisher of, President of Futurehealth, Inc, and an inventor . He is also published regularly on the

Listen to over 200 of Rob's Podcast interviews here.

Rob is, with the first media winner of the Pillar Award for supporting Whistleblowers and the first amendment.

With his experience as architect and founder of a technorati top 100 blog, he is also a new media / social media consultant and trainer for corporations, non-profits, entrepreneurs and authors.

Rob is a frequent Speaker on the bottom-up revolution, politics, The art, science and power of story, heroes and the hero's journey and Positive Psychology. He is a campaign consultant specializing in tapping the power of stories for issue positioning, stump speeches and debates, and optimizing tapping the power of new media. Watch me speaking on Bottom up economics at the Occupy G8 Economic Summit, here.

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