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The Rob Kall Bottom Up Radio Show Podcast

Carne Ross; The Leaderless Revolution

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Headlined to H4 11/13/12


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Carne Ross is the founder and director of Independent Diplomat, a diplomatic advisory group.  Carne Ross taught in Zimbabwe before attending the University of Exeter where he studied economics and politics. He joined the British foreign service in 1989. Ross's testimony in the Butler Review directly contradicted the British position on the justification behind the invasion of Iraq. He resigned when the UK went to war in Iraq.

raw interview notes-- very raw

these are mostly notes on the questions I asked. 

 You told Bill Moyers, back in April,  "We're almost at a level of paradigm shift. GOvernments will not provide the answer, no matter how well meaning they may be. "

advocating something with some similarities to anarchism. 

Pact between citizen and government, -- you refer to Popper

Failure of government to be able to deal with complexity

quote about terrorists and criminal most effective international networks"

"in order to fight terrorism most effectively, government must...

How is your solution similar and dissimilar from anarchism?

"order is created from the bottom."

You talk about the failure of government in trying to ...

anarchy vs institutions-- institutions protect us from ourselves.

Government tries to simplify.

Four ideas-

1increasinginly interconnected systems

2-action and education

3-Engagement and discussion

4- Agency   

My goodness you trust people. Maybe that's why you left government.

4- Agency-- 

You strongly criticize government but I don't get the impression that you are Libertarian thinking. 

(He discusses libertarianism vs anarchhism)

Our primary obligation is to each other, to society, to the community, our duty is to reduce suffering. 

Occupy and Mondragon-- your thoughts?

Your chapter, Kill the King". about killing top down, killing hierarchy, killing patriarchy

him: in chess there's only one goal, killing the king-- solving the problem

Kill the king-- 

9 principles:

1- excavate your convictions       know what you care about.

2-Who's got the money who's got the gun       

3- act as if the means are the end (a quote from Ghandi)

   lesser of two evilism

4 refer to the cosmopolitan criterion

5-address those suffering the most (Karl Popper)

Happiness, not measurable, but suffering is. 

6 consult and negotiate

7 big picture little deeds.

   my website

8 use non-violence 

9- Kill the king

My model of bottom up-- a million years of 

We're almost at a level of paradigm shift

Popper talks about how people who are invested in the old paradigm fight the new paradigm and it's proponents viciously. 

Distinction between democracy and current form of govt.

You've said we have a Broken Capitalist, Top Down leader model.HOw do you see it being replaced?

DO you think it wold be possible to have an institution that helps localization?

"All institutions are ultimately corrupted."

UN as example" 

What furthest edges of your vision of leaderless revolution have evolved since you started writing this book?

What a leaderless, government less, institution less world look like?

You write about fascism-- p215.

Can you make a living doing this-- do you work, applying these ideas?

Quote P 216 


Israel Palestine

Told Steven Colbert that you're calling for a new kind of banking. 

Journey that got you to your current philosophy. 

Israel Palestine, GLobalization. 

Government is fundamentally detached from the reality it is trying to manage. It cannot manage highly complex events. We make these assumptions about the world that are grossly simplistic.

We ignored alternatives to War. War should be the last alternative 

Economic sanctions". harm the wrong people " grotesquely.

Too my shame" worked on sanctions"

Self-organized action-- most effective mechanism for political change

OWS working group alternative banking you called it "the occupy bank" on Bill Moyers"

the book is about a method. 

We need to move from words and protest to action-- that is the most powerful form of political change.

Politicians see "get ME elected and I will make change.

sterile, inconsequential act of voting. 

Imagine the world without institutions. 

You hate hierarchy. 

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Rob Kall is editor-in-chief, publisher and site architect of, President of Futurehealth, Inc, and an inventor. He hosts the Rob Kall Bottom Up Radio Show, aired in the Metro Philly area on AM 1360, WNJC. Over 200 podcasts are archived for downloading here, or can be accessed from iTunes. Rob is also published regularly on the

Rob Kall Wikipedia Page

Rob is, with the first media winner of the Pillar Award for supporting Whistleblowers and the first amendment.

See more Rob Kall articles here and, older ones, here. To learn more about Rob and, check out A Voice For Truth - ROB KALL | OM Times Magazine and this article. For Rob's work in non-political realms mostly before 2000, see his C.V..  and here's an article on the Storycon Summit Meeting he founded and organized for eight years. Press coverage in the Wall Street Journal: Party's Left Pushes for a Seat at the Table

Here is a one hour radio interview where Rob was a guest- on Envision This, and here is the transcript. 

To watch Rob having a lively conversation with John Conyers, then Chair of the House Judiciary committee, click hereWatch Rob speaking on Bottom up economics at the Occupy G8 Economic Summit, here.

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This is a fundamental misconception with libertari... by Joe Giambrone on Wednesday, Nov 14, 2012 at 1:58:14 PM